Wildcard Post Game: On to Arizona, You like that?

[humanrefutation]

I'm not saying I disagree with Thompson's draft-and-develop approach. I just think it's largely moot if we waste Aaron's prime.

As much as the entire roster matters, the most important and valuable and decisive position is Quarterback. Thus, it doesn't matter how good of a job you do with the LaDarius Gunter's of the world if Aaron passes his prime without another ring. You need impact players in key positions on the roster to truly make it over the top, and we've spent too much time trying to patch up significant holes with mediocre talent, despite room under our cap.

I have a strong feeling that once Aaron is gone, there are going to be some dark days in Lambeau for a couple decades or so, as there are so few truly elite QBs and we just happened to have two of them back-to-back. We need to take some chances.

[paulpressey25]

all he does is hand out the pitchforks for the mobs that give us the entitled fanbase label that we get sometimes.

And again that is the important frame in the TT debate. What standards should you use to judge your GM and your coach? Frankly every sports franchise at the level the Packers are at has this debate.

By most standards TT and MM should have their jobs for life. The team has been wildly successful with those two running things and they compliment each other really well. I'm not sure TT could handle a more senior Tom Coughlin type coach under him. At the same time MM probably needs an organized and disciplined guy as GM.

But as we know, we're spoiled and the bar is the Patriots (or in the 90's the Cowboys, 80's the 49ers, 70's the Steelers, etc). So as fans we could sit intellectually idle and just enjoy each season for what it is, or we could want to strive for greater excellence, which requires hard analysis of where the Packers could do better. And in that light, we question repetitive patterns exhibited by either TT or MM and whether they're helpful or a hinderance to a Super Bowl title.

It is part of the fan condition. Redskins fans would love to have our "problems" just as we'd love to have Belichick's problem of only winning 4 of 6 SB's since 2001.

[humanrefutation]

Every team, every single team, is working towards a Super Bowl champion. They're all at different points in the process - some of them are at square one, some of them are towards the peak. But, I completely reject the notion that it's entitled to expect to compete for one when you have a 2-time MVP at QB.

Any fan base would have such lofty standards if placed in our position. If we fail to capitalize on it, it is a disappointment no matter how the fans of a **** team would feel about our predicament.

[sidney lanier]

So as fans we could sit intellectually idle and just enjoy each season for what it is, or we could want to strive for greater excellence, which requires hard analysis of where the Packers could do better. And in that light, we question repetitive patterns exhibited by either TT or MM and whether they're helpful or a hinderance to a Super Bowl title.

Sometimes the best move you make is the one you don't make. While I agree that Ted can seem to overdo the "wise passiveness" approach, there are always benefits to not making a move (in terms of better opportunities to develop talent from within). Look at it upside down: if he hadn't brought in James Jones, maybe Abbredaris would be a different guy now. If he hadn't brought in Julius Peppers...OK, forget it, even I can't see an upside to not bringing him in.

I know we get a little envious of teams with better players at the skill positions, and our own guys fall out of favor because of our familiarity with their faults. That happens with every team, I think. But what we have is a pretty cohesive unit that plays hard and does well. For those of us who lived through the Forrest Gregg years, that's a blessing not to be minimized because of a lack of roster turnover.

And by the way, I agree with you on the need for a solid TE in the WCO to avoid essentially giving up the middle of the field, but what the Packers are seems to me to be less of a West Coast team than they were in the past, so I'm not sure it's as important as it used to be. McCarthy doesn't even accept the WCO designation anymore. I've always liked a Keith Jackson/John Mackey-type to make that shallow catch over the middle, but they're rare.

[paulpressey25]

We need to take some chances.

I agree with this. Agreed with it in 2006-08 w/Favre. A-Rod is a treasure that we may not have in GB for a long-time once he's gone. The time is now.

But who knows, maybe the Packers win on Saturday. We'll get a good read after the Arizona game where this franchise is at relative to the top tier contenders because I do not think Washington is a strong team. The incredible weakness of the NFC East got exposed yesterday.

