Thompson and His Lack of In Season Moves

[MickeyDavis]

Good McGinn article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/lack-of-in-season-roster-moves-by-silent-gm-thompson-hurting-team-b99647553z1-364762971.html

[WiscoKing13]

McGinn nailed my biggest issue with TT and that's not turning the bottom 5 players enough. Came to bite us in the ass not finding another tackle. Other than that TT has had two of his best drafts the last two years, although the undrafted free agents he's found haven't been the greatest of late.

Either way nothing will change until TT retires.

[Jollay]

Good article, and it's time for TT to step it up a little, but frankly I think it's an inappropriate article to come out the day of a playoff game. No wonder "the negativity" is a topic.
Mason Foster is a perfect example of yet another ILB that we could have upgraded with on the cheap after Barrington went down.

[MickeyDavis]

Eliot Wolf, the Packers' director of player personnel, examines the waiver wire six days each week and makes alterations in the team's pro board, which is comparable to the draft board.

The pro scouts will study additional tape of players just waived and discuss their evaluations with Wolf. If Thompson is on the road, as he often is during the season, Wolf will call him to discuss players and offer suggestions made by the staff.

Then it's up to Thompson, whose answer 999 times out of 1,000 will be no.

I'd love to know the moves Wolf would have made had he had the final say. Or of he is in line with TT's reasoning. Many think Wolf is next the GM.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't mind the strategy of filling the back end of the roster with your own young developmental guys. When it works you can find some cheap dimonds in the rough. Where I think tt deserves criticism is for not hitting on enough late picks the last few years. That's the key to the strategy.

[WeekapaugGroove]

One thing I'm not sure I've seen brought up is some of the erosion of talent is just a natural effect of success. The last top 10 pick the Packers had was Raji so they've essentially went entire generation of players picking in the 20s. So there has literally been over a 100 guys they've never had the opportunity to pick. This along with free agency eroding your depth catches up after a while. It's no accident that really only the Patriots have been able to sustain success as long as the pack these last eight years. They system in the NFL is set up for short cycles of success then rebuild.

[th87]

One thing I'm not sure I've seen brought up is some of the erosion of talent is just a natural effect of success. The last top 10 pick the Packers had was Raji so they've essentially went entire generation of players picking in the 20s. So there has literally been over a 100 guys they've never had the opportunity to pick. This along with free agency eroding your depth catches up after a while. It's no accident that really only the Patriots have been able to sustain success as long as the pack these last eight years. They system in the NFL is set up for short cycles of success then rebuild.

I get your larger point, but comparing the Patriots to the Packers is like Michael Jordan to Dirk Nowitzki.

Also, there were lots of impact players we were in position to draft, but missed on. Draft position matters, but it's not an automatic bar to talent.

As I've said before, TT is one of the best in the business, but he has this perplexing tendency to allow total liabilities at the bottom of the roster, which are often our undoing. We have fielded talented defenses, but a lowest common denominator ruins it for everybody.

[WeekapaugGroove]

One thing I'm not sure I've seen brought up is some of the erosion of talent is just a natural effect of success. The last top 10 pick the Packers had was Raji so they've essentially went entire generation of players picking in the 20s. So there has literally been over a 100 guys they've never had the opportunity to pick. This along with free agency eroding your depth catches up after a while. It's no accident that really only the Patriots have been able to sustain success as long as the pack these last eight years. They system in the NFL is set up for short cycles of success then rebuild.

I get your larger point, but comparing the Patriots to the Packers is like Michael Jordan to Dirk Nowitzki.

Also, there were lots of impact players we were in position to draft, but missed on. Draft position matters, but it's not an automatic bar to talent.

As I've said before, TT is one of the best in the business, but he has this perplexing tendency to allow total liabilities at the bottom of the roster, which are often our undoing. We have fielded talented defenses, but a lowest common denominator ruins it for everybody.

I wasn't comparing the Packers and Patriots I was just using them as an example that prolonged success in the NFL isn't very common. For the most part teams go on 4-5 year cycles where they are good then get hit by the cap and drafting late then typically fall back draft high then start the cycle again.

I completely agree that you need to find impact players later in the draft but was just pointing out that it's a lot easier to get impact players when you draft high and have the opportunity to select the can't miss prospects like AJ Green, Von Miller, Earl Thomas, Eric Berry and so on. Even a guy like Ryan Shazier would have been huge and I do think the Pack liked him but he went before they picked.

