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Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox

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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#581 » by bizarro » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:26 pm

msiris wrote:
Prickle wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
We can't? Okay.


Present to me any single play that was a for-sure TD, that was only missed because Hornibrook just overthrew his wide open receiver.
Not for TDs but he was way off on a lot of throws.


Yep. Horni is just not a good candidate for an FBS starting qb. He absolutely killed Wisco early w his utter inability to read the pass rush or the proper timing of his screens. He misfired on 3-4 absolutely wide open screen plays that would have given Wisco momentum and their defense rest. He was repeatedly high and behind over the middle on crossing routes. Missed Fumagali (perhaps, could have caught the pass) wide open on a crossing pattern in the 2nd half. Any time there was a modicum of pressure he got rattled and threw wildly off his back foot. He was the sifference between contender and FBS pretender. The defense gave up huggggge plays, yes. But, they held serve when they absolutely needed to and it sure helped that OSU left 1-2 additional 50 yd td’s on the field w untimely drops. It didn’t matter. OSU knew if they held point stuffing the run game, w some semblance of a pass rush, they had the secondary talent to render a sub-par qb like Hornibrook ineffective.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#582 » by Bernman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 4:41 pm

I guess we're going to have to eat it, at least at the QB position, in the bowl game too. It's delusional to think against better opposition which Hornibrook is theoretically insufficient against and has basically been proven it already that we should go in a different direction. Coan is a freshman so he doesn't give us a better shot, even though he can move his feet properly, look through reads, occasionally pull the ball down and run if need be, and has the arm strength to fit it through some seams downfield.

Don't think it's delusional to at least want to switch midgame when Hornibrook has proven a failure again. Next offseason we can't see some rationalization too that we have to stick with a guy who has around the highest INT in the nation while not being able to make plays because we won for quite a while in spite of him and has seniority. We have to dash another season's contendership hopes first and not put a clipboard in his hand again to hurt his feelings.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#583 » by Triple 7 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 5:09 pm

Prickle wrote: Sure, I root for them, and I "care" when they're relevant, but when they're not, I tune out


There's a term for that. It's called bandwagon fan.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#584 » by GB_Packers » Sun Dec 3, 2017 5:43 pm

Prickle wrote:Here's the thing that separates me from other Badger fans - I really don't care. I'm a diehard Brewers, Bucks, and Packers fan, but I'm just not emotionally invested in UW sports. Sure, I root for them, and I "care" when they're relevant, but when they're not, I tune out (like I already have for the Badger basketball team this year).

As a result, I'm always able to look at Badger sports from an objective point of view, because my opinions aren't emotion-based like they may be when I'm talking about the Brewers, Bucks, and Packers.

So, naturally, it's easy to see how after a loss in one of the biggest games in the history of Badger Football, people would naturally lash out at me for saying things that no one WANTS to hear, even though they are the things that EVERYONE who isn't a Badger fan would naturally be saying.

So while most people around the country would agree with me when I say the Badgers were just simply "outmatched", emotional Badger fans will wholeheartedly disagree, even if it defies logic. Emotional fans will ignore facts and make excuses. It's called denial, and it's a very natural first response. In time, most of the rational fans will come to terms with the fact that the team just wasn't on the same level as its opponent.



Well at least the delusional train of thought they were overmatched makes sense now. God bless the ignore feature on this site. So long bandwagon fan.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#585 » by Profound23 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:10 pm

I still can’t believe Hornibrook couldn’t complete wide open screen passes. Screen passes? We talkin’ about screen passes.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#586 » by coolhandluke121 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:16 pm

Profound23 wrote:I still can’t believe Hornibrook couldn’t complete wide open screen passes. Screen passes? We talkin’ about screen passes.


Throwing 10-foot passes 5 feet too high? Why not?

