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If by "move money around easily" you mean they can cut a bunch of players then yes. You are correct.FAH1223 wrote:jakecronus8 wrote:Reports are Packers are optimistic that both Rodgers and Davante return.
Still don’t buy it. Money doesn’t make sense and they’ll be coming back to a significantly worse team.
They can move money around easily.
RRyder823 wrote:If by "move money around easily" you mean they can cut a bunch of players then yes. You are correct.FAH1223 wrote:jakecronus8 wrote:Reports are Packers are optimistic that both Rodgers and Davante return.
Still don’t buy it. Money doesn’t make sense and they’ll be coming back to a significantly worse team.
They can move money around easily.
Otherwise it's just non sense
Given the futures deals we have recently signed and the ERFA options to be taken up, we are currently 57.024m over the 2022 salary cap(figures from OTC). To get under the cap there are several scenarios but I've tried to list the best and worst cases going forward:
Rodgers: Re-signs with the team for 3 years(+1 void year) on a deal worth between $75-$105M. His cap hit floor for 2022 is $26.543M and ceiling is $29.043M making the savings available as between $17.6M to $20.1M.
Bahktiari: Has between $6M and $12M of his roster bonus/salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $13.768M and cap ceiling is $18.268M making the savings available as between $4.5M to $9M.
Clark:Has between $6M and $12M of his roster bonus/salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $11.9M and cap ceiling is $16.4M making the savings available as between $4.5M to $9M.
Alexander: Signs a 4 year extension worth $76M. Cap floor is $5.694M and cap ceiling of $13.294M making the savings available as between $0 and $7.6M.
Cobb: Is either cut or agrees to restructure his contract to base pay plus $3.25M in bonuses (signing/roster). Cap floor is $2.783M and cap ceiling is $4.511M making the savings available as between $5.13M and $6.858M.
Lowry: Has between $2.4M and $3.9M of his salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $5.147M and cap ceiling is $6.272M making the savings available as between $1.8M to $2.925M.
Turner: Has between $2.4M and $4.2M of his salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $6.09M and cap ceiling is $7.44M making the savings available as between $1.8M to $3.15M.
Amos: Signs a 2 year extension worth between $22.5M and $28M. Cap floor is $7.582M and cap ceiling of $11.982M making the savings available as between $0 and $4.4M.
P Smith: Is either cut or agrees to a 2 year extension(with 1 void year) worth between $27.5M and $32M. Cap floor is $7.25M and cap ceiling is $12.25M making the savings available as between $7.5M and $12.5M.
Z Smith: Is either cut or agrees to a 2 year extension(with 1 void year) worth between $35M and $40M. Cap floor is $12.38M and cap ceiling is $19.13M making the savings available as between $8.531M and $15.281M.
Based on those numbers you can take the best case scenario for each and we save $90.835M which allows us to re-sign Adams (cap hit around the $10-$12M mark), Campbell (cap hit around the $4-$6M mark), Douglas (cap hit around the $3-$5M mark), Tonyan (cap hit around the $2-$4M mark), Lazard (cap hit around the $2-$4M mark). This however has a big impact on our cap for 2023 with outs on most contracts from 2024 onwards.
Alternatively you take the lowest case scenario and we are still $5.642M over the cap.
Ultimately what the Packers do will depend on 3 key things:
- The appetite for Rodgers to want to come back
- The details around the future cap rises due to the new TV money from 2023 onwards
- The wants of all the other players not named Aaron Rodgers.
BUCKnation wrote:If you guys have learned anything about the past few years in the NFL, money is made up and no situation can't be eased with some shady/unclear deals or restructuring.
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."
I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
trwi7 wrote:BUCKnation wrote:If you guys have learned anything about the past few years in the NFL, money is made up and no situation can't be eased with some shady/unclear deals or restructuring.
Weren't the Saints like $50 million over the cap going into Brees' final season and they basically kept all of their important players through extensions/restructures and the like?
Yeah the saints will be paying the piper this off-season and I don't think it was a coincidence that Payton left that mess to someone else.BUCKnation wrote:trwi7 wrote:BUCKnation wrote:If you guys have learned anything about the past few years in the NFL, money is made up and no situation can't be eased with some shady/unclear deals or restructuring.
Weren't the Saints like $50 million over the cap going into Brees' final season and they basically kept all of their important players through extensions/restructures and the like?
Something like that. Basically you can kick the can down as far as you want, which for them will probably be now with no more Brees or Payton.
