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Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood

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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#241 » by Mags FTW » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:50 am

Skimmed Barnwell's NFL dominoes piece. Didn't have us landing AJ Green, but had us signing either Robby Anderson or Hooper depending on where Green went.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story?_slug_=predicting-2020-nfl-offseason-dominoes-eight-star-players-set-144-move-chaos&id=28600904&redirected=true
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#242 » by Frank Nova » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:03 pm

Mags FTW wrote:Skimmed Barnwell's NFL dominoes piece. Didn't have us landing AJ Green, but had us signing either Robby Anderson or Hooper depending on where Green went.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story?_slug_=predicting-2020-nfl-offseason-dominoes-eight-star-players-set-144-move-chaos&id=28600904&redirected=true
All we really need to be concerned with in FA is throwing a Godfather offer at Corey Littleton. He's a tackling machine, 1 of the fastest sideline to sideline MLBs in the game and probably the best coverage LB in the game as well. He will sure up the middle of our defense and bring stability to the run D.

Idc about 1 single thing else in FA besides bringing Littleton to GB.

Robby Anderson and Austin Hooper would be a sweet haul and even AJ Green would be sexy. But if we dont find a difference making impact MLB our defense will look almost exactly the same. And Littleton is the ONLY 1 available that can step in and give you immediate star production. Which is 100% what we finally need from the God damn position.

We've suffered through years and years of Aj Hawk, Brad Jones, Blake Martinez, BJ Goodson, Jake Ryan etc. and gotten nothing as a result for over a decade now. That can all easily change and be forgotten with signing Littleton. For **** sake just get it done.



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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#243 » by crkone » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Frank Nova wrote:
Mags FTW wrote:Skimmed Barnwell's NFL dominoes piece. Didn't have us landing AJ Green, but had us signing either Robby Anderson or Hooper depending on where Green went.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story?_slug_=predicting-2020-nfl-offseason-dominoes-eight-star-players-set-144-move-chaos&id=28600904&redirected=true
Spoiler:
All we really need to be concerned with in FA is throwing a Godfather offer at Corey Littleton. He's a tackling machine, 1 of the fastest sideline to sideline MLBs in the game and probably the best coverage LB in the game as well. He will sure up the middle of our defense and bring stability to the run D.

Idc about 1 single thing else in FA besides bringing Littleton to GB.

Robby Anderson and Austin Hooper would be a sweet haul and even AJ Green would be sexy. But if we dont find a difference making impact MLB our defense will look almost exactly the same. And Littleton is the ONLY 1 available that can step in and give you immediate star production. Which is 100% what we finally need from the God damn position.

We've suffered through years and years of Aj Hawk, Brad Jones, Blake Martinez, BJ Goodson, Jake Ryan etc. and gotten nothing as a result for over a decade now. That can all easily change and be forgotten with signing Littleton. For **** sake just get it done.



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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#244 » by RRyder823 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:10 am

Frank Nova wrote:
Mags FTW wrote:Skimmed Barnwell's NFL dominoes piece. Didn't have us landing AJ Green, but had us signing either Robby Anderson or Hooper depending on where Green went.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story?_slug_=predicting-2020-nfl-offseason-dominoes-eight-star-players-set-144-move-chaos&id=28600904&redirected=true
All we really need to be concerned with in FA is throwing a Godfather offer at Corey Littleton. He's a tackling machine, 1 of the fastest sideline to sideline MLBs in the game and probably the best coverage LB in the game as well. He will sure up the middle of our defense and bring stability to the run D.

Idc about 1 single thing else in FA besides bringing Littleton to GB.

Robby Anderson and Austin Hooper would be a sweet haul and even AJ Green would be sexy. But if we dont find a difference making impact MLB our defense will look almost exactly the same. And Littleton is the ONLY 1 available that can step in and give you immediate star production. Which is 100% what we finally need from the God damn position.

We've suffered through years and years of Aj Hawk, Brad Jones, Blake Martinez, BJ Goodson, Jake Ryan etc. and gotten nothing as a result for over a decade now. That can all easily change and be forgotten with signing Littleton. For **** sake just get it done.