I thought they should have worked the short passing game all day regardless of Hornibrook's deficiencies though. He does tend to get in a good rhythm eventually, and their run game was going NOWHERE. I know you usually say you have to be patient with the run game, but OSU was clearly trying to take the run game away and had the personnel to do it. The downside of OSU's advantage is that they're extremely vulnerable to the short passing game (their big, burly linebackers would have trouble covering you or me in the short passing game), but the Badgers wasted too many plays trying to force the run game instead of taking what the defense gave them.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#587 » by chuckleslove » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:31 pm

The worst part about those missed screen passes is that they were there all night. OSU kept bringing lots of pressure and if we had hit those passes they would have gone for big gains most of the time.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#588 » by El Duderino » Sun Dec 3, 2017 9:21 pm

trwi7 wrote:
GB_Packers wrote:Nah it’s the hottest of hot takes. Outmatched was the curb stomping 59-0 loss back in 2014.


You can get curb stomped even though the scoreboard doesn't show it. You can win a game while being curb stomped.

James1980 is spot on. Barrett missed a ton of open guys that were going to go untouched for TD's. Ohio State's defense dominated us to less than 2 yards per carry. Hornibrook completed less than half his passes and even on passes he did complete there were some tight windows where the guy was barely open.


For all of the crap Hornibrook is getting, the Badgers OL deserves the most blame for the loss. They got dominated by the Ohio St. front seven. Hornibrook was constantly in 2nd and/or 3rd and long situations whenever we ran the ball because the OL couldn't create any of the big holes that Ohio St backs had for big gains.

Ohio St rushing yards-- 42 for 238

Wisconsin rushing yards-- 32 for 60

Not only that, the Badgers pass rush was anemic most of the game and Hornibrook was consistently under pressure. It's amazing the score was as close as it was given we had zero running game and pass rush.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#589 » by Bernman » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:42 pm

El Duderino wrote:For all of the crap Hornibrook is getting, the Badgers OL deserves the most blame for the loss. They got dominated by the Ohio St. front seven. Hornibrook was constantly in 2nd and/or 3rd and long situations whenever we ran the ball because the OL couldn't create any of the big holes that Ohio St backs had for big gains.

Ohio St rushing yards-- 42 for 238

Wisconsin rushing yards-- 32 for 60

Not only that, the Badgers pass rush was anemic most of the game and Hornibrook was consistently under pressure. It's amazing the score was as close as it was given we had zero running game and pass rush.


On this level, if the opponent loads the box with 8 or 9 because they don't respect the pass (cause comes first), you can't expect to run right through them. This is not Indiana or Purdue. We need to be more multi-dimensional if we want to expect to beat the upper echelon with any sort of regularity finally. There's been a glass ceiling recently, and to some degree forever.

They can stack the box with 8 or 9, and pressure/hit the qb on the way to the rb, as they say. So it's incumbent on the qb to buy a reasonable amount of time with solid footwork and make a play over the top in 1 v. 1's. Again, you have to expect some amount of pressure against the bigger schools or in the NFL. Not going to get clean pockets very often. Their pass rush was nothing crazy. I saw receivers open often that he had time to hit. But his back-peddling footwork takes him out of the play so often. And to offset an aggressive defense, which they were, that's where misdirection comes in. Chryst was fantastic in providing those opportunities and the most part his playcalling on the night. He was getting very creative while being sensible enough. But Hornibrook couldn't hit open rb's 5 yards downfield when it was on. Can't get to the corner on the WR option pass. Can't run a bootleg. That's solely on him.

Hornibrook is a better qb than DOB, don't get me wrong. But this situation is analogous to when he was QB in early 2012. I remember the cries from a sizable contingent were he was running for his life out there and the OL was in a sad state because they couldn't even block for runs. It proved to be a myth. We switched qb's to Stave, he displayed solid footwork in the pocket, and we moved the football sufficiently through the air and well on the ground. That team's line was: Travis Frederick, Ricky Wagner, Ryan Groy, Rob Havenstein, Kyle Costigan. 2 pro bowl types, 4 who've started many games in the NFL, and the other would have in all likelihood if injuries didn't force retirement. Don't know if there's a pro bowler on this line, but I think there's 4-5 guys who'll be regulars in the NFL (barring injury) again.