I get the argument that they should have done a better job with the bottom of the roster but I guess I feel the bigger problem is they haven't done a good enough job finding front of the roster guys late in the draft. The last pro bowl level guy they got late or undrafted fa was Sam Shields and that was a while ago. If your going to be a draft and develop team you need to do a better job finding the diamonds in the rough. As I stated on my first post I actually like the strategy of keeping developmental guys at the back end of the roster as opposed to vets with little to no upside. Sure with the vets you're in a better position if you need to start them a game or two if injuries hit but you lose out on the potential that one of the young guys will break out and be a difference maker. But for this strategy to work you need to hit on some of those young guys and there just hasn't been enough hits lately.

[midranger]

Two things.

1. I think the Patriots success should be the expectation. Tom Brady and Favre/Rodgers have been the best QB situations in their respective conferences for the past 15-ish years. There really is no one else close in the NFC, while Manning/Luck was close in the AFC. QB is the most important position in the NFL by far. Because of that, these teams SHOULD be successful. While the Pats have reached 6 Bowls (winning 4), the Pack has reached 1. The Pats have done it with a variety of strengths/weaknesses/personnel. They just repeatedly find the right recipe. We don't. I know it's a symptom of being a spoiled fan, but I'd say that (to this point) the late-Favre/Rodgers era has been a moderate failure by many measures. Is that on TT's passive nature? Maybe. I know one thing, I'd have taken three Owls and then missing the playoffs for 2 years while mired in cap hell, rather than 1 Owl and consistent Division Champ but never quite over the hump.

EDIT: there have been 9 super bowls since TT took over. 3 teams have been to the Owl 3 times. 2 other teams have been there twice. Looking at the teams remaining, that will almost certainly increase. Sustained high level success in the nfl is not an impossible dream. Particularly when you have consistent high level QB play. In terms of success, I'd say we're most similar to the Saints, who were always really good but seemingly never quite got over the hump outside of one year. Their window looks like it may be closed. Can't let that happen here.


2. I think some of TT's passive nature falls on MM. He needs to walk into Ted's office and tell him what the team needs. Are we one or two pieces away? Do we need another player for depth? Are there positions that just don't cut muster? If so, it's part on him to demand that it gets done. That's a problem with having the GM and coach tied at the hip. There should be some natural conflict between them. These two seem on board with what either are (or aren't) doing.

[El Duderino]

Two things.

1. I think the Patriots success should be the expectation. Tom Brady and Favre/Rodgers have been the best QB situations in their respective conferences for the past 15-ish years. There really is no one else close in the NFC, while Manning/Luck was close in the AFC. QB is the most important position in the NFL by far. Because of that, these teams SHOULD be successful. While the Pats have reached 6 Bowls (winning 4), the Pack has reached 1. The Pats have done it with a variety of strengths/weaknesses/personnel. They just repeatedly find the right recipe. We don't.

2. I think some of TT's passive nature falls on MM. He needs to walk into Ted's office and tell him what the team needs. Are we one or two pieces away? Do we need another player for depth? Are there positions that just don't cut muster? If so, it's part on him to demand that it gets done. That's a problem with having the GM and coach tied at the hip. There should be some natural conflict between them. These two seem on board with what either are (or aren't) doing.

Since Belichick took over in New England, he's consistently added productive veterans via free agency or trades to augment his rosters also built on draft picks. Here and there he's added a big name like a Moss or Revis, but most of the veterans he's added over the years were lower to mid-priced guys to add depth where he saw weaknesses on his rosters. Because of that, he's rarely been in a position where he'd have a contending caliber team, but stuck with a total scrub like say MJ Jennings starting at safety or like this year with Barclay as the only backup tackle who then got destroyed every time one of our tackle got hurt.

As for McCarthy not being willing to ask for help some years where a position on the team clearly is bad, i think that's one reason why Ted will stick with McCarthy for years going forward, even if another ring isn't won. McCarthy seems to buy 100 percent into Ted's rigid team building philosophy of pretty much only using draft picks/undrafted free agents and i think Ted very much appreciates that. A hassle he doesn't have to deal with in his mind.

[HKPackFan]

Two things.

1. I think the Patriots success should be the expectation. Tom Brady and Favre/Rodgers have been the best QB situations in their respective conferences for the past 15-ish years. There really is no one else close in the NFC, while Manning/Luck was close in the AFC. QB is the most important position in the NFL by far. Because of that, these teams SHOULD be successful. While the Pats have reached 6 Bowls (winning 4), the Pack has reached 1. The Pats have done it with a variety of strengths/weaknesses/personnel. They just repeatedly find the right recipe. We don't.