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I like Littleton alot but hes not a great run defender so I wouldn't count on signing him fixing the run D. (He would stop us from getting burned in the seam though)

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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#245 » by MickeyDavis » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:04 am

Love Littleton
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#246 » by Xanadu » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:30 am

Honestly would rather go after Schobert over Littleton. Schobert is probably better in coverage and is true 3 down MLB. I think we tend to pay to much attention to speed. It's because we our MLB always seem so slow to the ball. But I think this has less to do with athletic ability rather it's their diagnostic speed. Blake and Aj are both players who react rather than act. Bishop our best run stuffer and coverage MLB in the last decade wasn't very quick. Instead he always seemed to be moving at the snap. I think Schoberts production speaks for itself and chances are he will be quite a bit cheaper. Littleton also benefited from having a great defense front keeping him relatively clean. I really don't think I am looking through those colored glasses on this one.
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#247 » by Xanadu » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:38 am

Also think Greene deserve another shot at the dime lb spot. Otherwise bigger safeties who can handle the dime aren't to hard to find. For me if MLB is the one position where production is a much better indicator of NFL success that athletic ability. Guys who always make plays at that position seem to continue do so no matter their athletic ability. Guys like Daruis Leonard or Borland who weren't elite athletes still made plays in the NFL. Also they were draft steals because they dropped because they weren't fast enough. Its why I am surprised Chris Orr isn't a 5th round grade. He is a playmaker who is always around the ball. Hopefully we get him as udfa or even as 7th rounder.
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#248 » by MickeyDavis » Yesterday 5:38 pm

McGinn is doing his annual end of season grades. Here's Gary

What the Packers are saying now is what the coaches at Michigan said about Gary during his three-years there. That is, emphasizing the potential of the player while excusing his production.

The Packers acquired another Reggie Gilbert with the 12th selection in the 2019 draft. Last season, the undrafted Gilbert, who like Gary spent his collegiate career (Arizona) playing with his hand down, ranked second at the position with one pressure every 33.5 snaps (14 ½ in 486) and had one tackle every 11.1 snaps. This season, Gary ranked fourth at the position with one pressure every 34.3 snaps (7 ½ in 257) and had one tackle every 8.0 snaps. Gilbert had 3 ½ tackles for loss whereas Gary had none. Gilbert batted down two passes whereas Gary had none. Gilbert missed three tackles whereas Gary missed four. To clear the way for Gary, the Packers traded Gilbert to Tennessee on Aug. 29 for a seventh-round draft choice; he played 294 snaps and posted one sack.

The Packers took Gary over such players as Panthers OLB Brian Burns (No. 16), Giants DT Dexter Lawrence (No. 17), Titans DT Jeffery Simmons (No. 19) and Broncos TE Noah Fant (No. 20), all of whom had much better rookie seasons and would have filled major needs in Green Bay.

It isn’t that Gary doesn’t give effort. He might pursue as well as anyone on the defense. He also plays with violent hands and considerable body snap in the run game. As a rusher, he might have an even more explosive takeoff than Za’Darius Smith, and his speed to the corner is outstanding. Then nothing happens. Gary doesn’t seem to know how to fight pressure. He needs a second move, something inside. He flies off the ball on passing downs seemingly without much of a plan and ends up getting neutralized down after down. He’s fast, powerful and tries hard. He’s just never produced.

The Packers took a player with a Wonderlic score of 9 and asked him to think his way through the transition to a foreign position. What ensued was wholly predictable. He’s just so raw in everything that he tries to do. On 24 occasions, Gary was allowed to play from a three-point stance and rush on passing downs. He’s better suited for defensive end in a 4-3 base scheme; it would be a waste of talent if the Packers bulked him up 30 pounds and asked him to play in their 3-4 base front. At this point, Gary’s best role might be inside with his hand down on passing downs. Problem is, Mike Pettine prefers playing with just one man down in those situations, and that’s Kenny Clark. Grade: D
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#249 » by Treebeard » Yesterday 5:50 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:McGinn is doing his annual end of season grades. Here's Gary

What the Packers are saying now is what the coaches at Michigan said about Gary during his three-years there. That is, emphasizing the potential of the player while excusing his production.

