Post Game: Dolphins

[Flames24Rulz]

1-11 in the last 12 games decided by 4 points or less, huh?

Which was the 1 win?

Lions game a couple weeks ago.

[an_also]

1-11 in the last 12 games decided by 4 points or less, huh?

Which was the 1 win?

Lions game a couple weeks ago.

Which in all honesty should have been a loss. And I can bet there were games in there that should have been a win as well.

[Wilford Brimley]

1-11 in the last 12 games decided by 4 points or less, huh?

Which was the 1 win?

Lions game a couple weeks ago.

[El Duderino]

I think the awful special teams might be the biggest contributor, TT's failure to find a quality kick returner, horrible punting, rotten coverage.....it just seems the Packers always start around the 20 while opponents are closer to the 40, that is so huge....TT simply refuses to draft a return specialist and that is a killer.

You don't have to just draft one. McGinn wrote a column yesterday about this exact subject of return specialists, but i can't post it because it's an insider article.

He mentioned the success of numerous good returners since Ted took over and a good number of them went undrafted. The problem is that most of the better returners are or have been 5'10 and under, but Thompson has a hard held policy against acquiring anyone under 5'10, so he won't take a flier on those type of players. The numbers back it up,Thompson i guess has yet to sign or draft any player under 5'10. Those tiny guys though often have that shiftyness and burst, plus they can get lost for a second among the swarms of big bodies on a return.

[Flames24Rulz]

1-11 in the last 12 games decided by 4 points or less, huh?

Which was the 1 win?

Lions game a couple weeks ago.

Which in all honesty should have been a loss. And I can bet there were games in there that should have been a win as well.

There were several and most of those losses actually occurred in 2008. Four of the 12 decisions have already came this year...yet another parallel between those two teams.

[Buck You]

well... thank god I decided to take the train to chicago and hang out downtown for the day. Followed on the phone but didnt really care that much.

Will you care if they make the playoffs???

[humanrefutation]

I think the awful special teams might be the biggest contributor, TT's failure to find a quality kick returner, horrible punting, rotten coverage.....it just seems the Packers always start around the 20 while opponents are closer to the 40, that is so huge....TT simply refuses to draft a return specialist and that is a killer.

You don't have to just draft one. McGinn wrote a column yesterday about this exact subject of return specialists, but i can't post it because it's an insider article.

He mentioned the success of numerous good returners since Ted took over and a good number of them went undrafted. The problem is that most of the better returners are or have been 5'10 and under, but Thompson has a hard held policy against acquiring anyone under 5'10, so he won't take a flier on those type of players. The numbers back it up,Thompson i guess has yet to sign or draft any player under 5'10. Those tiny guys though often have that shiftyness and burst, plus they can get lost for a second among the swarms of big bodies on a return.

A. Can we not post Insider articles now? Just wondering...

B. TT likes guys who are versatile and can play multiple positions (except for Quinn Johnson, for some godawful reason). That's both to his benefit and his detriment. It's good when you are injury plagued, like we are, to have guys who can play multiple positions who can fill in. It's bad when those guys aren't especially great at one position, like the return game, and you're stuck with mediocrity at best at those positions.

[Buck You]

We were never able to post full insider articles, you could post like a paragraph. It's because people could post all the insider articles here and nobody would ever buy them then.

[MickeyDavis]

Maybe I'm missing something here but I kept seeing Bulaga get schooled and yet every time they lined up there was no help on his side. No TE, no RB. Just one on one. Are the coaches this stupid or am I?

[MickeyDavis]

We were never able to post full insider articles, you could post like a paragraph. It's because people could post all the insider articles here and nobody would ever buy them then.

That's correct, that's the policy here.

[humanrefutation]

We were never able to post full insider articles, you could post like a paragraph. It's because people could post all the insider articles here and nobody would ever buy them then.

That's correct, that's the policy here.

Oh...I swear that I'd see them all the time on the Bucks board. But maybe that's just the paragraph thing you all are referring to.

[MickeyDavis]

I'm sure they slip in once in awhile but yeah, a paragraph or two is fine. Posting the whole thing runs the risk of getting booted.

[humanrefutation]

Maybe I'm missing something here but I kept seeing Bulaga get schooled and yet every time they lined up there was no help on his side. No TE, no RB. Just one on one. Are the coaches this stupid or am I?

I saw that too. Bulaga actually wasn't beaten on all of Rodgers sacks...Rodgers tripped over Wake when Bulaga pancaked him on that last sack. But the fact that they didn't have someone at least chip him once or twice was questionable.

Though, those guys might have been busy helping Clifton on the other side, too.

[humanrefutation]

I'm sure they slip in once in awhile but yeah, a paragraph or two is fine. Posting the whole thing runs the risk of getting booted.

Thanks for the clarification.

[eagle13]

Maybe I'm missing something here but I kept seeing Bulaga get schooled and yet every time they lined up there was no help on his side. No TE, no RB. Just one on one. Are the coaches this stupid or am I?