FAH1223 wrote:RRyder823 wrote:If by "move money around easily" you mean they can cut a bunch of players then yes. You are correct.FAH1223 wrote:They can move money around easily.
Otherwise it's just non sense
Cutting players is one. Restructuring the big cap numbers is the other. Extending guys like Jaire is the other. And if 12 is back, it will need to be on an extension because he is NOT going to be on a $46M cap numbers.
This is probably the scenario that Rap Sheet reports that Rodgers and the front office went over with last week.
From another forum:
Given the futures deals we have recently signed and the ERFA options to be taken up, we are currently 57.024m over the 2022 salary cap(figures from OTC). To get under the cap there are several scenarios but I've tried to list the best and worst cases going forward:
Rodgers: Re-signs with the team for 3 years(+1 void year) on a deal worth between $75-$105M. His cap hit floor for 2022 is $26.543M and ceiling is $29.043M making the savings available as between $17.6M to $20.1M.
Bahktiari: Has between $6M and $12M of his roster bonus/salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $13.768M and cap ceiling is $18.268M making the savings available as between $4.5M to $9M.
Clark:Has between $6M and $12M of his roster bonus/salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $11.9M and cap ceiling is $16.4M making the savings available as between $4.5M to $9M.
Alexander: Signs a 4 year extension worth $76M. Cap floor is $5.694M and cap ceiling of $13.294M making the savings available as between $0 and $7.6M.
Cobb: Is either cut or agrees to restructure his contract to base pay plus $3.25M in bonuses (signing/roster). Cap floor is $2.783M and cap ceiling is $4.511M making the savings available as between $5.13M and $6.858M.
Lowry: Has between $2.4M and $3.9M of his salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $5.147M and cap ceiling is $6.272M making the savings available as between $1.8M to $2.925M.
Turner: Has between $2.4M and $4.2M of his salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $6.09M and cap ceiling is $7.44M making the savings available as between $1.8M to $3.15M.
Amos: Signs a 2 year extension worth between $22.5M and $28M. Cap floor is $7.582M and cap ceiling of $11.982M making the savings available as between $0 and $4.4M.
P Smith: Is either cut or agrees to a 2 year extension(with 1 void year) worth between $27.5M and $32M. Cap floor is $7.25M and cap ceiling is $12.25M making the savings available as between $7.5M and $12.5M.
Z Smith: Is either cut or agrees to a 2 year extension(with 1 void year) worth between $35M and $40M. Cap floor is $12.38M and cap ceiling is $19.13M making the savings available as between $8.531M and $15.281M.
Based on those numbers you can take the best case scenario for each and we save $90.835M which allows us to re-sign Adams (cap hit around the $10-$12M mark), Campbell (cap hit around the $4-$6M mark), Douglas (cap hit around the $3-$5M mark), Tonyan (cap hit around the $2-$4M mark), Lazard (cap hit around the $2-$4M mark). This however has a big impact on our cap for 2023 with outs on most contracts from 2024 onwards.
Alternatively you take the lowest case scenario and we are still $5.642M over the cap.
Ultimately what the Packers do will depend on 3 key things:
- The appetite for Rodgers to want to come back
- The details around the future cap rises due to the new TV money from 2023 onwards
- The wants of all the other players not named Aaron Rodgers.
RRyder823 wrote:FAH1223 wrote:RRyder823 wrote:If by "move money around easily" you mean they can cut a bunch of players then yes. You are correct.
Otherwise it's just non sense
Cutting players is one. Restructuring the big cap numbers is the other. Extending guys like Jaire is the other. And if 12 is back, it will need to be on an extension because he is NOT going to be on a $46M cap numbers.
This is probably the scenario that Rap Sheet reports that Rodgers and the front office went over with last week.
From another forum:
Given the futures deals we have recently signed and the ERFA options to be taken up, we are currently 57.024m over the 2022 salary cap(figures from OTC). To get under the cap there are several scenarios but I've tried to list the best and worst cases going forward:
Rodgers: Re-signs with the team for 3 years(+1 void year) on a deal worth between $75-$105M. His cap hit floor for 2022 is $26.543M and ceiling is $29.043M making the savings available as between $17.6M to $20.1M.
Bahktiari: Has between $6M and $12M of his roster bonus/salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $13.768M and cap ceiling is $18.268M making the savings available as between $4.5M to $9M.
Clark:Has between $6M and $12M of his roster bonus/salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $11.9M and cap ceiling is $16.4M making the savings available as between $4.5M to $9M.
