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MVP2110 wrote:

Spoiler:

Wooderson wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:You guys ripping Love and saying he's trash are being pretty harsh. Entering today's game he was Andy Herman's 5th highest rated offensive player, PFF had him with an above average grade. Today he had a couple bad throws(especially the last one) but he also had some nice throws(the throw to Musgrave was beautiful). He hasn't been great but he's far from being awful this year.

Do you have the numbers for PFF numbers you're referencing showing hes above average?

This had him at 25th entering the game today.

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Week 1- 60.8
Week 2- 59.3
Week 3- 63.9
Week 4- 68.1
Week 5- 53

Reminder that PFF considers a 60 grade average. So weeks 1 through 3 he was basically average. Week 4 he was slightly above average & Week 5 he was slightly below average

Does the 60 being average really apply to the QB spot? From looking online, I'm seeing the median for QBs to be in the low 70s at the end of the year. Don't have the access, but it would be interesting to see how what QBs have finished around 60 the last few years. Like Rodgers was apparently 77.5 last year, with a 60 benchmark as average that means he was fantastic?

Wooderson wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:

Spoiler:

Wooderson wrote:
Do you have the numbers for PFF numbers you're referencing showing hes above average?

This had him at 25th entering the game today.

Read on Twitter

Week 1- 60.8
Week 2- 59.3
Week 3- 63.9
Week 4- 68.1
Week 5- 53

Reminder that PFF considers a 60 grade average. So weeks 1 through 3 he was basically average. Week 4 he was slightly above average & Week 5 he was slightly below average

Does the 60 being average really apply to the QB spot? From looking online, I'm seeing the median for QBs to be in the low 70s at the end of the year. Don't have the access, but it would be interesting to see how what QBs have finished around 60 the last few years.

Not entirely sure, just going off of what PFF themselves say. Also combining that with Herman's grade. Again I don't think he's even been good, just that he hasn't been awful

MVP2110 wrote:

Wooderson wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:

Spoiler:

Week 1- 60.8
Week 2- 59.3
Week 3- 63.9
Week 4- 68.1
Week 5- 53

Reminder that PFF considers a 60 grade average. So weeks 1 through 3 he was basically average. Week 4 he was slightly above average & Week 5 he was slightly below average

Does the 60 being average really apply to the QB spot? From looking online, I'm seeing the median for QBs to be in the low 70s at the end of the year. Don't have the access, but it would be interesting to see how what QBs have finished around 60 the last few years.

Not entirely sure, just going off of what PFF themselves say. Also combining that with Herman's grade. Again I don't think he's even been good, just that he hasn't been awful

I don't think the 60 being average is relevant for QBs unless I'm missing something. QBs with a score of 60 don't seem to be near the top half. Unless by average they mean replacement level, which isn't really average for a starter.

Wooderson wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:

Wooderson wrote:
Does the 60 being average really apply to the QB spot? From looking online, I'm seeing the median for QBs to be in the low 70s at the end of the year. Don't have the access, but it would be interesting to see how what QBs have finished around 60 the last few years.

Not entirely sure, just going off of what PFF themselves say. Also combining that with Herman's grade. Again I don't think he's even been good, just that he hasn't been awful

I don't think the 60 being average is relevant for QBs unless I'm missing something. QBs with a score of 60 don't seem to be near the top half. Unless by average they mean replacement level, which isn't really average for a starter.

Sam Monson was on with Andy Herman and clarified that 60 is average and thats right about where they have Love so far

Also, there was no pressure on Wilson of any real consequence. IIRC the one sack was for what? -1 yd? The DLine got manhandled all day.

Defense doesn't deserve a pass even if they weren't the main reason we lost. We gave up nearly 350 yards of offense and 6.2 yards per play to 2023 Russell **** Wilson. I have no faith this unit can turn it around until Barry is gone.