Hornibrook was the main problem last night and is against good teams. He was deservedly benched last year based on his play against them. This year late in the season he had the #1 INT rate in the country in spite of playing a tremendously soft schedule. Against the 4 good teams (didn't even play PSU or MSU) he did actually play his passing #'s have been sub-par and he's not a run threat. Doesn't even come close to meeting the Stave standard vs. good teams, let alone Tolzien or Russell.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#590 » by El Duderino » Mon Dec 4, 2017 12:44 am

Bernman wrote:
El Duderino wrote:For all of the crap Hornibrook is getting, the Badgers OL deserves the most blame for the loss. They got dominated by the Ohio St. front seven. Hornibrook was constantly in 2nd and/or 3rd and long situations whenever we ran the ball because the OL couldn't create any of the big holes that Ohio St backs had for big gains.

Ohio St rushing yards-- 42 for 238

Wisconsin rushing yards-- 32 for 60

Not only that, the Badgers pass rush was anemic most of the game and Hornibrook was consistently under pressure. It's amazing the score was as close as it was given we had zero running game and pass rush.


On this level, if the opponent loads the box with 8 or 9 because they don't respect the pass (cause comes first), you can't expect to run right through them. This is not Indiana or Purdue. We need to be more multi-dimensional if we want to expect to beat the upper echelon with any sort of regularity finally. There's been a glass ceiling recently, and to some degree forever.


It wasn't an 8 or 9 man box every time we tried to run the ball and part of why there was a 8-9 man box on some of those runs are Chryst often puts out formations with 3 TE's, 2 TE's+ a FB, and just a single receiver.

Sure we throw out of those formations sometimes, but Ohio St isn't going to fear one of those tight ends going over the top for a 50 yard gain. When Chryst went with those power sets though, our line and tight ends kept getting their assses whipped. We ran the ball 30 times and lost the battle up front on about 28 of them. Never once did Taylor have a seam to gash for a big run.

FWIW, I'm not being naive about the myriad of shortcomings of Hornibrook, but there is no way around the fact that the Ohio St front seven yet again whipped the Badgers OL. That Ohio St safety playing in the box barely had to make a play because his defensive line and linebackers had already blown up our OL/TE's trying to block them.

Ohio St also has the type of talent and speed in the secondary to just man up our receivers and not fear getting run past. I love our young receivers, best group by far in a long time, but it took great catches downfield while blanketed. On the flip side, Ohio St 5-6 times had receivers running absolutely wide open downfield, Barret just kept making bad throws and keeping the Badgers in the game.

We certainly need a better and more mobile QB to compete with the truly elite teams out there, but the overall type of talent Meyer brings to Ohio St compared to what we can sticks out in games like this. If our OL doesn't show up better, it's so tough to beat them.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#591 » by Lippo » Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:37 am

Yeah, If Horni could have done what Hundley did in that last drive, we win that game. Just a threat to run changes the whole defensive game-plan. Hell Vick, Kaep and Wilson changed of Packers drafts more than any other factor.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#592 » by RiotPunch » Mon Dec 4, 2017 8:02 am

Prickle wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
Prickle wrote:

Really? Now who's being dense?

GTFO. **** troll.


Really?

Sorry, man. I was very intoxicated when I posted that. Like VERY intoxicated. One eyeing posts while drunk and pissed, I for some reason chose this to channel my rage.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#593 » by coolhandluke121 » Mon Dec 4, 2017 3:38 pm

Lippo wrote:Yeah, If Horni could have done what Hundley did in that last drive, we win that game. Just a threat to run changes the whole defensive game-plan. Hell Vick, Kaep and Wilson changed of Packers drafts more than any other factor.


Give Barrett Hornibrook's legs and they're practically the same player. Barrett might seem more poised but I think it's only because he knows he can buy himself time. He's basically another Hundley and IMO will be a total bust in the NFL.

If these teams played 10 times, they'd probably split 8 games where the team who plays less crappy wins, and I'd only be able to watch about 3 of them. OSU would have one blowout win and maybe one solid win where both teams played well.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#594 » by Kerb Hohl » Mon Dec 4, 2017 3:45 pm

El Duderino wrote:
Bernman wrote:
El Duderino wrote:For all of the crap Hornibrook is getting, the Badgers OL deserves the most blame for the loss. They got dominated by the Ohio St. front seven. Hornibrook was constantly in 2nd and/or 3rd and long situations whenever we ran the ball because the OL couldn't create any of the big holes that Ohio St backs had for big gains.