The Packers acquired another Reggie Gilbert with the 12th selection in the 2019 draft. Last season, the undrafted Gilbert, who like Gary spent his collegiate career (Arizona) playing with his hand down, ranked second at the position with one pressure every 33.5 snaps (14 ½ in 486) and had one tackle every 11.1 snaps. This season, Gary ranked fourth at the position with one pressure every 34.3 snaps (7 ½ in 257) and had one tackle every 8.0 snaps. Gilbert had 3 ½ tackles for loss whereas Gary had none. Gilbert batted down two passes whereas Gary had none. Gilbert missed three tackles whereas Gary missed four. To clear the way for Gary, the Packers traded Gilbert to Tennessee on Aug. 29 for a seventh-round draft choice; he played 294 snaps and posted one sack.

The Packers took Gary over such players as Panthers OLB Brian Burns (No. 16), Giants DT Dexter Lawrence (No. 17), Titans DT Jeffery Simmons (No. 19) and Broncos TE Noah Fant (No. 20), all of whom had much better rookie seasons and would have filled major needs in Green Bay.

It isn’t that Gary doesn’t give effort. He might pursue as well as anyone on the defense. He also plays with violent hands and considerable body snap in the run game. As a rusher, he might have an even more explosive takeoff than Za’Darius Smith, and his speed to the corner is outstanding. Then nothing happens. Gary doesn’t seem to know how to fight pressure. He needs a second move, something inside. He flies off the ball on passing downs seemingly without much of a plan and ends up getting neutralized down after down. He’s fast, powerful and tries hard. He’s just never produced.

The Packers took a player with a Wonderlic score of 9 and asked him to think his way through the transition to a foreign position. What ensued was wholly predictable. He’s just so raw in everything that he tries to do. On 24 occasions, Gary was allowed to play from a three-point stance and rush on passing downs. He’s better suited for defensive end in a 4-3 base scheme; it would be a waste of talent if the Packers bulked him up 30 pounds and asked him to play in their 3-4 base front. At this point, Gary’s best role might be inside with his hand down on passing downs. Problem is, Mike Pettine prefers playing with just one man down in those situations, and that’s Kenny Clark. Grade: D


Jeez, that paints a very doubtful future, to go with a disappointing first year. And lays as much of the blame on Gute and the coaches for trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. The un-written implication is that Gary might have a useful career in a different system. Maybe not stellar, but more useful.

We really need for that grim assessment to be premature.....
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#250 » by MickeyDavis » Yesterday 6:14 pm

If a player is going to be productive it generally starts to show in year 2. We'll see
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#251 » by humanrefutation » Yesterday 6:14 pm

That feedback regarding Gary seems like, in part, a coaching issue. McGinn is pointing out all of his tremendous physical tools but highlights his inability to know what to do with them. McGinn is implying with the Wonderlic score citation than Gary is stupid (it's a cheap tactic by McGinn - just come out and say what you mean), but there have been plenty of non-geniuses in this sport who have dominated the pass rush. A good coach could help put those tools to better use, IMO.
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#252 » by Treebeard » Yesterday 7:30 pm

humanrefutation wrote:That feedback regarding Gary seems like, in part, a coaching issue. McGinn is pointing out all of his tremendous physical tools but highlights his inability to know what to do with them. McGinn is implying with the Wonderlic score citation than Gary is stupid (it's a cheap tactic by McGinn - just come out and say what you mean), but there have been plenty of non-geniuses in this sport who have dominated the pass rush. A good coach could help put those tools to better use, IMO.


On that line of thought: what developmental program should the coaches have Gary working on since the NFC Championship and going into training camp?
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#253 » by crkone » Yesterday 7:37 pm

Treebeard wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:That feedback regarding Gary seems like, in part, a coaching issue. McGinn is pointing out all of his tremendous physical tools but highlights his inability to know what to do with them. McGinn is implying with the Wonderlic score citation than Gary is stupid (it's a cheap tactic by McGinn - just come out and say what you mean), but there have been plenty of non-geniuses in this sport who have dominated the pass rush. A good coach could help put those tools to better use, IMO.


On that line of thought: what developmental program should the coaches have Gary working on since the NFC Championship and going into training camp?


Film and testing him on that film. Have him watch different moves so he is more ready to counter. He's at least not taking the off-season off.

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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#254 » by Kerb Hohl » Yesterday 7:52 pm

Wasn't part of the issue with Gary learning was that he's dyslexic? That doesn't mean he's impossible to teach/coach as Eddie Lacy I believe also was and was able to thrive for a while. For that, you just need to get him in the right situation.

