GT: Bucky at Iowa - 7:30 - Fox - GUS JOHNSON UGH

[Kerb Hohl]

Complaining about our QBs is blowing my mind right now. Like, do some of you not realize the absolute dog **** pile that is college football QB's.

From 2001-2017 Badger QB's (the ones who got decent attempts, I didn't count guys like Coan last year who threw 5 passes) had a 137.2 QB Rating. For comparison. These are some of the QB's who had QB Ratings between 135 and 140 the last several years.

Ryan Finley
Luke Falk
Drew Lock
J.T. Barrett
Josh Rosen
Josh Allen and DeShone Kizer were just above at around 145
Jake Browning
Connor Cook
Paxton Lynch
Jameis Winston was just above at 145
Blake Bortles and Landry Jones were around 145 in 2012
Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr and Brock Osweiler were around 140-145 in 2011.

This is what we've consistently gotten from our QB's. The worst year I can find for the Badgers is 113.8 when Andersen started McEvoy and completely **** up Stave. After that it was the Sherer/Evridge thing.

Yes yes yes. This coupled with the fact that the Badgers do not have a geographic advantage and scheme advantage to get good QBs should be plastered everywhere.

Hornibrook is not beyond criticism. But if you are blaming him for the shortcomings of Wisconsin every year, you are literally wasting hours and days of your life following the team. It's not going to get much better (maybe Mertz is the lucky Dekker 2-star to 5-star guy we kept). The defense or running game being underwhelming is a much bigger issue. That's something that somebody with high expectations could/should expect to be elite 4 out of every 5 years.

[MAC1987]

Complaining about our QBs is blowing my mind right now. Like, do some of you not realize the absolute dog **** pile that is college football QB's.

From 2001-2017 Badger QB's (the ones who got decent attempts, I didn't count guys like Coan last year who threw 5 passes) had a 137.2 QB Rating. For comparison. These are some of the QB's who had QB Ratings between 135 and 140 the last several years.

Ryan Finley
Luke Falk
Drew Lock
J.T. Barrett
Josh Rosen
Josh Allen and DeShone Kizer were just above at around 145
Jake Browning
Connor Cook
Paxton Lynch
Jameis Winston was just above at 145
Blake Bortles and Landry Jones were around 145 in 2012
Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr and Brock Osweiler were around 140-145 in 2011.

This is what we've consistently gotten from our QB's. The worst year I can find for the Badgers is 113.8 when Andersen started McEvoy and completely **** up Stave. After that it was the Sherer/Evridge thing.

Its not really complaining. Its just making a simple point. That is what is mind-blowing and I don't understand why you don't get it. We know who the past QBs were. We know the stats. We know where they rank. They're good....But will always be leaving you wanting more.

We usually have a good team but it is disappointing that we can't get over the hump. Simple. Why is that wrong to say?

Its funny you don't get it because this is the same thing you were saying about Christian Yelich. Exact same.

[Kerb Hohl]

Complaining about our QBs is blowing my mind right now. Like, do some of you not realize the absolute dog **** pile that is college football QB's.

From 2001-2017 Badger QB's (the ones who got decent attempts, I didn't count guys like Coan last year who threw 5 passes) had a 137.2 QB Rating. For comparison. These are some of the QB's who had QB Ratings between 135 and 140 the last several years.

Ryan Finley
Luke Falk
Drew Lock
J.T. Barrett
Josh Rosen
Josh Allen and DeShone Kizer were just above at around 145
Jake Browning
Connor Cook
Paxton Lynch
Jameis Winston was just above at 145
Blake Bortles and Landry Jones were around 145 in 2012
Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr and Brock Osweiler were around 140-145 in 2011.

This is what we've consistently gotten from our QB's. The worst year I can find for the Badgers is 113.8 when Andersen started McEvoy and completely **** up Stave. After that it was the Sherer/Evridge thing.

Its not really complaining. Its just making a simple point. That is what is mind-blowing and I don't understand why you don't get it. We know who the past QBs were. We know the stats. We know where they rank. They're good....But will always be leaving you wanting more.

We usually have a good team but it is disappointing that we can't get over the hump. Simple. Why is that wrong to say?

Its funny you don't get it because this is the same thing you were saying about Christian Yelich. Exact same.

