Packers Getting Left Behind By Elite -McGinn

[El Duderino]

We surely could have won that game, but i'd take the 49ers overall roster any day over the Packers roster.

I would actually still take our roster over the 49ers, but that is in large part due to Aaron Rodgers.

I think we have them beat at QB, RB (as Gore is aging, plus I think we are just deeper in general) and WR. I also think we may have an edge on them at CB as we are both talented and deep at that spot.

I think the OL comparison is much closer than in years past with them. Getting Bulaga, Sherrod and Tretter back to add to an already good line is going to be huge.

They have us beat at TE as Davis is a legit stud. Obviously their DL and their entire LB crew put ours to shame. I assume they also have us beat out at S as well.

But in the end, I'll still take Rodgers. It is going to be a very tough decision for them when Kaepernick wants to be paid $20+ million dollars... and it is going to cause them to lose 2-3 impact players... much like the Ravens this year when they gave Flacco huge money.

I disagree because i was just talking about this year. Going forward though, i'd likely still take them, but then it's a closer call.

To me, the gap between Kaepernick and Rodgers isn't enough for the gap between their defense and the Packers defense over at least the next two years or so unless Ted hits some defensive home runs ASAP. Keep in mind Kaepernick is only in his second season as a starter after playing in a college running offense. He has all of the attributes needed to become an upper tier QB. Great size. Big arm. Smart. Tough. Elite athletic ability. Isn't turnover prone.

Gore is good, but can be replaced given their great OL. Put say Starks behind that line, if he stays healthy, i think he'd out-rush Gore.

[Kerb Hohl]

We surely could have won that game, but i'd take the 49ers overall roster any day over the Packers roster.

I would actually still take our roster over the 49ers, but that is in large part due to Aaron Rodgers.

I think we have them beat at QB, RB (as Gore is aging, plus I think we are just deeper in general) and WR. I also think we may have an edge on them at CB as we are both talented and deep at that spot.

I think the OL comparison is much closer than in years past with them. Getting Bulaga, Sherrod and Tretter back to add to an already good line is going to be huge.

They have us beat at TE as Davis is a legit stud. Obviously their DL and their entire LB crew put ours to shame. I assume they also have us beat out at S as well.

But in the end, I'll still take Rodgers. It is going to be a very tough decision for them when Kaepernick wants to be paid $20+ million dollars... and it is going to cause them to lose 2-3 impact players... much like the Ravens this year when they gave Flacco huge money.

I disagree because i was just talking about this year. Going forward though, i'd likely still take them, but then it's a closer call.

To me, the gap between Kaepernick and Rodgers isn't enough for the gap between their defense and the Packers defense over at least the next two years or so unless Ted hits some defensive home runs ASAP. Keep in mind Kaepernick is only in his second season as a starter after playing in a college running offense. He has all of the attributes needed to become an upper tier QB. Great size. Big arm. Smart. Tough. Elite athletic ability. Isn't turnover prone.

Gore is good, but can be replaced given their great OL. Put say Starks behind that line, if he stays healthy, i think he'd out-rush Gore.

As I've stated in a few other posts, I was looking at SF and Seattle. The thing they've got going for them is that Kaepernick and Wilson still have improvement to make.

However, the Packers are going to lose Finley who was already gone and maybe James Jones along with Raji who wasn't a huge impact. They should be able to pay Nelson and Cobb and draft going forward. The Packers are also getting "free agents" like Hayward, Worthy, Sherrod, Bulaga, Clay back from injury.

Starting next year the names that are going to come up for SF and Seattle are huge. San Francisco can give Kaep his 10-15 million raise next year and sign Aldon Smith after next year. That's going to basically put them at the cap the next two years. They'll lose Whitner, maybe Iupati, and have no excess spending money.

I think SF is set up fairly well. They've signed Brooks, Bowman, Staley, and other guys to nice deals. Other than Whitner who is almost for sure gone they'll have minimal room for Crabtree, Vernon, and others in coming years.

Seattle I think is going to be good next year but then REALLY start to feel it.

I think the Packers are going to be the steadying force in there. The next year, maybe two I wouldn't bet on GB to be better than those guys but as long as Ted gets a few good players in this next draft, we should compete with SEA/SF these next two years and then really start to move ahead of them. 2014/2015 aren't "waiting" years but if we have the same health I think we'll have a good shot at being better than them.

[Kerb Hohl]

Does anyone have a good site for cap numbers for a particular year and some NFL capology lessons?

[El Duderino]

I just looked at San Francisco and Seattle's salary situations in the upcoming years. I will agree with the fact that we've been behind the curve the last 2 years because TT's drafting and lack of free agency has been a bit less than his standards.

That said, SF and Seattle better hope they win it this year. They are going to start to really get decimated by the cap starting next season. I'll be disappointed if after this year we don't play way better than those teams over the next decade. We have a huge advantage starting the day after this coming Super Bowl.

The Packers cap situation could get dicey also though.

