Badgers 2015 QB

[Kerb Hohl]

Who the **** is voting for Stave? He's an abomination.

He had a down year due to not getting to brush up on creampuffs, get the extra practice, and a loss of playmakers at WR.

All of that said, I agree, he's a bottom 1/4 of the Power 5 quarterback. That said, he has the ability to do enough to win. I am not calling him a Tebow-esque "winner," rather, he has the arm strength to beat 9 in the box. I would absolutely love it if somebody beat him out, but I'll trust that unless Gillins has taken a major step, nobody is going to.

Don't want to pat myself on the back (pats self on back) but it was pretty clear that when Stave came in vs. Northwestern it was pretty clear that even through the stupid interception, he showed why he's their best option and it was outlined in that game thread. I liked McEvoy if they used his strengths more than they did, but they did not and it was abundantly clear that they'd be tough to beat with a QB that could hit a tight end for 14 yards on 3rd and 12 just once or twice in a game as well as hit a guy open on a play action off and on.

Again, I'd love it if Gillins was good enough to upstage him or Kafentzis is seen as a prodigy as he steps onto the practice field. Until then, they'll have to go with the guy that has NCAA arm strength with severe accuracy and mobility flaws.

You said "who the **** is voting for Stave?" How about "who the **** is voting for any of the guys that couldn't beat out Stave?"

[humanrefutation]

Who the **** is voting for Stave? He's an abomination.

He had a down year due to not getting to brush up on creampuffs, get the extra practice, and a loss of playmakers at WR.

That may be true, but he also made several terrible decisions with the ball, seemed to crash under pressure, and couldn't find open receivers. He didn't have the best talent around him in the receiving corp, to be sure, but those receivers would have looked a lot better with a competent quarterback as well.

You said "who the **** is voting for Stave?" How about "who the **** is voting for any of the guys that couldn't beat out Stave?"

The question in the thread is "Who do you want to be the Badgers starting QB in 2015?" Not "Who will be the Badgers starting QB in 2015?"

I want a QB who is competent enough not to make mistakes with the ball and who is confident enough to find and hit open receivers. That isn't Stave.

And to say that no one else could beat out Stave assumes that they were all given an adequate chance to do so. I don't know if Andersen necessarily gave a fair shot to Houston or Gillins to beat him out. I have a feeling that Chryst is going to have a better influence on the offense than Ludwig or Andersen ever had.

[Kerb Hohl]

Andersen definitely would have given a shot to those other guys. Everyone thinks he **** Stave over.

QB rating in the NCAA is not a great stat, but here is 2013. He finished neck-and-neck with an NFL QB that even started a game and just behind a guy (Lynch) that was at the Heisman ceremony (yes, I know a lot of that was due to rushing). Also was in front of Connor Cook.

http://www.teamrankings.com/college-foo ... ating-ncaa (navigate to 2013).

Point being, and this was my point after 2013, is that people sometimes undervalue what they actually have in Stave. He's not as bad as anyone has been saying in comparison to the general NCAA QB. This year, things were skewed a bit, but he's much better than everyone has been saying for a long time, but because he throws frustrating interceptions, he "sucks" and must be replaced.

And again, if Gillins won the job, I'd love it because that means the ceiling could be a bit higher.

As for Bart Houston: Maybe Chryst pulls something out of him since he was the recruiter of Houston I believe, but just because he was overvalued on the recruiting sites doesn't mean he's that good. I believe he got hurt and that has cost him a bit but he has NEVER even been in a QB race. You guys don't think that Chryst, BB, BA, GA, Ludwig, whomever might have seen what all of the message board posters see? If he's passed through several coaches and has been behind Stave for 3 years, he's, you know, probably not as good as Stave.

[humanrefutation]

Andersen definitely would have given a shot to those other guys. Everyone thinks he **** Stave over.

Nah. That's a line of thinking that's been pushed around here, but Stave's performance justifies his being "**** over."