I guess I ask what the solution is. Do you think Paul Chryst isn't going out to 4-star QBs in Texas and saying, "look what Russell Wilson did in our offense"?

Yes, he's doing that. They're also good at evaluating QB talent. They offered Graham Mertz before anyone else did, basically. Thank god for them they were able to hold on when basically every team in the nation offered.

They're not bad at developing it. Twirly's stats above show that.

I waste my time arguing this on here but it's probably even more of a waste of a time to say, "Wisconsin QBs are not great. I know it! Look at me, smart sports-thinker! We need better!" No ****. However, it's not as bad as advertised and I've repeated the reasons why Wisconsin generally has a low QB ceiling most years. They could get lucky and change it but if you think "hey, we're a top 5 team this year so come play for us" is something that is going to get a 5-star QB in...it's not.

Because Wisconsin does not have the advantages of Ohio State, we've chosen this path. It's really good from what any other similar state team would get. It has its downfall in that we may not always have access to elite QB play.

[midranger]

I don't think it's insane to lament that we've never recruited/developed a great QB in the past 30 years. We've had a top 15-ish program over that time frame. We've almost always had a good to great offensive line and running game. We've seemingly always had at least 1 low end NFL receiving option whether at TE or WR, usually both.It almost seems crazy that we've never found a super dynamic guy just by dumb luck. Tolzien was probably the best we recruited/developed during our Alvarez and after years. He was good, maybe very good his senior year. But still, he was a one dimensional guy reliant on an elite running game/OL, and play action to multiple NFL receiving options. It almost seems impossible that we haven't found anyone better in 30 years.

But we haven't, and I'm fairly certain it's not because the coaches haven't tried.

[midranger]

To get back to me bitching about the refs in this game.

I rewatched it and remembered one play that sparked some mild outrage in me at the time. It was during the drive that bridged the 3rd and 4th quarter on the second down play right before the Ferguson drop on 3rd down. It was the one play that Hornibrook scrambled. He kind of awkwardly went down on his own and then an Iowa player came and hit him. The ref spotted the ball a full yard back of where he was, as though he thought it was a slide (it wasn't). However, if this were the case, he should have been compelled to throw the flag for a late hit on a sliding QB. Especially after that weak late hit call on the sideline. However, he just got it completely wrong, spotting it at least a yard back setting us up for 3rd and a long 3 rather than 3rd and 2.

Not saying it would have changed the subsequent play call or outcome of the drive, but it may have. Regardless, it was one more example of the **** of those refs on Saturday night.

Watch on YouTube

Play at 25:20

[Kerb Hohl]

I don't think it's insane to lament that we've never recruited/developed a great QB in the past 30 years. We've had a top 15-ish program over that time frame. We've almost always had a good to great offensive line and running game. We've seemingly always had at least 1 low end NFL receiving option whether at TE or WR, usually both.It almost seems crazy that we've never found a super dynamic guy just by dumb luck. Tolzien was probably the best we recruited/developed during our Alvarez and after years. He was good, maybe very good his senior year. But still, he was a one dimensional guy reliant on an elite running game/OL, and play action to multiple NFL receiving options. It almost seems impossible that we haven't found anyone better in 30 years.

But we haven't, and I'm fairly certain it's not because the coaches haven't tried.

That's fine. I do think that by sheer luck we maybe should've had a bit more luck with getting a stud recruit. All of that said, it's different than sitting every week and getting mad that the QB isn't Russell Wilson. It's not the problem given how they have to win and rarely ever is.

[Xanadu]

Yes, I know, Mertz.

Hornibrook is good enough to get them to the playoffs with a loaded supporting cast. Almost happened last year. Just can’t carry them there.

My point has always been there are 2 types of fans:

Those who appreciate how ridiculously “outkicking their coverage” Wisconsin does every year and accepts the premise of appreciating a decent, top 30th nationally QB.

Of those that say, “hey, you’re ranked high! I expect a stud QB!”

Playing QB in our offense has to one of the easiet jobs, 8-9 in the box, PA works like a charm, I think scrubs like Stanley could have better success than Hornibrook TBH. Horni had a good stat line but he left a ton of big plays on the field by underthrowing wide open WR's downfield and allowing CB's to recover...

