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2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49)

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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1081 » by MikeIsGood » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:10 pm

Chiming in to say how incredibly over both Jordy and Cobb I am. I've been done with Cobb much longer, but Jordy didn't have it this year. If we can restructure his deal to be significantly cheaper and keep him as a red zone threat then I'd keep him (he and Rodgers obviously have a connection), but otherwise I'm ready to move on.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1082 » by rilamann » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 pm

Jordy Nelson is almost at that level where he's just embarrassing himself by not retiring. Cobb is still ok but he's the oldest 27 in NFL history. The Packers are in desperate need of a #1 WR. I like Adams a lot, but he's a #2. Cut Jordy, move TY back to WR and draft a a top WR prospect and I think we might be ok.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1083 » by rilamann » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:53 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Cleveland appears to be set up with a "what might have been" GB front office with Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf.

Will be interesting to see if in three years the Packers made the right decision. My gut tells me I'd prefer the CLE front office people.



This.

I'm pretty optimistic about Gut at GM but that's about it, not a fan of the Pettine hire at all.

The fact that Mike McCarthy is still the head coach of the Packers gives everything the Packers are doing zero credibility. You clean house and the #1 guy who needed to be fired is the one guy who still has his job. Only the Packers, or maybe the old Browns....lol.

Edit to add: I do like the return of Philbin even though our offensive talent isn't what it was when he left for Miami. That said I think Philbin is a high quality OC. So Gut and Philbin I am a fan of.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1084 » by Flames24Rulz » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm

rilamann wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Cleveland appears to be set up with a "what might have been" GB front office with Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf.

Will be interesting to see if in three years the Packers made the right decision. My gut tells me I'd prefer the CLE front office people.



This.

I'm pretty optimistic about Gut at GM but that's about it, not a fan of the Pettine hire at all.

The fact that Mike McCarthy is still the head coach of the Packers gives everything the Packers are doing zero credibility. You clean house and the #1 guy who needed to be fired is the one guy who still has his job. Only the Packers, or maybe the old Browns....lol.

Edit to add: I do like the return of Philbin even thorough our offensive talent isn't what it was when he left for Miami. That said I think Philbin is a high quality OC. So Gut and Philbin I am a fan of.


I'm interested in the reasoning as to why people aren't behind the Pettine hire. I don't get it.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1085 » by crkone » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:22 pm

Time to post this again:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/sports/football/nfl-speed-leonard-fournette.html

As a receiving group, the Raiders are the second slowest in the N.F.L., according to Sportradar. If we look at every pass play in the N.F.L. this season through Week 16, and then average the top speed of each receiver across all of those plays, the Rams have the fastest group with an average of 13.32 m.p.h. The Raiders, at 11.96, are slower than every other team except for the Packers, who are more than a mile and a half per hour slower than the Rams at 11.74 m.p.h.


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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1086 » by bizarro » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:48 pm

Flames24Rulz wrote:
rilamann wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Cleveland appears to be set up with a "what might have been" GB front office with Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf.

Will be interesting to see if in three years the Packers made the right decision. My gut tells me I'd prefer the CLE front office people.



This.

I'm pretty optimistic about Gut at GM but that's about it, not a fan of the Pettine hire at all.

The fact that Mike McCarthy is still the head coach of the Packers gives everything the Packers are doing zero credibility. You clean house and the #1 guy who needed to be fired is the one guy who still has his job. Only the Packers, or maybe the old Browns....lol.

Edit to add: I do like the return of Philbin even thorough our offensive talent isn't what it was when he left for Miami. That said I think Philbin is a high quality OC. So Gut and Philbin I am a fan of.


I'm interested in the reasoning as to why people aren't behind the Pettine hire. I don't get it.


I'm not going to speak for others, but, even though I'm personally a fan of the Pettine hire, I understand the reluctance:

Pettine plays a hybrid scheme across, really, 3 styles of defensive alignments. Within those variations, there are subtleties. Given the Packers' defensive units' complete inability to adjust to Capers mixed scheme there is probably a distinct skepticism along the lines of: "Why will it be any different under, arguably, a more diverse and harder-to-grasp scheme?"

