2018 Packers Offseason Thread - Jordy Out/Jimmy & Mo In

jakecronus8 · Post #1141 » by **jakecronus8** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:47 am

I'm generally against spending on running backs both salary wise and draft pick wise but in my eyes Bell is the best running back in the league. I'd sacrifice Jordy and Cobb to bring him into the fold.

Post #1142 » by **Jollay** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:58 pm

I don't think Jones was horrible and I think he still shows promise, but how the Packers have to rely on a second-round rookie like they did is inexcusable if you honestly want to be a contender.

Hopefully this new defensive staff won't dick around with Blake Martinez on the headset as a rookie or Jones playing five positions as a rookie or any of this **** real contenders don't ever do.

What one-year vet contracts are for. Let the rooks learn for a year and then gradually expand their roles.

Post #1143 » by **Jollay** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:01 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:I'm generally against spending on running backs both salary wise and draft pick wise but in my eyes Bell is the best running back in the league. I'd sacrifice Jordy and Cobb to bring him into the fold.

Probably just roll with the second-year guys and spend the $ elsewhere (and probably should), but man, I love watching Bell run.

Would improve the passing game a ton...a ton....if used properly. Can we do that anymore?

GB_Packers · Post #1144 » by **GB_Packers** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:11 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:"Clear class of the division?" C'mon man.

They were an 11-5 team by estimated average point differential. Their passing offense was hovering around league average and their rush offense was at points abysmal (23rd in YPC). That defense slips even a little bit and they're right back in that 7-8 win range like they were last year. I'd take Zimmer as a coach over McCarthy 10 times out of 10, but you're putting a lot of faith in Case Keenum continuing his best Alex Smith impression and a rookie RB coming off an ACL tear.

Our backup QB was able to barely beat the very worst teams in the league. Their backup QB won 11 games and is in the NFC Championship. They've got one of the most talent laden teams in the league, the Packers have one All-Pro player outside of Rodgers.

They got to the NFC Championship because of a healthy defense, not because Keenum suddenly saw the light and turned into a good QB. Give Rodgers even just a defense ranked somewhere between 12-15th and the Packers steamroll through the league for at least the remainder of his prime years.

Packers will be the favorites to win the division again next year and one of two or three favorites to win it all.

Lippo · Post #1145 » by **Lippo** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:23 pm

Jollay wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:I'm generally against spending on running backs both salary wise and draft pick wise but in my eyes Bell is the best running back in the league. I'd sacrifice Jordy and Cobb to bring him into the fold.

Probably just roll with the second-year guys and spend the $ elsewhere (and probably should), but man, I love watching Bell run.

Would improve the passing game a ton...a ton....if used properly. Can we do that anymore?

Get McKinnon for a fraction of the cost (3/10m), move Ty back to WR/4th RB/PR/KR rookie Cobb role
copy the Saints backfield
Williams- Peterson/Ivory/Robinson (Powerback)
Jones- Ingram/Thomas (Hybrid)
McKinnon- Kamura/Sproles/Spiller (3rd Down/Scatback)
Hope Jordy retires and restructure Cobb 50% of current or cut him.
Draft a WR in 2nd. (Cobbs or Kirk)

M-C-G · Post #1146 » by **M-C-G** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:43 pm

Lippo wrote:
Jollay wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:I'm generally against spending on running backs both salary wise and draft pick wise but in my eyes Bell is the best running back in the league. I'd sacrifice Jordy and Cobb to bring him into the fold.

Probably just roll with the second-year guys and spend the $ elsewhere (and probably should), but man, I love watching Bell run.

Would improve the passing game a ton...a ton....if used properly. Can we do that anymore?

Get McKinnon for a fraction of the cost (3/10m), move Ty back to WR/4th RB/PR/KR rookie Cobb role
copy the Saints backfield
Williams- Peterson/Ivory/Robinson (Powerback)
Jones- Ingram/Thomas (Hybrid)
McKinnon- Kamura/Sproles/Spiller (3rd Down/Scatback)
Hope Jordy retires and restructure Cobb 50% of current or cut him.
Draft a WR in 2nd. (Cobbs or Kirk)

I’m not sure you need McKinnon, Jones is basically a clone, is he not? Certainly he is more McK or Kamara than Ingram.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Lippo · Post #1147 » by **Lippo** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:54 pm

M-C-G wrote:
Lippo wrote:
Jollay wrote:
Probably just roll with the second-year guys and spend the $ elsewhere (and probably should), but man, I love watching Bell run.

Would improve the passing game a ton...a ton....if used properly. Can we do that anymore?