I just think having a QB that could make a defender miss and run for 5-20 yards consistently would bring our offense to another level, and QBs that can do that are not that hard to find. I'm sad that Mertz cant run either....

That’s hilarious. Either you’re asking them to recruit DeShaun Watson or you’re asking them to cycle through all of the dual-threat QBs Andersen brought in and Chryst had to move to safety. QBs that can run like that and also actually throw don’t grow on trees.

Yeah I am sorry but somehow expecting us to recruit a top dual threat QB is wildly unrealistic. Why would they come play in offense that isn't tailored to their game? We run a pro style offense and even with our great offensive line no dual threat QB is coming here to get half the rushing attempts he would get almost anywhere else. I get the Horni bashing for sure but if you just take a step back you realize he is a decent QB especially in this system.I mean honestly what QB from the past 5 years did we really have a shot at that would replace Horni?

[midranger]

I’m trying to read between the lines and see both side of this argument, which is kind of silly because I’m sure the coaches want top-tier QBs, they recruit top-tier QBs, they successfully recruited a top-tier QB for next year.

Anyway. My thought is no one is looking for a dual threat QB, but after watching 7(?) years of Stave and Hornibrook, and to a lesser extent Tolzien before them I think people are aching for a QB with any element of pocket awareness/presence, ability to throw on the move, and at least functional athleticism to pick up a first down on 3rd and 3 when the play is covered and there is 10 yards of open field in front of him.

Both Stave and Hornibrook have looked like baby giraffes taking their first steps the few times they scrambled. Neither can maintain accuracy on the move.

I don’t think it has to be up to a Russell Wilson standard (he is a multiyear pro bowl nfl QB after all) though we all saw how the threat of him running read option 5 times a game and/or breaking containment on a pass play took our offense to a whole new level. Just a functional athlete, rather than a guy who needs a perfect pocket around him at all times or he loses his mind.

[Kerb Hohl]

I’m trying to read between the lines and see both side of this argument, which is kind of silly because I’m sure the coaches want top-tier QBs, they recruit top-tier QBs, they successfully recruited a top-tier QB for next year.

Anyway. My thought is no one is looking for a dual threat QB, but after watching 7(?) years of Stave and Hornibrook, and to a lesser extent Tolzien before them I think people are aching for a QB with any element of pocket awareness/presence, ability to throw on the move, and at least functional athleticism to pick up a first down on 3rd and 3 when the play is covered and there is 10 yards of open field in front of him.

Both Stave and Hornibrook have looked like baby giraffes taking their first steps the few times they scrambled. Neither can maintain accuracy on the move.

I don’t think it has to be up to a Russell Wilson standard (he is a multiyear pro bowl nfl QB after all) though we all saw how the threat of him running read option 5 times a game and/or breaking containment on a pass play took our offense to a whole new level. Just a functional athlete, rather than a guy who needs a perfect pocket around him at all times or he loses his mind.

One note: I cringe/hate watching Hornibrook have to scramble but his pocket awareness is night and day from 1-2 years ago. It's not that bad anymore.

Stave played by necessity because literally 5 guys that had some sort of wheels (McEvoy, Gillens, Kafentzis, Phillips, Houston) all lost to him in the QB battle or completely sucked. I'm not saying it's impossible to find someone that can move just a little bit and also throw the ball but even that is not a given. We have Coan who may end up in Bart Houston territory of half of the fanbase believing that "he should've started all along" but for right now, a guy that supposedly can move around the pocket but we value the accuracy of Hornibrook more.

[midranger]

I guess that what I meant in my dumb luck post. I mean finding a guy with the throwing acumen of Stave or Hornibrook (and let’s face it, neither is elite in that area) who isn’t a complete statue should have happened at some point in 25 classes since the first rose bowl. hell, its been 12 classes since we recruited Tolzien (seems impossible). Just bizzare that it hasn’t appended for a firmly second tier program. That guy wouldn’t be a heisman candidate but probably like a top fifteen in college football type guy.

We’ve had more than our fair share of guys who seem to fit that mold just completely bust forcing guys like Stave into a starting role. Coaching changes and flux haven’t helped I’m sure.