My proposition is, if you look into Pettine's philosophies, he targets the heady players who can handle the thinking part of the scheme. Those that have more the raw talent side of things (I'm thinking of a Josh Jones here) are not required to 'think'. These players are given the mandate of let it rip. Just flat play. So, it's also hybrid in that sense. I think Capers' schemes required too much thinking across the board. I think Pettine allows for both the smarter player and the more instinctual players. We'll see.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1087 » by Flames24Rulz » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 pm

The SI article that Bedard wrote on Pettine a couple of years ago is an absolute must read for anyone who isn't a fan of the hire. The communication aspect of the schemes should absolutely be improved over what they have been the last several years.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1088 » by El Duderino » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:26 am

M-C-G wrote:4M take it or leave it. About the same for Cobb, both these guys are incredibly replaceable and have already made way too much money off of Rodgers arm. I'd outright cut both, cut Clay, probably cut Bulaga, not resign Burnett and try to add some impact pieces..


I'm fine with cutting either or both of Jordy/Cobb, but i'd definitely bring back Clay if he took a moderate pay cut.

While Clay clearly isn't the player he once was, he can still make some impact plays on a defensive unit badly lacking in that ability, especially when it comes to rushing the passer.

Cut him and we go into next year with just injury prone Perry as an outside pass rusher. Every team needs not only starters who can rush the passer, they also need depth for if/when those guys get hurt and during games when they get tired.

Remove Clay and then Gutekunst will need to draft/acquire multiple edge pass rushers who can be productive right away and it's not as if the team doesn't have a myriad of other holes on the roster to fill. We have enough cap room to keep Mathews on a restructured deal so long as he's willing to do so. The roster has to many needs already without creating another hole.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1089 » by El Duderino » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 am

rilamann wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Cleveland appears to be set up with a "what might have been" GB front office with Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf.

Will be interesting to see if in three years the Packers made the right decision. My gut tells me I'd prefer the CLE front office people.



This.

I'm pretty optimistic about Gut at GM but that's about it, not a fan of the Pettine hire at all.

The fact that Mike McCarthy is still the head coach of the Packers gives everything the Packers are doing zero credibility. You clean house and the #1 guy who needed to be fired is the one guy who still has his job. Only the Packers, or maybe the old Browns....lol.

Edit to add: I do like the return of Philbin even though our offensive talent isn't what it was when he left for Miami. That said I think Philbin is a high quality OC. So Gut and Philbin I am a fan of.


Ted was by far the #1 guy who needed to be fired first. He was the one running the entire show, from deciding who was on the roster to who was the head coach. Until he was removed and his unlimited power, nothing was going to change.

Now we finally have a new defensive coordinator, a new GM in charge of picking players for that defense which Ted struggled badly at, and while i'd rather a new head coach was also installed, at least McCarthy is pretty much only on a one year deal without the protection Thompson provided.

Come the end of next season, if Gutekunst doesn't feel the team produced as he felt was warranted and thus he goes to Murphy wanting a change at head coach, i don't see Murphy denying his new GM on something that important.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1090 » by paulpressey25 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:41 am

Heard excerpts from Mark Murphy interview today in 105.7 The Fan. They asked him why the new power structure. Murphy said he felt that he personally needed to get more involved on the football side of operations. Also said this way Gutekunst only has to focus on scouting players and not things like contracts, etc.

Make no mistake, Mark Murphy is now our GM. He seems to have three talented guys working for him. We will see if this works or not.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1091 » by Balls2TheWalls » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:08 am

Flames24Rulz wrote:I'm interested in the reasoning as to why people aren't behind the Pettine hire. I don't get it.


Yep. Nothing like signing up a guy who has done nothing but run dominant defenses after being one of the worst defenses in the league and still having people who are upset about it. Makes sense.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1092 » by Profound23 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:17 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Heard excerpts from Mark Murphy interview today in 105.7 The Fan. They asked him why the new power structure. Murphy said he felt that he personally needed to get more involved on the football side of operations. Also said this way Gutekunst only has to focus on scouting players and not things like contracts, etc.

