Lions @ Pack - Noon - FOX

[Kerb Hohl]

They had 10 points at halftime even after the late TD. We could play the same way, give up another 10 plus and extra TD, and still win without scoring another point.

So exactly what they did outside of adding a FG?

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You're making my argument for not playing prevent. The prevent allowed the Lions to score almost twice as many points in the 2nd half.

But are you sure? The Lions basically destroyed their first 3 drives by running -1 yard plays to Theo Riddick. I think they would have torched us in the 2nd half regardless.

The Lions did have an extremely long drive early in the 1st half probably because they initially wanted to keep Aaron Rodgers off the field. Once they got down 21-3, they had to abort that plan. After that, their offense was also unstoppable.

The Lions in the 2nd half:

6:37 long TD drive
5:42 long FG drive
3:00 long punt drive
1:31 long TD drive


So outside of that 1:31 drive where they seemed to be out of gas on defense, they made them use over an entire quarter of game-time to score their points.

Two questions:

1. What if the Packers have a few extra dropped passes and instead of their 5 minute drive(s) they had in the second half, those drives are 1 minute?
2. What if the Lions scored faster?

Extra drives, Lions can tie the game.

[GBPackers47]

I'd like to point out the soft zone, or "prevent defense", only allowed 10 points the entire 2nd half.

They gave up 7 points at the end of the first because they WEREN'T playing a prevent and another 7 because Randell fell down on a play were they decided not to play with a Saftey over the top.

I get the complaining about the D though and won't disagree we have alot to clean up . Just pointing out that the soft zone actually was pretty damn effective and considering we were without both Burnett and Shields with Randell continuing to play bad maybe, just maybe, an aggressive approach on D wasn't the way to go. In fact we gave up 14 points when they did decide to play aggressively where as the soft zone limited them to 10 points, forced 3 throws that by all rights should've been intercepted and ate up a TON of clock. (The latter of which ultimately limited the snaps we had on offense though).

Complaining over the play calling on offense is non sensical though as we had 2 punts the entire game that only came as our recievers failed to catch the ball.

I

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1. The defense gave up 17 points in the second half, 10 in the first half.
2. Speaking to your point though, using the 17 points, the only reason we say they only gave up X Points is because the Packers won and we happened to score 31 in the first half, which proved to be too much for the Lions to make up with only two quarters.

My frustration isn't about the play calling for one series or because I think we should throw more than run. My frustration stems for the fact that the team gets complacent when they have a lead, and that problem starts with the coaching staff.

The Lions came out striking to start the second half with a 77 yard touchdown drive to make the game 31-17. We respond with a 47 yard drive resulting in a field goal. 34-17. Fine. The problem I have is when the Lions score again. Granted it was only a field goal, but from that moment on, this team didn't look like one that wanted to keep a 14+ point lead. This team looked like someone praying the clock would run out soon. And when you do that, teams will sneak up on you. We didn't respond to the Lions FG, and two drives later they scored a TD. This quickly went from a 3 score game to a one score game, with the Lions having the opportunity to tie it up. If your defense is a liability, then adjust your offensive game plan to compensate for the issue, then use the week's practices to fix the problem. We play call like our offense and defense are playing two completely different games. Plus, we should know better than anyone that you have to play til the final whistle after we stole one from them last year.

Maybe this team just doesn't know how to play with lead. If that's the case, again, it starts with the coaching staff. I know they won the game but can you honestly say you were happy with the way the Packers finished that game compared to how they started it from an offensive standpoint?

You are the VP of sales, so I will defer to you: the one that fully understands the psyche of 52 players on a football field. I for one thought they were very fired up.

You just said "I for one thought they were very fired up" implying that you don't know any better than I do. Can you confirm they were fired up? If not, then what makes your opinion any more valid than mine? Was this just another chance for you to take a shot at my analogy that is very relatable to what I was talking about? Most likely.

But because you don't seem to think coaching is a problem, please enlighten me with what you think the problem is. Tell me why this team, being one of the best talent wise for so many years, has only made one Super Bowl appearance under McCarthy. And please spare me with the "Making it to the Super Bowl is hard" nonsense.

[Kerb Hohl]

You are the VP of sales, so I will defer to you: the one that fully understands the psyche of 52 players on a football field. I for one thought they were very fired up.

You just said "I for one thought they were very fired up" implying that you don't know any better than I do. Can you confirm they were fired up? If not, then what makes your opinion any more valid than mine? Was this just another chance for you to take a shot at my analogy that is very relatable to what I was talking about? Most likely.

But because you don't seem to think coaching is a problem, please enlighten me with what you think the problem is. Tell me why this team, being one of the best talent wise for so many years, has only made one Super Bowl appearance under McCarthy. And please spare me with the "Making it to the Super Bowl is hard" nonsense.

That was a joke but the sarcasm doesn't cross the internet well. I have no **** clue how they felt...I hate that sort of analysis because we have no idea.

Coaching generally has been the problem on offense over the past year and change. Yesterday, it was not.

[Mags FTW]

A team takes on the personality of its coaches. Ours is to coast to a W. It bit us in the ass at Seattle. Yes, it took a calamity of errors, but we provided the perfect environment, summed up by Peppers telling Dix to take a knee.

[GBPackers47]

You are the VP of sales, so I will defer to you: the one that fully understands the psyche of 52 players on a football field. I for one thought they were very fired up.

You just said "I for one thought they were very fired up" implying that you don't know any better than I do. Can you confirm they were fired up? If not, then what makes your opinion any more valid than mine? Was this just another chance for you to take a shot at my analogy that is very relatable to what I was talking about? Most likely.

But because you don't seem to think coaching is a problem, please enlighten me with what you think the problem is. Tell me why this team, being one of the best talent wise for so many years, has only made one Super Bowl appearance under McCarthy. And please spare me with the "Making it to the Super Bowl is hard" nonsense.