[Kerb Hohl]

I guess that what I meant in my dumb luck post. I mean finding a guy with the throwing acumen of Stave or Hornibrook (and let’s face it, neither is elite in that area) who isn’t a complete statue should have happened at some point in 25 classes since the first rose bowl. hell, its been 12 classes since we recruited Tolzien (seems impossible). Just bizzare that it hasn’t appended for a firmly second tier program. That guy wouldn’t be a heisman candidate but probably like a top fifteen in college football type guy.

We’ve had more than our fair share of guys who seem to fit that mold just completely bust forcing guys like Stave into a starting role. Coaching changes and flux haven’t helped I’m sure.

Yeah, you could also throw Bollinger in there maybe as lucking into maybe a top 15 guy, though I may be romanticizing him in hindsight a bit. He didn't throw very well (though not terrible by 2000-era college standards) but had the running ability.

I guess you could glass half full it and say that our dumb luck has been no matter what always having the 30th best QB situation in the nation other than Wilson or the Scherer/Evridge era. That's not bad.

It really interests me to see what someone like Kelly Bryant would do (he won't come to UW). Would he be markedly better than Hornibrook? Would his running offset the (at least statistically) worse passing profile? Would he turn into Russell Wilson-lite or would be benched for 75% of snaps by Hornibrook and just be a situational gadget guy?

[midranger]

I mean there have been years where our play action was so deadly, most any arm would have done.

Vivid recollections of Stave missing a wide open Abredderis like 7 times at penn state.

If you can get the safeties even more off balance by threatening a designed QB run or scramble off a broken play, my guess is it opens up even more and a guy like Bryant may be okay.

[BUCKnation]

Even pretty good QB's at UW have managed to have some pretty good staying power in the NFL, probably better than most schools. It should be easy to recruit with that in mind. Guys like Bollinger, Sorgi, and Tolzien have without looking it up, 15-20 years combined experience

[Kerb Hohl]

Even pretty good QB's at UW have managed to have some pretty good staying power in the NFL, probably better than most schools. It should be easy to recruit with that in mind. Guys like Bollinger, Sorgi, and Tolzien have without looking it up, 15-20 years combined experience

So the assumption here is that Chryst is fumbling over himself to be able to say, "hey look at all of these past QBs we've had" and failing to do a perceived easy task?

I'm sure they've been trying very hard to get elite QBs and have ended up with several good ones. They kinda lucked into Mertz and hopefully he pans out.

[BUCKnation]

Even pretty good QB's at UW have managed to have some pretty good staying power in the NFL, probably better than most schools. It should be easy to recruit with that in mind. Guys like Bollinger, Sorgi, and Tolzien have without looking it up, 15-20 years combined experience

So the assumption here is that Chryst is fumbling over himself to be able to say, "hey look at all of these past QBs we've had" and failing to do a perceived easy task?

I'm sure they've been trying very hard to get elite QBs and have ended up with several good ones. They kinda lucked into Mertz and hopefully he pans out.

More just saying I'm surprised more recruits don't realize this. For as good as teams are in the SEC, the conference as a whole has a pretty crappy track record for getting QB's to the next level. Ohio St. has most of their QB's turn into WR's is another interesting example.

[Kerb Hohl]

Even pretty good QB's at UW have managed to have some pretty good staying power in the NFL, probably better than most schools. It should be easy to recruit with that in mind. Guys like Bollinger, Sorgi, and Tolzien have without looking it up, 15-20 years combined experience

So the assumption here is that Chryst is fumbling over himself to be able to say, "hey look at all of these past QBs we've had" and failing to do a perceived easy task?

I'm sure they've been trying very hard to get elite QBs and have ended up with several good ones. They kinda lucked into Mertz and hopefully he pans out.

More just saying I'm surprised more recruits don't realize this. For as good as teams are in the SEC, the conference as a whole has a pretty crappy track record for getting QB's to the next level. Ohio St. has most of their QB's turn into WR's is another interesting example.

The conference is generally bad because it’s not fertile grounds for good QBs to recruit. Not many good HS QBs in most of the states the B10 takes up.

OSU has access to decent state talent and obviously can recruit high caliber out of state but Urban has valued the running ability of his QBs a bit more and you end up with Tebow and Pryor types.