Make no mistake, Mark Murphy is now our GM. He seems to have three talented guys working for him. We will see if this works or not.


He also wouldn’t deny there was a rift between Ted and Mike this year. Something about Mike complaining Ted was absent more this year, Murphy stuttered over his words them started talking about how good Ted was in the past.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1093 » by LittleRooster » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:49 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Heard excerpts from Mark Murphy interview today in 105.7 The Fan. They asked him why the new power structure. Murphy said he felt that he personally needed to get more involved on the football side of operations. Also said this way Gutekunst only has to focus on scouting players and not things like contracts, etc.

Make no mistake, Mark Murphy is now our GM. He seems to have three talented guys working for him. We will see if this works or not.


I think the structure is messed up but he’s not our GM. Brian wouldn’t have taken the job otherwise. But it does set him up to meddle. We’ll see


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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1094 » by LittleRooster » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:06 am

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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1095 » by books » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 pm

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Good for Edgar Bennett. He was a very good player for us and a very good coach. Maybe the OC was too much, or maybe this was just a tough year for anyone to be OC for the Packers. He should be a great receivers coach for the Raiders.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1096 » by MickeyDavis » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Murphy has no experience on the talent side of the operation. Being a player a few decades ago means nothing. He's been an athletic director and now Packers president. He was hired to work the business side. I don't like this new "structure" one bit.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1097 » by Dandridgefav » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:34 pm

Murphy seems to have taken the opportunity to give himself more opportunity to exert his influence. Since Mark totally surprised and delighted me that he moved so decisively taking Ted out now, rather than waiting another year - I am going to give Murphy the benefit of the doubt regarding the structure. Murphy is positioned to mitigate disagreement and insure quality communication - both good things. Murphy had to give Ball direct access/reporting to him or Ball would have left as well. I'm glad Ball is still our cap guy since Gut will finally give Ball something to do. This reporting structure also is probably more appealing to head coach candidiates. I think Murphy will support Gut having defacto total control as long as Gut demonstrates he can deliver the talent. Then Ball figures how to pay the talent and McCarthy puts it to work on the field. Seems pretty straight forward. I think the organizational structure looks more like

---- Murphy ----
! ------ ! -------- !
! ----- Gut ----- !
Ball ---!--- McCarthy
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1098 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:56 am

I don't like any of the structure but I can live with the head coach rolling up to Murphy. Firing a head coach in any pro organization is a big deal and there's imput on that from a typical owner anyway.

I'm happy ball stayed but I don't get why he reports to Murphy. So say Gutes wants and FA or to keep a guy but ball doesn't want to pay what it takes who's got the final say? Murphy? That whole aspect seems weird and troubling.

Hope it works out but there are some red flags.
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1099 » by Dandridgefav » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:33 pm

It seems to me that Murphy's reporting structure will allow him to witness any general or specific areas of disagreement as they develop organically in real time - even before his 3 co-bosses do - IF - he is paying close attention - as he will hear each of their opinions on potential actions and COULD detect serious core philosophical differences between the 3 being revealed that could foster substantial foundational conflicts over time (3 years?). In that case, Murphy can always move the power accordingly.

It is an interesting dynamic - if over the past 5 years McCarthy had equal power with Ted - would McCarthy have proven to be astute in identifying a player that is truely worth the money that Ted declined to sign (or even offer) thus consistently missing opportunities to land quality players OR would McCarthy demonstrate that he would just pursue any big time performer based on their career to date - without close review of the most recent trending of that player's current condition in regards to health, athletic measureables, production, scheme compatability, locker-room impact, etc. that would lead to many big-dollar signings that flop?
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Re: 2018 Off Season - Pettine New DC (pg 46), Wolf to CLE (pg 49) 

Post#1100 » by M-C-G » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:41 pm

Yeah no problem with them reporting to Murphy. This is an interim step while Mac fights for his job. We underwhelm this season, Gute gets to fire Mac and hire his own coach under him. Not a big deal, but obvious reaction to a lot of people feeling like they weren’t heard the last couple of years and blaming that for the team under performing


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