That was a joke but the sarcasm doesn't cross the internet well. I have no **** clue how they felt...I hate that sort of analysis because we have no idea.

Coaching generally has been the problem on offense over the past year and change. Yesterday, it was not.

Sarcasm doesn't come across well, so my apologies. No harm.

I think we're just going to agree to disagree on this one so I will leave it as is.

[RRyder823]

They had 10 points at halftime even after the late TD. We could play the same way, give up another 10 plus and extra TD, and still win without scoring another point.

So exactly what they did outside of adding a FG?

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You're making my argument for not playing prevent. The prevent allowed the Lions to score almost twice as many points in the 2nd half.

Actually the soft zone allowed 10 and then Randell falling down a play were they decided to go away from the soft zone, which is something your saying they should've done more of, resulted in the other seven. In fact it's easy to argue that the Packers playing "aggressively" on D gave up 17 points where as the soft zone gave up 10 while forcing them to eat up large chunks of the clock and provided numerous TO opportunities

Also you even just argued you would of been happy if they gave up 17 points as long as they were playing the same way in the 1st half. Discounting that those 17 points, if they were playing the aggressive style of D your advocating, could've been scored in much quicker fashion and givin them a chance at the end.

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[Kerb Hohl]

A team takes on the personality of its coaches. Ours is to coast to a W. It bit us in the ass at Seattle. Yes, it took a calamity of errors, but we provided the perfect environment, summed up by Peppers telling Dix to take a knee.

OK, you want to think that that play has something to do with the coach but it was a split second play. On the play, Burnett picked it off and Peppers processed the information within a split second and was off by like 2 minutes. I hated that play beyond belief the second it happened but I don't think that's necessarily on the coach.

I would imagine that McCarthy is probably like 20-1 in games where they have a 14+ point lead in the 2nd half. Aaron Rodgers helps...but we win. The Lions have blown 2 gigantic leads this year already (they came back and won one) and I'll assume that part of it has to do with trying to keep their foot on the gas and leaving clock for the opponent. I am a fan of what Belichick normally does, but I'm trying to explain that as infuriating as it is, playing conservative can actually increase your win odds as well.

OK, I think I need to get off of here before I'm cliched to death.

[RRyder823]

A team takes on the personality of its coaches. Ours is to coast to a W. It bit us in the ass at Seattle. Yes, it took a calamity of errors, but we provided the perfect environment, summed up by Peppers telling Dix to take a knee.

OK, you want to think that that play has something to do with the coach but it was a split second play. On the play, Burnett picked it off and Peppers processed the information within a split second and was off by like 2 minutes. I hated that play beyond belief the second it happened but I don't think that's necessarily on the coach.

I would imagine that McCarthy is probably like 20-1 in games where they have a 14+ point lead in the 2nd half. Aaron Rodgers helps...but we win. The Lions have blown 2 gigantic leads this year already (they came back and won one) and I'll assume that part of it has to do with trying to keep their foot on the gas and leaving clock for the opponent. I am a fan of what Belichick normally does, but I'm trying to explain that as infuriating as it is, playing conservative can actually increase your win odds as well.

OK, I think I need to get off of here before I'm cliched to death.

The bolded is something too many people have a hard time wrapping their head around



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[RRyder823]

For the "conservative play always comes back to bite us" crowd.

MM record when up 21+ at the half: 14-0

If you still say "yeah well nobody should lose a lead that big he still blows plenty of other leads"....

MM record when leading by at least a single point going into the 4th quarter: 97-14

If your going to respond with "yeah that's 14 blown leads but how many were just close games we lost and how many of those were double digit choke jobs?"......

MM record when heading into the 4th quarter with a 10+ point lead: 60-1 (guess the one cause nope they only had a 9 point lead headed into the 4th in the Seattle game)

And for the "well we need to step on their throats because it's much more effective just like the Pats do" crowd....

BB from 2006-2016, or pretty much when they developed the reputation for running up a score, number of losses when they had 4th quarter lead of 10+ points: 2 (no that's not alot but notice how it's twice as many as MM then again you could add the Seattle game to match that number for MM as we kicked a FG early in the 4th to go up by 12)



All I'm saying is for all the complaining about just how bad MM is for being too conservative late in games and the idea that it costs us games is a stretch in the least and for all the complaining about how MM calls a game while protecting a lead he actually has a pretty damn good record when doing so


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[Ron Swanson]

A team takes on the personality of its coaches.

Just had to chime in and illustrate how this is exactly why it's sometimes impossible to have a logical discussion about coaching/scheme/execution, etc.

If you're going to make this convenient argument that everything that happens on the field is an extension of the head coach (which IMO is absolutely ridiculous), then by default, you can literally blame anything and everything on McCarthy and by that logic never be wrong.

[jakecronus8]

Listened to some local shows today. Kudos to Bill Michaels for not allowing the idiot callers to run with this McCarthy was too conservative non sense.

[dietac]

Listened to some local shows today. Kudos to Bill Michaels for not allowing the idiot callers to run with this McCarthy was too conservative non sense.

I'm not disagreeing with your point but The Big Unit? I'm not sure that is your best argument.

[jakecronus8]

Listened to some local shows today. Kudos to Bill Michaels for not allowing the idiot callers to run with this McCarthy was too conservative non sense.

I'm not disagreeing with your point but The Big Unit? I'm not sure that is your best argument.

Unit'a bread and butter is the Packers. It's everywhere else where he struggles.

[HKPackFan]

McGinn does a pretty good job:

I think he sums it up pretty well. Dline and LBs did a very good job and the secondary was awful.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2016/09/26/mcginn-rating-packers-vs-lions/91126070/