Ron Swanson wrote:Defense doesn't deserve a pass even if they weren't the main reason we lost. We gave up nearly 350 yards of offense and 6.2 yards per play to 2023 Russell **** Wilson. I have no faith this unit can turn it around until Barry is gone.

I agree Barry should go, but I'm worried that the fact that we've kept 4 of our 6 opponents this year to 20 or less and with the way we ended last season, that Barry might be saving his job. I wouldn't mind a couple teams putting 40+ up on us if we fall out of it

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:Separate issue, even if Love completes the screen there what are the odds we block the one dude lol. Gotta be 50/50 at best

One of my biggest worries this year is that moving Stenavich from OL coach to OC is really hurting the OL development. Tom is an absolute stud but Runyan & Jenkins seem to have regressed a bit and I wonder if Luke Butkus just isn't as good as Stenavich was in developing those guys

I heard Andy Herman is an expert when it comes to these things so if you can't trust him, who can you really trust?

Why don't you debate him? You like portraying yourself as the local expert.

MVP2110 wrote:

Wooderson wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:
Not entirely sure, just going off of what PFF themselves say. Also combining that with Herman's grade. Again I don't think he's even been good, just that he hasn't been awful

I don't think the 60 being average is relevant for QBs unless I'm missing something. QBs with a score of 60 don't seem to be near the top half. Unless by average they mean replacement level, which isn't really average for a starter.

Sam Monson was on with Andy Herman and clarified that 60 is average and thats right about where they have Love so far

"Average" another word for Backup

Goff 90.4
Jackson 88.7
Allen 88.6
Tua 86.3
Mahomes 85.5
Stafford 84.5
Lawrence 81.8
Kirk Cousins 80.5
Geno 77.6
Hurts 76.5
Prescott 75.8
Herbert 74.0
Baker Mayfield 74.0
Justin Fields 73.6
CJ Stroud 73.3
Ryan Tannehill 72.0
Wilson 72.0
Purdy 71.3
Jimmy Garoppolo 68.7
Deshaun Watson 68.7
Joe Burrow 66.4
Sam Howell 66.0
Daniel Jones 65.6
Jordan Love 64.6
Derek Carr 63.7
Dobbs 63.7
Zach Wilson 61.4
Kenny Pickett 57.0
Mac Jones 53.7
Anthony Richardson 52.2
Bryce Young 51.0
Desmond Ridder 47.5

TroyD92 wrote:

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:Separate issue, even if Love completes the screen there what are the odds we block the one dude lol. Gotta be 50/50 at best

One of my biggest worries this year is that moving Stenavich from OL coach to OC is really hurting the OL development. Tom is an absolute stud but Runyan & Jenkins seem to have regressed a bit and I wonder if Luke Butkus just isn't as good as Stenavich was in developing those guys

I heard Andy Herman is an expert when it comes to these things so if you can't trust him, who can you really trust?

Why don't you debate him? You like portraying yourself as the local expert.

I'm actually using MVP's argument against him but of course you missed that, color me surprised.

Coming into today Love was 26th in EPA/play and 32nd in CPOE. More "unbiased metrics" that say Love has been horrendous.

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

TroyD92 wrote:

Dennis Reynolds wrote:
I heard Andy Herman is an expert when it comes to these things so if you can't trust him, who can you really trust?

Why don't you debate him? You like portraying yourself as the local expert.

I'm actually using MVP's argument against him but of course you missed that, color me surprised.

I'm honestly not sure what you were even referring to. I talked about the Oline regressing this year and wondering if that had to do with Stenavich getting a promotion and Butkus taking over, and that had something to do with Andy Herman's grades? I honestly didn't understand what you were getting at so I moved on

Yea, I was very much an optimist coming into the year, but he's been bad. I don't give AF what Andy Herman or PFF have to say.

I subscribed to PFF for a year and I still think their NFL draft stuff is useful, but when the graded Love below Fields in week one they lost me. Like, Love bobbling a snap impacted his grade.