1. The huge extensions for Aaron/Clay kick in next year

2. If we are able to resign Shields, he's going to get paid well

3. After next year, both of Nelson/Cobb are unrestricted free agents. One of Ted's best moves was getting Jordy to sign that really cheap extension before he blew up. That won't happen again now that he's proven to be so good.

4. If Bulaga plays well next year, he'll be in line for a pay day.

5. It remains to be seen if any of guys like EDS, Raji, Neal, etc get resigned and for just how much.

Bakhtiari continuing to develop would be huge. Having even just a solid starting LT on a cheap rookie deal is huge for any team's cap.

In the end, i don't see the cap being the biggest reason as to why any of the best teams in the NFC will continue to thrive or fall back some. Pretty much all good NFL teams reach a cap point where they have to regularly decide between keeping and losing players who are quality contributors.

Then what separates the upper tier front offices/general managers from just the good ones are which ones can make the most right decisions on who to pay and who to let walk. On who consistently drafts well so as to better fill holes left by veterans who had to be let go for financial and/or performance reasons. Who can better make savvy under the radar signings or trades.

The hard NFL cap and draft setup are designed in many ways to help bad teams and make it harder for really good teams to remain that good. So it generally takes having a high quality QB and front office to avoid falling back. We certainly have the QB and overall i think Ted is a quality GM, but he simply has to fix the defense so that it's at least solid to go with a top 5 offense. The defense has been a net negative for to much of Thompson's tenure. In three playoff losses, opposing teams have scored 51, 37, and 45 points.

[Kerb Hohl]

El Dude, basically what I was saying is the extensions are there and we should be able I keep who we want. With Rogers money on the books we already have less money committed than Seattle.

Seattle has more committed the next 2 years and that is without Wilson money or Sherman. They have a ton of guys coming due.

The Packers may lose a Bulaga or something but Seattle is really going to start losing guys and fast.

If we want to keep Nelson and Cobb we should be able to.

[El Duderino]

I get your main point

For me at least, it's more about Ted than what say Seattle does over the next few years. Any year where Rodgers is healthy and with the improved running game, it's a near lock that the Packers will have at least around a top 5 offense. Hell, they finished 5th in total offense this year even with Tolzien/Flynn starting 7 games. Pretty amazing and yet another reason why i don't buy the mantra of some here that McCarthy is holding back the offense.

If Ted can put together a defense that's just around average/middle of the pack instead of below average to bad, the Packers should be one of the legit favorites in any given year. It's just hard for any team to make it through the playoffs and win a title with a bad defense because even with them having a good offense, so will most other playoff teams. Eventually though that bad defense gets exposed and a playoff exit follows.

So while i do wish that Ted wasn't completely against using free agency or trades to possibly plug a few holes here and there like say not going into a season with a scrub like MD Jennings as his starting safety, he then leaves himself in a spot where he can't ignore those weaknesses in the draft and/or whiff much on picks because there ends up being no other options except playing guys who suck.

Considering how bad the front seven and safety play was last year, if Thompson again ignores free agency completely, he's going to have to have a great draft and see guys like Perry/Jones have really good years if the defense is going to be quite a bit better. That and Clay staying healthy for once.

[eagle13]

DEFENSE

BEST CASE
Matthews plays at 100% for full season.
Neal or Perry takes ownership of other OLB - delivers great pass rush & run D
The other improves and gives quality breathers

Don Butler or Takeo Spikes is signed as ILB next to Hawk.
Lattimore improves - gives breathers. He & Jones are great on ST.

T Cody is signed to team w/ Pickett & 4th rd pick at NT and own the middle
Jones & Boyd & 2nd rd pick excel as base DE. Wilson supplies depth.
Jones & Daniels & 2nd(same) thrive as inside rushers

Bernard Pollard or Malcom Jenkins is signed & Hyde moves to S.
Burnett rebounds and the 3 of them lock down S and dime back.
Hayward returns 100% at Nickel and resumes interceptions
Tramon & Shields play their best coverage and tackling.
House improves as CB – gives breathers – is great on ST.

WORST CASE
(short of everyone going on IR)

Matthews “has” a hamstring and misses half the season.
Neal is not resigned and delivers great pass rush & run D for another team.
Perry plays run OK but fails to pressure QB & is complete liability in coverage

Pack goes with Jones as ILB next to Hawk.
Lattimore while makes some big hits often blows assignment & gives up big plays.

Pickett declines rapidly and rookie is too raw at NT
Jones & Boyd show flashes but are inconsistent as base DE
Daniels has a hamstring and doesn’t thrive as inside rushers

No veteran is signed & Hyde isn’t moved to S. Rookie is good but isn’t ready to take command thus Burnett flails in confusion again.
Hayward returns at only 80% and doesn’t get the interceptions
Both Tramon & Shields cover well but tackling regresses to putrid.
House stagnates and doesn’t get better.

[Kerb Hohl]

The Patriots didn't just add Blount, they signed Edelman who caught 105 passes and traded for Talib who is their best corner.

Btw they had Edelman all along. He was a QB draft pick years ago that turned into a WR. You're probably thinking if Amendola.