Alexander: Signs a 4 year extension worth $76M. Cap floor is $5.694M and cap ceiling of $13.294M making the savings available as between $0 and $7.6M.
Cobb: Is either cut or agrees to restructure his contract to base pay plus $3.25M in bonuses (signing/roster). Cap floor is $2.783M and cap ceiling is $4.511M making the savings available as between $5.13M and $6.858M.
Lowry: Has between $2.4M and $3.9M of his salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $5.147M and cap ceiling is $6.272M making the savings available as between $1.8M to $2.925M.
Turner: Has between $2.4M and $4.2M of his salary restructured into a signing bonus. Cap floor is $6.09M and cap ceiling is $7.44M making the savings available as between $1.8M to $3.15M.
Amos: Signs a 2 year extension worth between $22.5M and $28M. Cap floor is $7.582M and cap ceiling of $11.982M making the savings available as between $0 and $4.4M.
P Smith: Is either cut or agrees to a 2 year extension(with 1 void year) worth between $27.5M and $32M. Cap floor is $7.25M and cap ceiling is $12.25M making the savings available as between $7.5M and $12.5M.
Z Smith: Is either cut or agrees to a 2 year extension(with 1 void year) worth between $35M and $40M. Cap floor is $12.38M and cap ceiling is $19.13M making the savings available as between $8.531M and $15.281M.
Based on those numbers you can take the best case scenario for each and we save $90.835M which allows us to re-sign Adams (cap hit around the $10-$12M mark), Campbell (cap hit around the $4-$6M mark), Douglas (cap hit around the $3-$5M mark), Tonyan (cap hit around the $2-$4M mark), Lazard (cap hit around the $2-$4M mark). This however has a big impact on our cap for 2023 with outs on most contracts from 2024 onwards.
Alternatively you take the lowest case scenario and we are still $5.642M over the cap.
Ultimately what the Packers do will depend on 3 key things:
- The appetite for Rodgers to want to come back
- The details around the future cap rises due to the new TV money from 2023 onwards
- The wants of all the other players not named Aaron Rodgers.
Even with all those restructures and maximum cap savings it takes the absolute lowest possible projections for new contracts to be handed out while also factoring in a extension for Jaire to make it work. (that last part alone discounts using "easilly" as a description for them to open the room)
That's alot of can kicking and guys looking to get paid taking team friendly deals to make work. Nothin easy about it
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I think you can make the argument that high in the draft luck is the majority factor as like you said most draft boards end up being pretty even.th87 wrote:RRyder823 wrote:FAH1223 wrote:
Cutting players is one. Restructuring the big cap numbers is the other. Extending guys like Jaire is the other. And if 12 is back, it will need to be on an extension because he is NOT going to be on a $46M cap numbers.
This is probably the scenario that Rap Sheet reports that Rodgers and the front office went over with last week.
From another forum:
Even with all those restructures and maximum cap savings it takes the absolute lowest possible projections for new contracts to be handed out while also factoring in a extension for Jaire to make it work. (that last part alone discounts using "easilly" as a description for them to open the room)
That's alot of can kicking and guys looking to get paid taking team friendly deals to make work. Nothin easy about it
Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app
Not sure where to put this, but replying here to generate discussion. But my hot take is that I think being a good GM is a total crapshoot.
Every NFL team has access to all the film and all the information. Most teams rate prospects at roughly the same tier, and there's likely very little variance between one team's board and another.
And so being considered a great GM is simply a function of retroactively determining if your draft picks worked. If they produced a star, you were largely lucky, and now you're considered a great GM, and if they didn't, you're probably fired. The GM who has the most favorable dice-rolls ends up a legend.
Ted Thompson's first pick (Rodgers) ended up being a grand slam, and so he was considered a wizard for a full decade plus, despite his other picks hitting at an average rate, including some hits (which all GMs can boast), and some misses (which all GMs can lament).
Ryan Pace had Mahomes and Trubisky neck and neck, and thankfully chose Trubisky. And now he's unemployed. But if he took the other path, he'd be considered a genius. Just a bad roll of the dice. No way to really know that Mahomes would grow and Trubisky wouldn't.
This is why former "greats" like Colbert, Jerry Reese, Polian, etc. are eventually shown the door. They didn't lose their touch - it's just that their misses outweighed their hits over time (or their hits weren't as impactful anymore), which I don't think is anything more than an unlucky slump for a period of time.