Ohio St rushing yards-- 42 for 238

Wisconsin rushing yards-- 32 for 60

Not only that, the Badgers pass rush was anemic most of the game and Hornibrook was consistently under pressure. It's amazing the score was as close as it was given we had zero running game and pass rush.


On this level, if the opponent loads the box with 8 or 9 because they don't respect the pass (cause comes first), you can't expect to run right through them. This is not Indiana or Purdue. We need to be more multi-dimensional if we want to expect to beat the upper echelon with any sort of regularity finally. There's been a glass ceiling recently, and to some degree forever.


It wasn't an 8 or 9 man box every time we tried to run the ball and part of why there was a 8-9 man box on some of those runs are Chryst often puts out formations with 3 TE's, 2 TE's+ a FB, and just a single receiver.

Sure we throw out of those formations sometimes, but Ohio St isn't going to fear one of those tight ends going over the top for a 50 yard gain. When Chryst went with those power sets though, our line and tight ends kept getting their assses whipped. We ran the ball 30 times and lost the battle up front on about 28 of them. Never once did Taylor have a seam to gash for a big run.

FWIW, I'm not being naive about the myriad of shortcomings of Hornibrook, but there is no way around the fact that the Ohio St front seven yet again whipped the Badgers OL. That Ohio St safety playing in the box barely had to make a play because his defensive line and linebackers had already blown up our OL/TE's trying to block them.

Ohio St also has the type of talent and speed in the secondary to just man up our receivers and not fear getting run past. I love our young receivers, best group by far in a long time, but it took great catches downfield while blanketed. On the flip side, Ohio St 5-6 times had receivers running absolutely wide open downfield, Barret just kept making bad throws and keeping the Badgers in the game.

We certainly need a better and more mobile QB to compete with the truly elite teams out there, but the overall type of talent Meyer brings to Ohio St compared to what we can sticks out in games like this. If our OL doesn't show up better, it's so tough to beat them.


You nailed it once again. Ohio State was basically as good or better than Wisconsin in rush defense this year. They were slightly worse, statistically, but they played a better schedule so I'd call it pretty even. I don't think it was a 100% bet to happen, but we've seen the Badger run game just have zero chance against the big boys sometimes. Forever. Since the Dayne years. And it happened.

What people are saying is true that Hornibrook having better tools would've helped. Bern was right all year and I never really disagree. I was pretty drunk during this game so didn't have the usual deep analysis that I generally would have, but Horni played "OK" given the circumstances. That wasn't enough. Barrett, who is much better, actually had a pretty bad game as some noted missing some wide open passes. You can basically use the cliche that Ohio State made one more big play than the Badgers. Literally. Badgers had the pick 6 and probably one other big play I'm forgetting to get their 2 scores. Ohio State had the 3 TDs on long plays or set up by long plays.

Nothing about the game surprised me, really. Ohio State was a 6 point favorite by the metrics and it happened. It sucks, but this is life as a Badger fan.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#595 » by El Duderino » Mon Dec 4, 2017 11:47 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
Lippo wrote:Yeah, If Horni could have done what Hundley did in that last drive, we win that game. Just a threat to run changes the whole defensive game-plan. Hell Vick, Kaep and Wilson changed of Packers drafts more than any other factor.


Give Barrett Hornibrook's legs and they're practically the same player. Barrett might seem more poised but I think it's only because he knows he can buy himself time. He's basically another Hundley and IMO will be a total bust in the NFL.


Yea, as a passer Barrett wasn't impressive outside of that first long TD pass. He threw an ugly pick 6, another bad pick, nearly a third, and missed 3-4 totally wide open receivers for easy touchdowns. His second TD pass was a WR screen where two Badger DB's missed the tackle.

People here would be savaging Hornibrook if he blew those multiple wide open TD's, along with that same pick 6.

Barrett can avoid pressure and run for first downs though, while Hornibrook is immobile. The biggest difference.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#596 » by Prickle » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:43 am

RiotPunch wrote:
Prickle wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:GTFO. **** troll.


Really?

Sorry, man. I was very intoxicated when I posted that. Like VERY intoxicated. One eyeing posts while drunk and pissed, I for some reason chose this to channel my rage.