Get McKinnon for a fraction of the cost (3/10m), move Ty back to WR/4th RB/PR/KR rookie Cobb role
copy the Saints backfield
Williams- Peterson/Ivory/Robinson (Powerback)
Jones- Ingram/Thomas (Hybrid)
McKinnon- Kamura/Sproles/Spiller (3rd Down/Scatback)
Hope Jordy retires and restructure Cobb 50% of current or cut him.
Draft a WR in 2nd. (Cobbs or Kirk)

I’m not sure you need McKinnon, Jones is basically a clone, is he not? Certainly he is more McK or Kamara than Ingram.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

True Jones and McKinnon are alike, but Jones has more power, McKinnon more speed, both are SPARQ superstars.
McKinnon is definitely a better receiver, I guess Monty could just stay there and fill that role. I also like the idea of stealing McKinnon from the Vikes, a guy like that is very valuable... he had 12 catches, ala White/Vereen like affect...

XtremeDunkz · Post #1148 » by **XtremeDunkz** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:48 am

I always saw Jones as a LB type player in the box covering the HB and TE. I don't think he has the discipline or agility to play in space deep.

Post #1149 » by **humanrefutation** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:33 pm

I like Josh Jones. I think he has a place in this league. I believe many of his errors can be attributed to rookie mistakes and over aggressiveness. I can see him as a hybrid LB/S.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1150 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:10 pm

I'm super curious what lev bell gets this offseason. On one hand he's great but on the other hand team don't love spending on rbs with mileage and it sure seems like he's got some idiot tendencies off the field. It only takes one team to pay him but I don't think his market will be as big as you would think.

Post #1151 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:21 pm

You always look for improvement from year 1 to year 2. Martinez had it, hopefully J. Jones does as well. Having a new DC can do nothing but help.

chuckleslove · Post #1152 » by **chuckleslove** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:57 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:You always look for improvement from year 1 to year 2. Martinez had it, hopefully J. Jones does as well. Having a new DC can do nothing but help.

This right here. Jones looked dynamite in the pre season, we were almost all super excited. There is no reason to write off Jones at this point in time. Martinez was definitely one of the few bright spots on defense this year. Hopefully with a new coordinator both the veterans that have talent/potential and some of the younger guys can show improvement like that.

Mags FTW · Post #1153 » by **Mags FTW** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:53 pm

Why are people calling for Jordy to just retire outright? He had 6 TDs in the 4 games he and Aaron both played.

Ervin Johnson · Post #1154 » by **Ervin Johnson** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:51 am

chuckleslove wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:You always look for improvement from year 1 to year 2. Martinez had it, hopefully J. Jones does as well. Having a new DC can do nothing but help.

This right here. Jones looked dynamite in the pre season, we were almost all super excited. There is no reason to write off Jones at this point in time. Martinez was definitely one of the few bright spots on defense this year. Hopefully with a new coordinator both the veterans that have talent/potential and some of the younger guys can show improvement like that.

Kenny Clark also had a big jump this year as well. Hopefully Jones and King can do the same.

chuckleslove · Post #1155 » by **chuckleslove** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 am

Ervin Johnson wrote:
chuckleslove wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:You always look for improvement from year 1 to year 2. Martinez had it, hopefully J. Jones does as well. Having a new DC can do nothing but help.

This right here. Jones looked dynamite in the pre season, we were almost all super excited. There is no reason to write off Jones at this point in time. Martinez was definitely one of the few bright spots on defense this year. Hopefully with a new coordinator both the veterans that have talent/potential and some of the younger guys can show improvement like that.

Kenny Clark also had a big jump this year as well. Hopefully Jones and King can do the same.

Absolutely, Kenny Clark was pretty damn good as a rookie too though, I don't think his jump was as much as Martinez who looked pretty mediocre to bad his rookie year before being a borderline stud this past year. If we can have those guys continue to improve, get a second year jump from King and Jones and then just have everyone improve a little with a new scheme/coordinator we could have a top 15 defense next year I think which should be enough with Rodgers.

Post #1156 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:38 pm

Three weeks after the Green Bay Packers concluded their first losing season in nine years, coach Mike McCarthy unveiled a retooled coaching staff Wednesday that features seven new faces and multiple reassignments.

Almost all the new hires – including two former head coaches and four former coordinators -- either have worked with McCarthy at some point during his career or with some of his closest colleagues.

Two of the new hires aren’t really new because both were on the staff in 2017. One took a college job and the other was fired after the season, and both are back with new titles.

While many of the hires had been made public through various news reports, none had been confirmed until the Packers announced the new staff Wednesday morning.

The only assistant whose future isn’t settled is safeties coach Darren Perry, who still was weighing other opportunities but has a standing offer to return to the Packers. If Perry returns, it probably would be with a different title.

McCarthy made 13 changes in personnel or titles to his 2017 coaching staff, the most from one season to the next during his 12 years as head coach.