That also explains why Jerry Jones' entitled kids ended up building a pretty strong roster. They had the picks and had a pretty good run of picking impact players. Any of us could've done the same with good luck, just as any of us could've bombed.
So in terms of the Packers, Gute is no exception. He's had hits in the first round (Jaire, Gary), but some misses (Savage over Deebo Samuel). He's gotten little to nothing out of his receiver picks. So the team's success is simply a function of his good fortune in the first round, stars who were already in place, subtracted by the misses caused by his bad fortune.
Thoughts?
I don't exactly agree a GM is mostly luck but I do think luck plays a bigger role in sports than we tend to want to believe. Damn near every champion has some lucky break in their run.th87 wrote:RRyder823 wrote:FAH1223 wrote:
Cutting players is one. Restructuring the big cap numbers is the other. Extending guys like Jaire is the other. And if 12 is back, it will need to be on an extension because he is NOT going to be on a $46M cap numbers.
This is probably the scenario that Rap Sheet reports that Rodgers and the front office went over with last week.
From another forum:
Even with all those restructures and maximum cap savings it takes the absolute lowest possible projections for new contracts to be handed out while also factoring in a extension for Jaire to make it work. (that last part alone discounts using "easilly" as a description for them to open the room)
That's alot of can kicking and guys looking to get paid taking team friendly deals to make work. Nothin easy about it
Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app
Not sure where to put this, but replying here to generate discussion. But my hot take is that I think being a good GM is a total crapshoot.
Every NFL team has access to all the film and all the information. Most teams rate prospects at roughly the same tier, and there's likely very little variance between one team's board and another.
And so being considered a great GM is simply a function of retroactively determining if your draft picks worked. If they produced a star, you were largely lucky, and now you're considered a great GM, and if they didn't, you're probably fired. The GM who has the most favorable dice-rolls ends up a legend.
Ted Thompson's first pick (Rodgers) ended up being a grand slam, and so he was considered a wizard for a full decade plus, despite his other picks hitting at an average rate, including some hits (which all GMs can boast), and some misses (which all GMs can lament).
Ryan Pace had Mahomes and Trubisky neck and neck, and thankfully chose Trubisky. And now he's unemployed. But if he took the other path, he'd be considered a genius. Just a bad roll of the dice. No way to really know that Mahomes would grow and Trubisky wouldn't.
This is why former "greats" like Colbert, Jerry Reese, Polian, etc. are eventually shown the door. They didn't lose their touch - it's just that their misses outweighed their hits over time (or their hits weren't as impactful anymore), which I don't think is anything more than an unlucky slump for a period of time.
That also explains why Jerry Jones' entitled kids ended up building a pretty strong roster. They had the picks and had a pretty good run of picking impact players. Any of us could've done the same with good luck, just as any of us could've bombed.
So in terms of the Packers, Gute is no exception. He's had hits in the first round (Jaire, Gary), but some misses (Savage over Deebo Samuel). He's gotten little to nothing out of his receiver picks. So the team's success is simply a function of his good fortune in the first round, stars who were already in place, subtracted by the misses caused by his bad fortune.
Thoughts?
The funny part is if he simply waits for Rodgers to be done he would have got like two free seasons as he looked for a new QB. If love gets him fired it's a total self own. From a job security standpoint drafting Love was a huge gamble.stillgotgame wrote:Gute’s “luck” is going to be defined by Jordan Love. Trade up for QB and you’re all in.
Not surprisingly of course he wants Rodgers to stay. No way he survives a rebuild at this point. Fair weather fans and media will all say he sucks, it was only Rodgers who made us good.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:The funny part is if he simply waits for Rodgers to be done he would have got like two free seasons as he looked for a new QB. If love gets him fired it's a total self own. From a job security standpoint drafting Love was a huge gamble.stillgotgame wrote:Gute’s “luck” is going to be defined by Jordan Love. Trade up for QB and you’re all in.
Not surprisingly of course he wants Rodgers to stay. No way he survives a rebuild at this point. Fair weather fans and media will all say he sucks, it was only Rodgers who made us good.
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Yeah I'd say if you ranked all the GMs draft picks since Gute took over hed be in the top 25%. He's generally drafted well.Treebeard wrote:Jenkins is a Gute pick too. That was an A+ pick
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah I'd say if you ranked all the GMs draft picks since Gute took over hed be in the top 25%. He's generally drafted well.Treebeard wrote:Jenkins is a Gute pick too. That was an A+ pick
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