Lol. All good. Been there. 90% of the time I post is when I'm drunk. :lol:
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#597 » by Prickle » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:54 am

ReginaldDwight wrote:
Prickle wrote:Here's the thing that separates me from other Badger fans - I really don't care. I'm a diehard Brewers, Bucks, and Packers fan, but I'm just not emotionally invested in UW sports. Sure, I root for them, and I "care" when they're relevant, but when they're not, I tune out (like I already have for the Badger basketball team this year).

As a result, I'm always able to look at Badger sports from an objective point of view, because my opinions aren't emotion-based like they may be when I'm talking about the Brewers, Bucks, and Packers.


Me too buddy, in reality I loathe UW for a variety of reasons, but to say they were completely outmatched last night is a garbage take man. One seam route a WR screen and two missed tackles up the gut likely cost them this game, even with their UW Lax level of QB. OSU has talent no doubt, but to act like they were completely run off the field when they have the ball with 3 min left and a chance to win is an absurd take based on a game they clawed their way back into after the defense wet the bed early.


Fair enough. I guess my argument is that just because the Badgers had a "chance" to win the game with a TD, doesn't mean they were actually "close" to winning it. The offense showed no signs of life the entire game, and on the final drive it did exactly what it had done for most of the game - sputtered out.
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#598 » by Prickle » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:09 am

Triple 7 wrote:
Prickle wrote: Sure, I root for them, and I "care" when they're relevant, but when they're not, I tune out


There's a term for that. It's called bandwagon fan.


Yep. So? Never pretended to be anything other than that. Doesn't make my opinions invalid, I'm still watching the same game you are. Yeah, I really wanted them to win, but my emotional investment is minimal, so I'm not gonna be depressed for two weeks after the game like I was after the Packers 2014 collapse in Seattle.

It's actually kind of refreshing to be able to root for a team, but not get bent out of shape when they lose. It keeps me from saying stupid sh*t like "we lost because of the refs", when it was clearly obvious that the only reason they lost was because they played like garbage. And why did they play like garbage? Quite simply, the other team was (and is) better. Period.

Let's see how diehard all you Badger basketball fans are this year...
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Re: Big 10 Championship - Ohio State vs. THE Wisconsin Badgers - 7:17 PM - Fox 

Post#599 » by Prickle » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:36 am

GB_Packers wrote:
Prickle wrote:Here's the thing that separates me from other Badger fans - I really don't care. I'm a diehard Brewers, Bucks, and Packers fan, but I'm just not emotionally invested in UW sports. Sure, I root for them, and I "care" when they're relevant, but when they're not, I tune out (like I already have for the Badger basketball team this year).

As a result, I'm always able to look at Badger sports from an objective point of view, because my opinions aren't emotion-based like they may be when I'm talking about the Brewers, Bucks, and Packers.

So, naturally, it's easy to see how after a loss in one of the biggest games in the history of Badger Football, people would naturally lash out at me for saying things that no one WANTS to hear, even though they are the things that EVERYONE who isn't a Badger fan would naturally be saying.

So while most people around the country would agree with me when I say the Badgers were just simply "outmatched", emotional Badger fans will wholeheartedly disagree, even if it defies logic. Emotional fans will ignore facts and make excuses. It's called denial, and it's a very natural first response. In time, most of the rational fans will come to terms with the fact that the team just wasn't on the same level as its opponent.



Well at least the delusional train of thought they were overmatched makes sense now. God bless the ignore feature on this site. So long bandwagon fan.


K....later!

Yikes. People sure got pretty hyped up about my "overmatched" statement. Not sure what it is about that word that triggers so many fans, but the truth is, OSU IS the BETTER team. They always were. That doesn't mean that WI couldn't have won this game, but there's a reason they were underdogs, despite being undefeated and ranked above the Buckeyes. The Badgers had a cake schedule and the CFP opportunity kinda fell into their laps. With no signature wins under their belt, all they had to do was win ONE game against an elite opponent. They failed. Oh well.

The Badgers offense was completely shut down. The great running game they relied on all year? Annihilated. Despite getting torched on a few plays, it was only the defense that kept the game close. They simply got beat by a better team. I (regrettably) chose the word "outmatched"; you can use whatever word you'd like to describe it. The result is still the same...

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