And you can still have a low Wonderlic score and be a smart person, a good linebacker, or really good at almost any position. It's entirely possible that if Gary ends up being a bust that maybe it was due to not having someone to relate to his dyslexia (though I'm pretty sure they were aware of this and are trying) or maybe he truly just couldn't put the talent together with the on-field movements. It has happened to lots of players, smart and not as smart.

I'm not sure the Packers have overall bad coaching at the OLB spot. The Smiths were good players but had never produced as they did this past season. So if it is all on coaching, those guys definitely got some good coaching.

EDIT: It may not have been dyslexia with Lacy but I think he had some form of learning disability? I'll keep googling and digging myself a deeper hole.
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#255 » by crkone » Yesterday 8:29 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Wasn't part of the issue with Gary learning was that he's dyslexic? That doesn't mean he's impossible to teach/coach as Eddie Lacy I believe also was and was able to thrive for a while. For that, you just need to get him in the right situation.

And you can still have a low Wonderlic score and be a smart person, a good linebacker, or really good at almost any position. It's entirely possible that if Gary ends up being a bust that maybe it was due to not having someone to relate to his dyslexia (though I'm pretty sure they were aware of this and are trying) or maybe he truly just couldn't put the talent together with the on-field movements. It has happened to lots of players, smart and not as smart.

I'm not sure the Packers have overall bad coaching at the OLB spot. The Smiths were good players but had never produced as they did this past season. So if it is all on coaching, those guys definitely got some good coaching.

EDIT: It may not have been dyslexia with Lacy but I think he had some form of learning disability? I'll keep googling and digging myself a deeper hole.

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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#256 » by Mags FTW » Today 2:13 am

Treebeard wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:That feedback regarding Gary seems like, in part, a coaching issue. McGinn is pointing out all of his tremendous physical tools but highlights his inability to know what to do with them. McGinn is implying with the Wonderlic score citation than Gary is stupid (it's a cheap tactic by McGinn - just come out and say what you mean), but there have been plenty of non-geniuses in this sport who have dominated the pass rush. A good coach could help put those tools to better use, IMO.


On that line of thought: what developmental program should the coaches have Gary working on since the NFC Championship and going into training camp?

Developing a pass rush plan beyond the first move using a combination of film study and reaction drills.
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#257 » by RRyder823 » Today 3:17 am

humanrefutation wrote:That feedback regarding Gary seems like, in part, a coaching issue. McGinn is pointing out all of his tremendous physical tools but highlights his inability to know what to do with them. McGinn is implying with the Wonderlic score citation than Gary is stupid (it's a cheap tactic by McGinn - just come out and say what you mean), but there have been plenty of non-geniuses in this sport who have dominated the pass rush. A good coach could help put those tools to better use, IMO.
I mean if it's simply a coaching issue it's been the same issue since he showed up at Michigan

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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#258 » by humanrefutation » Today 3:53 am

RRyder823 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:That feedback regarding Gary seems like, in part, a coaching issue. McGinn is pointing out all of his tremendous physical tools but highlights his inability to know what to do with them. McGinn is implying with the Wonderlic score citation than Gary is stupid (it's a cheap tactic by McGinn - just come out and say what you mean), but there have been plenty of non-geniuses in this sport who have dominated the pass rush. A good coach could help put those tools to better use, IMO.
I mean if it's simply a coaching issue it's been the same issue since he showed up at Michigan

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Yeah, that's true. But Michigan isn't exactly a shining example of a defensive football factory, though. They've had some highly regarded defenses, but not a lot of pro talent coming out of their defensive front - off the top of my head, it's been Frank Clark, Taco Charlton, Chase Winovich, and Gary. Only Clark seems to have made something of himself, though there's still time for the other three.

I'm just trying to see the silver living with Gary - that maybe with the right coaching, he can put those tools to use.
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Re: Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - RIP Willie Wood 

Post#259 » by MickeyDavis » Today 12:54 pm

Obviously Gary has the physical tools. But so do a lot of busts (I'm not saying he's a bust...yet). Defense is as much instinct as physicality. Some players can get all the right coaching but just can't translate that to on the field performance. Wonderlic is overused. Blake had a 27 and he sucks.
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