Chief among the additions were offensive coordinator Joe Philbin and defensive coordinator Mike Pettine. This will be the third time McCarthy has gone into a season with a new offensive coordinator and the second time with a new defensive coordinator since arriving in ’06.

It is the first time he has made changes at both of those positions in the same year.

McCarthy did not stray far from his professional circle with his new hires.

Three come from fired Indianapolis Colts coach Chuck Pagano’s staff, including Philbin, one of McCarthy's closest friends in the business and Pagano’s associate head coach last season.

Two come from fired New York Giants coach and former Packers quarterback coach Ben McAdoo’s staff.

One served with McCarthy on coach Mike Nolan’s staff in San Francisco.

And Pettine served as a defensive consultant with the Seattle Seahawks last year and shares the same agent with McCarthy and Seahawks general manager John Schneider. McCarthy and Schneider are close friends and Schneider served as a reference for Pettine.

Those who return from McCarthy’s offensive staff are run game coordinator/offensive line coach James Campen, running backs coach Ben Sirmans, tight ends coach Brian Angelichio, assistant offensive line coach Jeff Blasko and wide receivers coach (formerly offensive perimeter coach) David Raih.

On defense, Joe Whitt Jr. and Winston Moss are returning. Whitt will not coach cornerbacks as he did a year ago, but instead will serve as defensive passing game coordinator, which will put him in a position of authority he has not previously had.

Moss, who was on McCarthy’s original staff in ’06, will continue to serve as associate head coach/outside linebackers.

In addition, special teams assistant coach Jason Simmons has been moved to secondary coach, which will include picking up Whitt’s former duties of coaching the cornerbacks.

In two surprising moves, assistant defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery was hired as defensive line coach and Scott McCurley was hired as a defensive assistant.

Both were off the staff for a short while. Montgomery accepted an offer from Texas A&M coach Jimbo Fisher to be his associate head coach/defensive line earlier this month, but sometime after Jan. 8 backed out of it so he could return to the Packers.

McCurley was fired along with defensive coordinator Dom Capers and defensive line coach Mike Trgovac the day after the season ended, but McCarthy rehired him at a lower-level position of defensive assistant.

Missing from the staff are multiple former assistants of Pettine, who was head coach of the Cleveland Browns for two seasons (’14-15) and defensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills (’13) and New York Jets (’09-12). Pettine’s defense, developed in coordination with former Jets and Bills head coach Rex Ryan, is complicated and will require a lot of teaching.

The only coach with a connection to Pettine is Ryan Downard, who has been hired as a defensive quality control assistant. Downard was a defensive assistant on Pettine’s staff in Cleveland and most recently was safeties coach at Bowling Green.

Pettine reportedly interviewed Jim O’Neil, his former defensive coordinator with the Browns, but O’Neil accepted a job with the Raiders as senior defensive assistant.

Philbin, who was on the Packers' staff from 2003-11, the last five as offensive ordinator, replaces Edgar Bennett, who was stripped of his title shortly after the season ended. Bennett turned down a position as wide receivers coach and accepted a similar position with the Oakland Raiders.

Philbin was head coach of the Miami Dolphins from 2012-15 before joining Pagano’s staff.

Pettine replaces Capers, who was fired after serving nine years under McCarthy.

With the addition of Philbin and Pettine, McCarthy adds two former head coaches with coordinator experience to his staff.

In addition, he added two former offensive coordinators in quarterbacks coach Frank Cignetti, who was McAdoo’s quarterbacks coach last year and offensive coordinator with the St. Louis Rams in ’15, and pass game coordinator Jim Hostler, who coached the wide receivers with the Colts last year and was offensive coordinator of the San Francisco 49ers in ’07.

Philbin undoubtedly had an influence on McCarthy hiring Hostler as well as Maurice Drayton from the Colts' staff. Drayton was an assistant special teams coach under Pagano and will serve the same role under special teams coordinator Ron Zook.

Drayton also coached with Whitt at The Citadel in the early 2000s.

In addition to Cignetti, Patrick Graham was hired from McAdoo’s staff and will serve as defensive run game coordinator/inside linebackers coach. Graham coached defensive line for McAdoo, but linebackers is his preferred position. He coached both defensive line and linebackers for New England’s Bill Belichick from ’09-15.

crkone · Post #1157 » by **crkone** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:25 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #1158 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:34 pm

Capers simplified/reduced the defensive playbook in 2015. It will be interesting to see what Pettine does differently.

Capers saw the need to create an up-tempo defense to match the league's burgeoning up-tempo offenses, and the solution came in the form of a two-part process: first he wanted to streamline the playbook and then he wanted to overhaul the entire defensive communication system.

So Capers set about reducing his playbook to alleviate some of the mental strain on his pupils. He removed from the defensive menu a number of plays cornerback Casey Hayward said were unlikely to be used anyway.