[Balls2TheWalls]

I think that people who want to mock Thompson forget that he also drafted us a hall of fame safety and an all pro tight end that had their careers ended. He has also drafted the entirety of our offensive line, including the backup LT that looked like he should be starting. He brought in a secondary that is competent after just letting his top corners walk in free agency. Not to mention that he has found us effective wide receivers in nearly every draft outside of the top 25 picks. He has done more than enough to put this team in a position to win Superbowls. The onus of making the pieces work is on Mike McCarthy and his staff.

I think Arizona pounds us. I think that it is too soon to have Tretter trying to block one of the most devastating Right Defensive Ends in the league. I hope that we can keep Rodgers upright, because I think we can beat any team in the league if he has time. I'm just not confident that we will be able to block the Arizona front 7.

[crkone]

They definitely need Shields back too.

[Bernman]

Even if we win the Super Bowl this year, I still think Teddy has to trade a mid round draft pick here and there midseason to fill holes that present themselves, and maybe double the onus on free agency in the offseason, to take full advantage of the final years of Aaron's prime. Look what Woodson and Pickett did for us. Then there was a huge gap, after which he signed Peppers. He's been very reliable too. That's what veterans are, more so than youngsters. I think draft and develop or signing/trading is a false dilemma and that's proven by New England. You can do both. Just have to do the signing/trading part in moderation, but not nearly to the degree that Ted has. Then use the picks you do have to develop players behind them, and when they're ready, play them, and fill holes that spring up at other positions. If we finally get hot, with Aaron turning things around to become the best player in the NFL again, while leaning on a supporting cast of heavily first and second year players, many of whom were udfa's, i.e.: Adams, R. Rodgers, Abby, Linsley, Randall, HCD, Ryan, Thomas, Pennell, etc; I don't think it means we should keep going with the strategy to the same magnitude. It's not very reliable. We shouldn't be in a constant state of development while we're on the field. Then there's also the issue of a little older guys who aren't good enough but he drafted so he must stick with against proof they aren't sufficient. It's not too much to ask for him to fill more holes than he has. Especially disappointing if we don't win the Super Bowl this year in large part because we didn't have a deep threat.

[Flames24Rulz]

They definitely need Shields back too.

Yep. I loved the job the kids did yesterday, but this is going to be a little bit different. Washington has good skill players but Arizona has great ones.

If we're going to have any hope of winning on Saturday night, we're going to need at least 2 takeaways.

[El Duderino]

I think criticizing the depth at O-line is tremendous hindsight. Bahktiari has held down the LT position admirably his first few seasons, and going in, we had Tretter and Barclay as veteran guys who could rotate in and play multiple positions. One major injury to a starter can throw everything out of whack, and they at least seemed to have settled in with Tretter at LT rather than shifting everyone around like they did the last two weeks.

How was it tremendous hindsight?

McGinn early on was commenting about how bad Barclay was looking in training camp and then during the preseason, he was getting whipped just as badly as he's been getting whipped when pushed into action all season long.

How this wasn't sending massive red flags to Ted is beyond me. Barclay was facing backups and camp fodder in preseason, yet he constantly was getting bull rushed into the QB or pass rushers were running right around him as if his feet were tied together. That's not tremendous hindsight. It was my eyes saying wow Barclay looks horrific and if he ends up with the swing tackle job, Bahktiari or Bulaga better not miss any games.

Well, for some reason he did get the job and it was a huge debacle every time he had to fill in at either tackle spot.

[jakecronus8]

I think criticizing the depth at O-line is tremendous hindsight. Bahktiari has held down the LT position admirably his first few seasons, and going in, we had Tretter and Barclay as veteran guys who could rotate in and play multiple positions. One major injury to a starter can throw everything out of whack, and they at least seemed to have settled in with Tretter at LT rather than shifting everyone around like they did the last two weeks.

How was it tremendous hindsight?

McGinn early on was commenting about how bad Barclay was looking in training camp and then during the preseason, he was getting whipped just as badly as he's been getting whipped when pushed into action all season long.

How this wasn't sending massive red flags to Ted is beyond me. Barclay was facing backups and camp fodder in preseason, yet he constantly was getting pulled rushed into the QB or pass rushers were running right around him as if his feet were tied together. That's not tremendous hindsight. It was me eyes saying wow Barclay looks horrific and if he ends up with the swing tackle job, Bahktiari or Bulaga better not miss any games.

Well, for some reason he did get the job and it was a huge debacle every time he had to fill in at either tackle spot.