2. I think some of TT's passive nature falls on MM. He needs to walk into Ted's office and tell him what the team needs. Are we one or two pieces away? Do we need another player for depth? Are there positions that just don't cut muster? If so, it's part on him to demand that it gets done. That's a problem with having the GM and coach tied at the hip. There should be some natural conflict between them. These two seem on board with what either are (or aren't) doing.

Since Belichick took over in New England, he's consistently added productive veterans via free agency or trades to augment his rosters also built on draft picks. Here and there he's added a big name like a Moss or Revis, but most of the veterans he's added over the years were lower to mid-priced guys to add depth where he saw weaknesses on his rosters. Because of that, he's rarely been in a position where he'd have a contending caliber team, but stuck with a total scrub like say MJ Jennings starting at safety or like this year with Barclay as the only backup tackle who then got destroyed every time one of our tackle got hurt.

As for McCarthy not being willing to ask for help some years where a position on the team clearly is bad, i think that's one reason why Ted will stick with McCarthy for years going forward, even if another ring isn't won. McCarthy seems to buy 100 percent into Ted's rigid team building philosophy of pretty much only using draft picks/undrafted free agents and i think Ted very much appreciates that. A hassle he doesn't have to deal with in his mind.

Or somehow thinking Brad Jones at ILB could work.

[Ron Swanson]

How's that Vernon Davis in-season trade working out for Denver? Looks like he's averaging a whopping 2 receptions for 20 yards per game. 1 reception for 5 yards in his last 3 games...

[RRyder823]

How's that Vernon Davis in-season trade working out for Denver? Looks like he's averaging a whopping 2 receptions for 20 yards per game. 1 reception for 5 yards in his last 3 games...

Which makes it even more impressive people are still upset TT didn't trade for him

[dietac]

I'm not a fan of spending draft picks on an aging vet unless they are a "sure thing". It's easy to say in hindsight who we should have traded a 5th and a 6th for so and so but if you do that every year and miss, which is more likely, you lose a lot of draft picks. I would like to see us turn over the last 3 or 4 spots on lower level free agent vets (think Howard Green) in positions of need. Why not sign 8-10 veteran free agents each offseason and see if 3 or 4 of these guys can stick. We' seem to turn over 15 spots every year, make a few of them vets that can contribute if needed instead of all guys that you are afraid to put in the game because they are green.

[El Duderino]

How's that Vernon Davis in-season trade working out for Denver? Looks like he's averaging a whopping 2 receptions for 20 yards per game. 1 reception for 5 yards in his last 3 games...

I don't care a lot about trading for veterans in season. I get more bothered that for years now we've had legit contending teams, but Ted would go into seasons with glaring weaknesses like ILB (Hawk/Jones) or safety with MJ Jennings and stubbornly refuse to at least bring in competition. Same for Barclay this year when he was getting whipped all preseason long.

[rilamann]

It sucks seeing the Packers knocked out of the playoffs and Aaron Rodgers denied rings at the expense of teams lead at QB by guys like Colin **** Kaepernick (2012,2013),a geriatric Kurt Warner (2009) and if the Packers lose to today add Carson Palmer to that list.

The Packers always have the best QB but they never seem to have anything close to the best team and it also doesn't help when your coach is Mike McCarthy.

And what sucks is that when you have Aaron Rodgers you instantly have a leg up on every team in the league except maybe the Patriots.It's not like you have to put a dream team around Aaron Rodgers to win Super Bowls.

If you're a GM and you have Aaron Rodgers it's like you're playing the game on rookie mode while everyone else is playing the game on superstar mode.I don't think TT is a bad GM in terms of judging talent,but his philosophy and stubbornness as a GM is going to make the Rodgers era a complete failure.

[LittleRooster]

Midranger's point about how McCarthy should be more aggressive and that there should be a natural conflict there is actually spot on.

I had never thought of it, but very astute. Best thought I've read in a while

[xTitan]

How's that Vernon Davis in-season trade working out for Denver? Looks like he's averaging a whopping 2 receptions for 20 yards per game. 1 reception for 5 yards in his last 3 games...

I wouldve taken Vernon Davis in a second at GB

[xTitan]

I have been Teds biggest supporter, I stil believe the core of the Packers will always be draft and develop, but the lack of speed/ talent he has given Rodgers at the skill positions is nothing short of ridiculous. I am hoping Ted gets Doug Melvin treatment and either Elliot Wolf or someone off the tree gets an opportunity, holes need to be filled with short term vets, not undrafted rookie FA's...this offense is by far the slowest in the NFL.