Game 8: Detroit at Green Bay - 7:30 ESPN and Channel 12

[CWoodfan]

We lack talent on defense, Jake Ryan might be the worst starting linebacker in the league.

So funny, my brother said to me Monday night, I can't think of which former NLF linebacker Ryan reminds me of but he really reminds me of someone.

About an hour later, as the Pack's D was giving up yet another 3rd and long, he shouted now I know, Ryan is the latest version of AJ Hawk.

It is uncanny how the Packers have given up yardage over the middle during Dom's time in Green Bay and subjected us to watching nobodies like Ryan and Hawk year after year after year.

And for the record, I think Martinez is better than Ryan and Hawk, but he still is not very good in coverage.

[Prickle]

We lack talent on defense, Jake Ryan might be the worst starting linebacker in the league.

So funny, my brother said to me Monday night, I can't think of which former NLF linebacker Ryan reminds me of but he really reminds me of someone.

About an hour later, as the Pack's D was giving up yet another 3rd and long, he shouted now I know, Ryan is the latest version of AJ Hawk.

It is uncanny how the Packers have given up yardage over the middle during Dom's time in Green Bay and subjected us to watching nobodies like Ryan and Hawk year after year after year.

And for the record, I think Martinez is better than Ryan and Hawk, but he still is not very good in coverage.

Oh stop it. I thought we were all past the Hawk bashing years ago. Hawk was merely a victim of circumstance - i.e., expectations. He was never a bad player, he just never lived up to the hype that accompanies a 5th-overall selection. He may have been underwhelming, but he was solid. The dude played 11 years in the league, nine of which were with the Packers. I'd say that's pretty good for someone being compared to the "worst starting linebacker in the league."

Above anything else, the guy may have been the most reliable player this team has seen in decades. In nine seasons with GB, he missed all of two games. Yes, that's right, TWO f*cking games in NINE years! Meanwhile, our current team loses about 4-6 guys each game, due to injury. If you ask me, the current Packers team could use a couple of AJ Hawks.

[midranger]

It's plain to see that this team is seriously talent deficient (outside of Rodgers) AND poorly coached/schemed. It's not one or the other, it's obviously both.

It starts with Ted. He should have been canned at least 2 years ago and hasn't had a good draft since clay Matthews was selected. Because of that, the talent level has consistently eroded around Rodgers from multiple elite level players on both sides of the ball to literally zero on either side. On the coaching side, McCarthy hasn't adjusted a thing. Still talk of beating the guy in front of you when it's obvious that our guys just aren't good enough to do so.

The house cleaning has to happen this year if there is any chance of salvaging Rodgers prime with a reasonable supporting cast. But I think many of us who were mocked for wanting organizational "urgency" 3 years ago fear it's already on the late end for what will likely be a multiyear project to rebuild a badly depleted talent core.

[ReginaldDwight]

It's plain to see that this team is seriously talent deficient (outside of Rodgers) AND poorly coached/schemed. It's not one or the other, it's obviously both.

It starts with Ted. He should have been canned at least 2 years ago and hasn't had a good draft since clay Matthews was selected. Because of that, the talent level has consistently eroded around Rodgers from multiple elite level players on both sides of the ball to literally zero on either side. On the coaching side, McCarthy hasn't adjusted a thing. Still talk of beating the guy in front of you when it's obvious that our guys just aren't good enough to do so.

The house cleaning has to happen this year if there is any chance of salvaging Rodgers prime with a reasonable supporting cast. But I think many of us who were mocked for wanting organizational "urgency" 3 years ago fear it's already on the late end for what will likely be a multiyear project to rebuild a badly depleted talent core.

Yep, at least they got the one title with Rodgers, I have no faith in the current FO to do anything but make stupid signings and bad picks.

[CWoodfan]

We lack talent on defense, Jake Ryan might be the worst starting linebacker in the league.

So funny, my brother said to me Monday night, I can't think of which former NLF linebacker Ryan reminds me of but he really reminds me of someone.

About an hour later, as the Pack's D was giving up yet another 3rd and long, he shouted now I know, Ryan is the latest version of AJ Hawk.

It is uncanny how the Packers have given up yardage over the middle during Dom's time in Green Bay and subjected us to watching nobodies like Ryan and Hawk year after year after year.

And for the record, I think Martinez is better than Ryan and Hawk, but he still is not very good in coverage.

Oh stop it. I thought we were all past the Hawk bashing years ago. Hawk was merely a victim of circumstance - i.e., expectations. He was never a bad player, he just never lived up to the hype that accompanies a 5th-overall selection. He may have been underwhelming, but he was solid. The dude played 11 years in the league, nine of which were with the Packers. I'd say that's pretty good for someone being compared to the "worst starting linebacker in the league."

Above anything else, the guy may have been the most reliable player this team has seen in decades. In nine seasons with GB, he missed all of two games. Yes, that's right, TWO f*cking games in NINE years! Meanwhile, our current team loses about 4-6 guys each game, due to injury. If you ask me, the current Packers team could use a couple of AJ Hawks.

Who is bashing Hawk?

More power to him. It is not his fault that the Packers paid him like he was one of the best inside linebackers in the game when he was never anything more than a JAG.

[KidA24]

More power to him. It is not his fault that the Packers paid him like he was one of the best inside linebackers in the game when he was never anything more than a JAG.

I'd watch.

[MickeyDavis]

After every defensive play I'm still looking for Hawk to show up on the pile 2 seconds late.

[ReginaldDwight]

After every defensive play I'm still looking for Hawk to show up on the pile 2 seconds late.

Why Jake Ryan does that except he never makes it to the pile.

[rilamann]

AJ Hawk being a starter for as long as he was says a hell of a lot more about the incompetence of the Packer's front office than it does about AJ Hawk.

That said I would take Hawk over Jake Ryan and it's not even close.That says more about Jake Ryan than it does about AJ Hawk.

[Prickle]

If Hawk proves anything, it's that maybe fans should be careful what they wish for. The last time the Packers had a top draft pick, this is who they ended up with. So even if the team tanks this year, is anyone honestly confident that TT will actually select the "difference maker" that many on here seem to think is a given with a top-10 draft slot?

And more importantly, even if they happen to land a "difference maker" from a top-10 pick, will it actually make that much of a "difference"? One great player is not gonna save this defense. The only thing that will is a complete overhaul, starting at the top. For all we know, there may actually be 3-4 great players on our defense already, but possibly haven't been given the opportunity to shine due to an archaic, inflexible scheme.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Dom is 100% to blame; there is an obvious lack of talent on this roster. But not so much that justifies the defense being absolute garbage for almost his entire tenure. Good coaches can find a way to turn lemons into lemonade; bad coaches turn lemons into poop. I think we all know where Capers sits on this spectrum.

[BUCKnation]

Yeah, Jake Ryan is bad. That Joe Thomas injury has been a sneaky contribution to the current state of the D. The depth at that position is bad to start, but at least Thomas is quite mobile.