QB rating in the NCAA is not a great stat, but here is 2013. He finished neck-and-neck with an NFL QB that even started a game and just behind a guy (Lynch) that was at the Heisman ceremony (yes, I know a lot of that was due to rushing). Also was in front of Connor Cook.

http://www.teamrankings.com/college-foo ... ating-ncaa (navigate to 2013).

He was better in 2013, that is true. But where did he rank this past year? I'm still scrolling down.

Despite having possibly the best running back in this program's history and a series of 8 man fronts this season, he managed to have a 53% completion percentage, have a .9 TD/INT ratio, and have a 58.1 QB Rating. And his numbers against the worst teams in this conference - Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Northwestern - were not that much better.

So, no, I'm not ignoring the past. I'm focused on the present. And presently, he's terrible.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm a defender of GA in most rights. He **** up some stuff but I think since he is the "latest ex-girlfriend" he is getting more **** than he deserves. He also didn't fit the mold of UW coach so people were pissed off more often at him for non-existent stuff. As of now, I won't miss him, but I think he was a decent coach in his own way.

That said, the common idea is that Stave got a bit screwed in the whole early season situation so I'm asking how if he sucked and got screwed over by GA (read that last sentence again, lol), that how does Bart Houston not get a shot?

Point was that Stave didn't get the stat-padding start to the season that most QBs do to add to that rating. He was also excellent when it mattered against Purdue, Minnesota, and Iowa. He was good last year against Ohio State, Arizona State, Minnesota, BYU, and other games was OK but wasn't needed.

He's a flawed QB and I wish they had better. However, the list of players that can be competent in the 2-minute drill of a close game (he's been pretty good at comebacks), hit an occasional 3rd and 12, and hit open guys deep every so often on play action, right now -- that list only has one name on it. McEvoy, who probably wasn't utilized correctly, cannot do this. The coaches have deemed that Stave is better at this than Houston. I'd love it if Gillins showed it.

Sure, if the poll is "who do you want to be the QB" with no bounds on expectations, I hope it's Kafentzis and his wins 3 Heismans. What's the point of that? I also hope Jordan Fredrick wins the Belitnikoff Award. In terms of what it will realistically be, it will be the guy that has performed/won the competition over the past 2-3 years, which is Stave. He's done it beyond multiple coaches as well. I think he's good enough to win them 10 games again. If you think Paul Chryst should play DJ Gillins even if, in PC's estimation, he'll win them less games, then by all means, light your pitchfork and go to his front door.

[HKPackFan]

I also thought the poll initially said WHO do you THINK will be the starter, not necessarily who you want.


I don't know who I want, the young recruits I don't know anything about. Regarding Bart it seems weird he hasn't been able to beat out the awfulness of Stave/Mcevoy?!! We saw some pretty awful play this passed year and the coaches are not blind, yet Bart never showed enough to beat those 2 when the bar was so so so very low.

I think Stave wins by default but not very promising...

Maybe Gillins gets a chance to prove something this spring??

[ReasonablySober]

Stave is garbage I wouldn't trust on a good D-II team. It's beyond laughable (sad?) this is the caliber of quarterback the Badgers, a perennial B1G contender, has been playing.

[Kerb Hohl]

Stave is garbage I wouldn't trust on a good D-II team. It's beyond laughable (sad?) this is the caliber of quarterback the Badgers, a perennial B1G contender, has been playing.

You're overrating the caliber of quarterback around the rest of the power 5. It's true that a team that is top 20 on a yearly basis should be better, but he's the best they have and is "good enough."

It says a lot about the other guys if Stave is garbage and none of them can beat him out. I recall you being excited when they went to McEvoy and so was I. I obviously want better, but in the case that there is not a stud prospect to try out (McEvoy was worth a try), Stave is better than most give him credit for. To me, he seems like he has the arm talent to look great for 6 out of 10 passes. The other 4, who knows, and that is his problem. We've had noodle-arm guys like Phillips or McEvoy who would only hit the open WR probably twice out of 10 tries (and wasn't allowed to run as much as they should have) so Stave is the guy.