The result, according to Hayward, was a significant reduction in the number of missed assignments and mental errors by the defense during training camp. "An all-time low," he said.

The second item on Capers' revision list was always going to be more difficult as it involved the creation and installation of a brand-new defensive language. Gone were the lengthy play calls whose titles featured as many as six or seven words each — plus contingencies, which we will get to later — and in their place would be a system featuring one or two words per play and an accompanying hand signal.

"It takes time to say, 'Eagle Wide Open Me Special Seven,'" Capers said with a smile. "To where now you have a one-word term. Those guys all know the one-word code terms."

The introduction of the new defensive language took place during organized team activities, when each player was given what amounted to a giant sheet of new words, terms and hand signals to memorize. And instead of each positional group having its own verbiage, a single word was now applicable to the entire defense. It just meant different things to different people.

econniption · Post #1159 » by **econniption** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:36 pm

Just watched Pettine's press conference and came away even more impressed with him than I already was. If anyone was iffy about his hire or if you just want to hear more about/from him, I highly recommend watching it.

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Mike-Pettine-highlights-the-cornerstones-of-his-ideal-defense/011ef84f-0081-4178-9fee-611db29872ef

Balls2TheWalls · Post #1160 » by **Balls2TheWalls** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:50 pm

chuckleslove wrote:
Ervin Johnson wrote:
chuckleslove wrote:

This right here. Jones looked dynamite in the pre season, we were almost all super excited. There is no reason to write off Jones at this point in time. Martinez was definitely one of the few bright spots on defense this year. Hopefully with a new coordinator both the veterans that have talent/potential and some of the younger guys can show improvement like that.

Kenny Clark also had a big jump this year as well. Hopefully Jones and King can do the same.

Absolutely, Kenny Clark was pretty damn good as a rookie too though, I don't think his jump was as much as Martinez who looked pretty mediocre to bad his rookie year before being a borderline stud this past year. If we can have those guys continue to improve, get a second year jump from King and Jones and then just have everyone improve a little with a new scheme/coordinator we could have a top 15 defense next year I think which should be enough with Rodgers.

Clark's jump was massive. It is incredibly hard to jump from solid to all-pro level. He added pass rush arsenal after already being incredibly stout against the run. Martinez is still pretty meh against the pass. He doesn't read the zones around him well. He is often in the right place but doesn't make plays on the ball because he is not aware of the players moving around him. His play against the run is very good.

I don't want to crap on Martinez. He is easily our best MLB. However, we don't have an emotional 3 down leader at MLB. Martinez is bad in coverage. Burnett is terrible against the run when we moved him into the box. Ryan is a wildcard, and frequently washed out of plays. Josh Jones looked like he was a world beater for like 3 games, and then disappeared into garbage town. They said it was because he had too much on his plate, but under Pettine they say that your safeties have to be incredibly smart, and it isn't looking good for him. Luckily we still have Brice ready to go.

King showed a lot on the field. Corner is a position where you generally need a year to adjust to the moves and speed of the NFL WR position (Lattimore is an aberration). King showed that he is a real player and will be a fit long term. Randle started to mentally get it back together. He showed flashes of greatness as a rookie, and then his confidence got shot. He started to get his confidence back and started making plays again. Rollins is garbage. He has to go. The Pettine defense requires your RCB and LCB to play on islands, and in man to man. I personally like man to man because it frees your corners up to make plays in 1 on 1 coverage. I also like it because it makes your cornerback play much harder to manipulate pre-snap. I don't think we have a 2nd corner to play with King on an island. House is a disaster for this system. He is too slow, and covering anyone with speed he would consistently give up deep openings.

Scheme wise, the biggest weakness of Dom Capers' defense is that the zone blitz is figured out. He pioneered it over 20 years ago, and it was very effective for a very long time. However, now, the zone blitz is figured out, and teams consistently overload vacated zones and find holes in it. The zone blitz brings a very predictable extra man out of coverage, which makes it both incredibly blockable and very dangerous and susceptible to the short and intermediate passing game. Pettine is known for creating pressure primarily with his line, and covering the outside WRs with 1 on 1 CB play. This allows his linebackers to flow freely to plays. He has always had a very good MLB, and at least 1 shutdown CB anchoring his defenses. The Jets had Revis and in the middle they had Bart Scott and David Harris. They had maybe the best defense of all time when he was a LB coach for the Ravens. They had Kiko Alonso and Leodis McKelvin/Stephon Gilmore in Buffalo. For the Browns he brought in Karlos Dansby and had Joe Haden.

I think that if we put players in place at MLB and #1 or #2 CB that we could make a major leap. I think that after watching Capers get destroyed for so long that people forget what having a top defense is like. The Packers would go from giving up scoring drives almost every time the other team had the ball to having more possessions, controlling the clock, and blowing teams out.