[MickeyDavis]

Does anyone have a good site for cap numbers for a particular year and some NFL capology lessons?

http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team= ... &Year=2014

You can access the other teams too. Goes through 2016

[vegaspacker]

DEFENSE

BEST CASE
Matthews plays at 100% for full season.
Neal or Perry takes ownership of other OLB - delivers great pass rush & run D
The other improves and gives quality breathers

Don Butler or Takeo Spikes is signed as ILB next to Hawk.
Lattimore improves - gives breathers. He & Jones are great on ST.

T Cody is signed to team w/ Pickett & 4th rd pick at NT and own the middle
Jones & Boyd & 2nd rd pick excel as base DE. Wilson supplies depth.
Jones & Daniels & 2nd(same) thrive as inside rushers

Bernard Pollard or Malcom Jenkins is signed & Hyde moves to S.
Burnett rebounds and the 3 of them lock down S and dime back.
Hayward returns 100% at Nickel and resumes interceptions
Tramon & Shields play their best coverage and tackling.
House improves as CB – gives breathers – is great on ST.

WORST CASE
(short of everyone going on IR)

Matthews “has” a hamstring and misses half the season.
Neal is not resigned and delivers great pass rush & run D for another team.
Perry plays run OK but fails to pressure QB & is complete liability in coverage

Pack goes with Jones as ILB next to Hawk.
Lattimore while makes some big hits often blows assignment & gives up big plays.

Pickett declines rapidly and rookie is too raw at NT
Jones & Boyd show flashes but are inconsistent as base DE
Daniels has a hamstring and doesn’t thrive as inside rushers

No veteran is signed & Hyde isn’t moved to S. Rookie is good but isn’t ready to take command thus Burnett flails in confusion again.
Hayward returns at only 80% and doesn’t get the interceptions
Both Tramon & Shields cover well but tackling regresses to putrid.
House stagnates and doesn’t get better.

Hate to be 'that' guy, but someone has to be him. Should we consider selling very high on Clay Matthews?

[Newz]

If we got rid of Matthews, we wouldn't be selling very high on him at all. He is coming off of an injury plagued season and has a hand injury that apparently is very easy to aggrivate.

I'm not sure his value could get much lower to be honest.

[Godgers]

Mathews is a top 3 defensive player when healthy in the NFL but he is never healthy. Hard to pay someone max money like Mathews when at most you get 8 games from him. Thought has crossed my mind about trading him, but it would never happen so no point even thinking about something like that.

I feel this whole team is injury prone though. I expect Lacy to be on IR next year followed by a handful of other players like Nelson and Tramon. If you have a good year and stay healthy the Packers gods will put you on IR the next season.

[humanrefutation]

If we got rid of Matthews, we wouldn't be selling very high on him at all. He is coming off of an injury plagued season and has a hand injury that apparently is very easy to aggrivate.

I'm not sure his value could get much lower to be honest.

He's still widely regarded as one of the premier defensive players in the league. But that perception will diminish considerably if he has another injury plagued season, no doubt.

Either way, I wouldn't trade him, and I don't think there are many teams out there who'd want to assume his contract anyway.

[Newz]

If we got rid of Matthews, we wouldn't be selling very high on him at all. He is coming off of an injury plagued season and has a hand injury that apparently is very easy to aggrivate.

I'm not sure his value could get much lower to be honest.

He's still widely regarded as one of the premier defensive players in the league. But that perception will diminish considerably if he has another injury plagued season, no doubt.

Either way, I wouldn't trade him, and I don't think there are many teams out there who'd want to assume his contract anyway.

I agree with both things you have said. But I wouldn't call it "selling high" when you are selling him after his worst year as a pro.

The NFL is weird like that though. A lot of these guys like Clay Matthews are difficult to trade even if you want to because of how tight teams usually are against the cap, the complexity of the system and the depth/stars you could lose from your current stable of players... not to mention you have to give up picks in order to get a player like that. In Matthews' case I am guessing we could probably get a first and a later round selection tacked on if we moved him... if someone wanted to take him on.

But I agree I'd keep him, hope he's healthy and if he is you have one of the premier defenders in the league.

[Ayt]

From a talent standpoint, trading Matthews would be a very bad idea. With the NFL rules, we'd also have to eat the remaining 16.4M of his signing bonus and apply it towards the cap this year.

No. I don't think we should trade him.

[eagle13]

Trade Matthews why? So we get an additional shot at another Perry Sherrod Jones?
He and the Team will leave this injury thing behind and be great!

[Kerb Hohl]

http://m.jsonline.com/more/sports/241411371.htm

[Newz]

http://m.jsonline.com/more/sports/241411371.htm

TT is awesome.

Happy to hear he is sticking to his guns and wants to continue to build a team the right way.

[trwi7]

I wouldn't listen to a penis face like McGinn either.

[Kerb Hohl]

Sorry about the mobile link last night.

Yeah, nothing surprising in that article. TT is always going to say that.

Even if he went out and signed 4-5 "known" free agents this year he'd still tell you they evaluated them the same way and saw those guys as value pickups.