Just asinine ****.

MVP2110 wrote:

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

TroyD92 wrote:
Why don't you debate him? You like portraying yourself as the local expert.

I'm actually using MVP's argument against him but of course you missed that, color me surprised.

I'm honestly not sure what you were even referring to. I talked about the Oline regressing this year and wondering if that had to do with Stenavich getting a promotion and Butkus taking over, and that had something to do with Andy Herman's grades? I honestly didn't understand what you were getting at so I moved on

You were saying you there was a 50% chance of that screen on 3rd and 4 going nowhere due to poor blocking when Herman pretty much said the play was there for Love to be made and that it would have worked.

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:

Dennis Reynolds wrote:
I'm actually using MVP's argument against him but of course you missed that, color me surprised.

I'm honestly not sure what you were even referring to. I talked about the Oline regressing this year and wondering if that had to do with Stenavich getting a promotion and Butkus taking over, and that had something to do with Andy Herman's grades? I honestly didn't understand what you were getting at so I moved on

You were saying you there was a 50% chance of that screen on 3rd and 4 going nowhere due to poor blocking when Herman pretty much said the play was there for Love to be made and that it would have worked.

Oh, Love should have absolutely thrown the screen pass, I'm not disagreeing at all on that. I was making a completely separate point about the blocking

ReasonablySober wrote:Yea, I was very much an optimist coming into the year, but he's been bad. I don't give AF what Andy Herman or PFF have to say.

I subscribed to PFF for a year and I still think their NFL draft stuff is useful, but when the graded Love below Fields in week one they lost me. Like, Love bobbling a snap impacted his grade.

Just asinine ****.

Putting a snap on the ground is generally a bad thing so yes that would be negatively graded.

MVP2110 wrote:

ReasonablySober wrote:Yea, I was very much an optimist coming into the year, but he's been bad. I don't give AF what Andy Herman or PFF have to say.

I subscribed to PFF for a year and I still think their NFL draft stuff is useful, but when the graded Love below Fields in week one they lost me. Like, Love bobbling a snap impacted his grade.

Just asinine ****.

Putting a snap on the ground is generally a bad thing so yes that would be negatively graded.

Nah, that's stupid.

ReasonablySober wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:

ReasonablySober wrote:Yea, I was very much an optimist coming into the year, but he's been bad. I don't give AF what Andy Herman or PFF have to say.

I subscribed to PFF for a year and I still think their NFL draft stuff is useful, but when the graded Love below Fields in week one they lost me. Like, Love bobbling a snap impacted his grade.

Just asinine ****.

Putting a snap on the ground is generally a bad thing so yes that would be negatively graded.

Nah, that's stupid.

I mean if you think a QB just dropping the ball on the ground is somehow not a bad thing more power to ya I guess.

MVP2110 wrote:

ReasonablySober wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:
Putting a snap on the ground is generally a bad thing so yes that would be negatively graded.

Nah, that's stupid.

I mean if you think a QB just dropping the ball on the ground is somehow not a bad thing more power to ya I guess.

I don't even think he lost the ball on the play. So my grade actually improves. Quick thinking and reflexes under pressure, that kid.

ReasonablySober wrote:

MVP2110 wrote:

ReasonablySober wrote:
Nah, that's stupid.

I mean if you think a QB just dropping the ball on the ground is somehow not a bad thing more power to ya I guess.

I don't even think he lost the ball on the play. So my grade actually improves. Quick thinking and reflexes under pressure, that kid.

Yes he did recover the ball and made a nice throw if I recall correctly, but seperate from the throw anytime a player puts the ball on the ground that's a negative. Research has shown that when the ball hits the ground it's basically 50/50 on who recovers, in this case Love got a really lucky bounce as the ball literally bounced right back up to him but it could have just as easily bounced away from him and Chicago could have recovered. So PFFs grade takes away the luck of the bounce and purely grades Love for putting the ball on the ground