Regardless, to win 10 games, the Badgers need a guy that can hit a TE on 3rd and 12 just twice in a game and hit an open WR deep on play action. Seems simple, but Stave as it stands has proven he can do that relatively consistently but not enough to be very good. Still, that's the best that we have that we know of.

[Ron Swanson]

If Joel Stave is the Badgers starting QB come opening day in 2015, I fear it will be a wasted season. It's a pretty bold statement, sure. Alabama is going to murder him in front of a national TV audience. I just want someone, anyone else who might stand a chance, and that someone is not Joel Stave.

I can't even begin to understand how people can still rationalize him being "good enough" to take a D-1 team anywhere meaningful. No, he's not **** "good enough". He never has been. We only won as many games and beat an SEC team in a bowl game because Melvin Gordon gave us one of the top 5 college RB seasons in history and our defense under Aranda (discounting the title game) massively exceeded expectations and kept us in ball games all year.

It just, depressingly, reminds me of the same mentality that Bears fans had with Jay Cutler over the years. I just want to ask every time "At what point do you realize that he's terrible and you're not going anywhere with him as your QB?"

[Kerb Hohl]

If Joel Stave is the Badgers starting QB come opening day in 2015, I fear it will be a wasted season. It's a pretty bold statement, sure. Alabama is going to murder him in front of a national TV audience. I just want someone, anyone else who might stand a chance, and that someone is not Joel Stave.

I can't even begin to understand how people can still rationalize him being "good enough" to take a D-1 team anywhere meaningful. No, he's not **** "good enough". He never has been. We only won as many games and beat an SEC team in a bowl game because Melvin Gordon gave us one of the top 5 college RB seasons in history and our defense under Aranda (discounting the title game) massively exceeded expectations and kept us in ball games all year.

It just, depressingly, reminds me of the same mentality that Bears fans had with Jay Cutler over the years. I just want to ask every time "At what point do you realize that he's terrible and you're not going anywhere with him as your QB?"

This is the nature of college football. We had Russell Wilson and a powerful offense but a **** defense that year and therefore still lost several games. It's hard for all of the stars to align in a given season for a team that routinely shows up #30-#60 in the recruiting rankings.

Please, enlighten me. Who's going to not make it a "wasted" season in your estimation? Oh, DJ Gillins is a 4-star recruit! Well, that obviously means he's better!

We've already seen it once with McEvoy. I'm OK with taking a shot on these guys, but the best guy normally ends up playing and that is Stave. Throwing somebody to the wolves against Alabama could also cost them the game. Everyone bitched about McEvoy in hindsight against LSU. Maybe the game is kept close and "average" QB play is the difference.

You're a Wisconsin Badgers fan, not an Alabama Crimson Tide or Florida State Seminoles fan. Temper your expectations and enjoy it. There's going to be a flaw on basically every single iteration of the team. Right now, it's quarterback.

Also, take a look around. I can't even name half of the BIG 10 QBs but most of them also suck outside of Ohio State. Stave isn't that good but everyone acts like they have this hot take that Stave sucks because he throws crappy INTs and is immobile. No ****.

Here's some fun. I know that nobody is expecting another Russell Wilson, rather improvement, but you'd probably have broken away from being a Badgers fan if you treated Stave the same way as you treated the QBs of the past. Here are the career QB ratings of the past QBs we've had vs. BIG 10 play. This will normalize it and take out the dominant performances they had against creampuffs.