Disagree about Bakhtiari. He's just a guy and the best of what we have. LT is in need of a serious upgrade if we plan on keeping Rodgers healthy. It was a miracle he wasn't out for a significant amount of time this season given how much he was pressured and hit.

[WiscoKing13]

just a guy and the best of what we have. LT is in need of a serious upgrade if we plan on keeping Rodgers healthy. It was a miracle he wasn't out for a significant amount of time this season given how much he was pressured and hit.

He's not, does well against the bull rush, struggles more against speed rushers. If you're looking to upgrade to a pro bowler well there's 20 other spots on the team this year we can also look at.

[thomchatt3rton]

The first two questions are we'd fine if he had one or the other. Not having either right now is what sucks. Look at the Patriots without Gronk

Not having a sproles type of guy for a RB only really sucks if you don't have a guy that man the slot. Cobbs shown to be pretty good there so while it'd help I wouldn't say it's a primary factor especially since both Lacy and Starks are "OK" out of the backfield[/quote]

That's the point I was trying to elicit. I don't really see it as "top-tier TE" vs "deep-threat WR", which is intrinsically better etc. Especially since having one of those opens things up for the other.

I'm not sure about PP's theory about an elite TE being the key to winning in the playoffs though. Obviously it helps to have an "elite" anything, but would we have beaten SEA, SF or NYG the last couple of years if we had a top-tier TE? I'm not sure about that. Maybe SEA but we should've won that f*cking game anyway.

As for pass-catching RBs, I don't disagree with you in general, but having a RB who could motion out and lineup as a WR would be a valuable tool. Doesn't even have to be a Sprohls-level guy- it's a question of putting it in the playbook.
Starks could do it probably with some degree of success. He's done it sparingly in years past. Lacy's few attempts at it this year were...not successful.

I'm not sure how much that would help a team that doesn't have a deepthreat or a TE threat though, but it'd be valuable for creating mismatches and could help a lot getting Rodgers the quick easy read he's been dying for all year.

[El Duderino]

My biggest frustration with Bakhtiari is how often he gets penalized.

That said, finding a high quality LT isn't easy. Ted is going to have a tough call on Bakhtiari on whether to pay him once he nears free agency unless Ted manages to draft a better option without a high first round pick.

[jakecronus8]

My biggest frustration with Bakhtiari is how often he gets penalized.

That said, finding a high quality LT isn't easy. Ted is going to have a tough call on Bakhtiari on whether to pay him once he nears free agency unless Ted manages to draft a better option without a high first round pick.

I'm fine with using a first round pick on a LT provided it's not a reach. I'd even send it to Cleveland for Thomas and be done with it.

[thomchatt3rton]

Which brings me to another thing, why hasn't Quarless seen the field more? He's been active for at least 3-4 weeks now, and he at least gives you some speed at the position as well as being a trusted target by Rodgers over the years.

I've been wondering about this too. I was expecting to at least see Quarless on the field a lot more for the simple fact that with him you can now use 2TE sets. Even if the play doesn't involve Quarless as a receiver, being able to run stuff from that formation has advantages.

At first I wondered if they were just done with him because of the off-field trouble but I don't think that anymore. I guess it's possible he's really out of shape or something. It's also very possible MM doesn't like the way he's practicing or something along those lines. The two factors that seem to dictate PT for guys on this team are: 1) How they practice, and 2) Where they were drafted (and "2" seems to be capable of overriding "1" in a lot of cases).

[HKPackFan]

I'm thrilled we won. It was exciting and great to see the Packers of old moving the football and putting up points.

But they were the last placed passing defense and haven't beaten a team with a winning record. So even though they were on a hot streak this was a mediocre football team we beat.

That being said I'm happy we beat a mediocre team coz we could not even beat crappy divisional opponents, so that is DEFINITELY a positive.

Yet the realist in me says our passing ills are not magically solved. I definitely have my doubts about playing one of the top 4 teams in the league. I don't think we are at AZ's level.

[HKPackFan]

I'm also glad the Packers had the mental toughness to fight back after going down 11 to 0. I thought they were going to fold or collapse or give up because 11pts seemed like a herculean task to overcome previously.

I didn't think they had it in them.