I would have at least tried Lang - he was on active roster. Bulaga is a LT guy it seems - even worked more at LG than RT in camp.

[Oscar71]

I'm in the go for 2 after Rodgers TD minority. At home, Miami defense on their heels, it doesn't get more favorable than that to try it. How someone can depend on a depleted, tired defense to win this in OT?
I would have had the conversion called in advance and just hit 'em before they knew it. Another McCarthy fail.... All the momentum was there, then going for possible victory was thrown into the jaws of probable defeat.

[Simulack]

How someone can depend on a depleted, tired defense to win this in OT?

Said to a friend I was watching the game with that I would strongly consider going for 2. That said, the fact is that the defense did their job and shut down Miami on their first possession. Then we had: penalty on special teams, the offense looking inept on a 3 and out (including a big sack) and a terrible punt.

Our offense has had the ball 3 times now in OT situations and done nothing. Maybe that is actually the best reason to have gone for 2 when we had the chance: we can't rely on our offense to win it in OT.

This was our fifth overtime game over the last three seasons and we've never scored/won. We've had the ball with a chance to win in the last 3 (Arizona, Washington and today).

[El Duderino]

I think the awful special teams might be the biggest contributor, TT's failure to find a quality kick returner, horrible punting, rotten coverage.....it just seems the Packers always start around the 20 while opponents are closer to the 40, that is so huge....TT simply refuses to draft a return specialist and that is a killer.

You don't have to just draft one. McGinn wrote a column yesterday about this exact subject of return specialists, but i can't post it because it's an insider article.

He mentioned the success of numerous good returners since Ted took over and a good number of them went undrafted. The problem is that most of the better returners are or have been 5'10 and under, but Thompson has a hard held policy against acquiring anyone under 5'10, so he won't take a flier on those type of players. The numbers back it up,Thompson i guess has yet to sign or draft any player under 5'10. Those tiny guys though often have that shiftyness and burst, plus they can get lost for a second among the swarms of big bodies on a return.

A. Can we not post Insider articles now? Just wondering...

B. TT likes guys who are versatile and can play multiple positions (except for Quinn Johnson, for some godawful reason). That's both to his benefit and his detriment. It's good when you are injury plagued, like we are, to have guys who can play multiple positions who can fill in. It's bad when those guys aren't especially great at one position, like the return game, and you're stuck with mediocrity at best at those positions.

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/105111119.html


I wrote that post without looking back at the article and i was wrong in saying Ted never signed anyone under 5'10, it's just corners and receivers that he seems very against who are short, even if they are mainly returners. I'll post the last few paragraphs from the long article.

"If a guy is 6-1 he's pretty easy to find," another AFC coach said. "If the guy's 5-9 that's a big difference. So you're going against a very quick man who basically will hit the seam wherever you aren't. If you guess wrong, you're dead. If you don't get off a block early enough because you can't see him, you're also dead. It's a dilemma for us because guys are small, quick and explosive."

That's true in more and more places but it certainly isn't in Green Bay. Of the 480 players that the Packers have started camp with in the last six summers, just four acquired by Thompson were under 5-10: running backs Chaz Williams (5-9), P.J. Pope (5-9), Morency and Tyrell Sutton (5-7½). He has never drafted anyone under 5-10.

Special teams coordinator Shawn Slocum predicted two years ago that not having the wedge would enhance the value of the tiny returner. He battles against them every week when the Packers kick and punt.

Should a 53-man roster include that 10th offensive lineman like Nick McDonald, or a little big man like Brandon Banks or Stefan Logan? The answer should be clear-cut.

[eagle13]

Patrick Clayton was a big miss as PR & KR (& decent WR) for just a 6th

[trwi7]

Was anyone else screaming at the TV to go for 2 at the end of the game???

The way I look at it:

Going for 2 gives you a better than 50/50 shot at winning the game. I say better because A-Rod is so money in the red-zone.

Playing for OT with this team right now gives you maybe a 20% chance of winning. Forgetting about who wins the toss, you have Crosby who hasn't hit a big kick in ages, a defense playing with 2nd/3rd stringers who have been on the field for 38 minutes (or 2.5 quarters) and haven't even touched Henne, and an offense that has struggled to protect Rodgers and move the ball.

Playing for OT = Playing to lose, but not get crap for it

Going for 2 = Playing to win, but getting "yelled at / fired" if you don't get it

I want a coach that plays to win, not one who plays to not get fired (I realize the double negative, but I'm hammered so it works).

I was with some people and said I would go for 2, the other 2 people disagreed, unfotunately it played out like I thought....with terrible special teams, a defense that can't get off the field, and an o-line that was absolutely owned....I just didn't think they would have as good as a chance as they had going for 2.

I agree with this. Even if you don't make it there's still 15 seconds to try to recover an onside kick and get the ball downfield for 20-25 yards to give Crosby a shot at a FG. Unlikely, but even if we didn't make the 2 point conversion the game wouldn't have been over.