2013-2014: Joel Stave. Rating: 131
2012: A hodge podge and it sucked (Stave included).
2011: Russell Wilson - Yes, I'd love to have him again. Rating: 198
2009-2010: Scott Tolzien. Rating: 147 (this was propped up by an excellent senior year)
2008: A pile of **** between Evridge/Sherer/and eventually Tolzien.
2007: Tyler Donovan. Rating: 134
2004-2006: John Stocco. Rating: 134
2001-2003: Jim Sorgi. Rating: 149. There were others in the mix so this really is just his senior season and partial years before that. Bollinger overlapped for a lot of those years.
2000-2002: Brooks Bollinger. Rating: 123

[KidA24]

2013-2014: Joel Stave. Rating: 131
2012: A hodge podge and it sucked (Stave included).
2011: Russell Wilson - Yes, I'd love to have him again. Rating: 198
2009-2010: Scott Tolzien. Rating: 147 (this was propped up by an excellent senior year)
2008: A pile of **** between Evridge/Sherer/and eventually Tolzien.
2007: Tyler Donovan. Rating: 134
2004-2006: John Stocco. Rating: 134
2001-2003: Jim Sorgi. Rating: 149. There were others in the mix so this really is just his senior season and partial years before that. Bollinger overlapped for a lot of those years.
2000-2002: Brooks Bollinger. Rating: 123

Yep, they had a pile of crap at QB under Bielema aside from Wilson. Sorgi was legit good (As his 10 yr NFL career proves) and Bollinger's success was 40% his ability to run the ball which probably doesn't show in this QB rating you're showing.

If the Badgers are going to compete on a national level (not just a big ten level) going forward, they will need better QB play. The difference between a guy like Tolzien his senior year and Stave is enormous.

[Kerb Hohl]

Right. I wouldn't bet on Stave matching Tolzien's senior year, but his goal should be to be around that mark.

I'd love it if Gillins or true freshman Kafentzis had the makings of a stud player but I'll let PC decide that.

[Mags FTW]

Stave is garbage I wouldn't trust on a good D-II team. It's beyond laughable (sad?) this is the caliber of quarterback the Badgers, a perennial B1G contender, has been playing.

Even more sad that OSU's 3rd string QB is so much better than Stave.

[Kerb Hohl]

OSU's 3rd QB is probably a top 10 QB in the nation in that offense. Great example.

[KidA24]

OSU's 3rd QB is probably a top 10 QB in the nation in that offense. Great example.

Also shows the gaping difference between Anderson and a guy like Meyer.

Anderson said, "You're my QB, run my offense from the pocket." to a guy who was really good at running the football, roll outs, and getting outside the pocket.

Meyer shows up against the Badgers with a brand new QB, and has him running fake dives into the line to hold LBs, and roll outs and running the option.

Sigh.

[BigDee]

I like Gillins and had enough of Stave.

[Kerb Hohl]

I like Gillins and had enough of Stave.

Sounds good coach. What does the zip on his deep passes look like in practice?

[Kerb Hohl]

OSU's 3rd QB is probably a top 10 QB in the nation in that offense. Great example.

Also shows the gaping difference between Anderson and a guy like Meyer.

Anderson said, "You're my QB, run my offense from the pocket." to a guy who was really good at running the football, roll outs, and getting outside the pocket.

Meyer shows up against the Badgers with a brand new QB, and has him running fake dives into the line to hold LBs, and roll outs and running the option.

Sigh.

Has nothing to do with Andersen vs. Meyer. It's basically the difference between Meyer and everyone plus the OSU factor. Jones is a borderline NFL prospect already at QB at throwing the ball. Would agree that Urban is probably the best offensive coach in college football so that doesn't necessarily hurt.

Urban has the athletes and depth to run a spread/option/passing offense in college football. The Badgers have pretty much never had the talent to do that.

I agree that Ludwig/Andersen mishandled McEvoy and should have let him run more, but Cardale Jones was a highly regarded recruit that can actually throw the football. He's a big/fast guy that was listed as a pro-style QB. McEvoy could not throw the football as he was a guy that was recruited as a WR initially that really wanted to keep trying QB until it ultimately failed.