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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:47 pm
by MVP2110
skones wrote:MVP2110 wrote:skones wrote:
That's not what's happening here. In fact, no one is saying Watson is good. We're pointing to specific plays. You're just being stubborn and refusing to acknowledge them because you don't like to blame Jordan Love for anything. That's why when asked if you think he should jump higher by insisting that was an actual contested catch "opportunity" you came over the top with rando tweets like I can't find a million of them that say Jordan Love can't hit the broad side of a barn.
How many times do I have to say this has absolutely nothing to do with Jordan Love. Several of these plays are contested because of a bad throw by Love. I'm comparing Watson to the other WRs on the roster who are also playing with Jordan Love. Jordan Love is a constant in this equation for every WR.
You were all about aDOT affecting completion percentage earlier this year, and Watson leads that category with players with 30 or more targets this season by a WIDE margin. But that doesn't fit your narrative, so you've thrown that out, equalized all route trees and opportunities among all receivers even though that's not a thing, and pointed explicitly to a rating when targeted, and ignored context.
Receivers DON'T receive the same type of targets. That's why they have different names, X, Z, and slot.
Watson isn't good. He's an athletic dude who can run in a straight line. That's his skill set. Love struggles down field, he struggles on the boundary, and we saw what an accurate QB who had his own issues because of injury, make use of that skill set last season. The blame falls on both, but blindly just attributing it to Watson being bad, as stated, ignores the other side of the coin.
adot absolutely matters but it's not as if Watson is only struggling on downfield throws and routes. If he was that'd be one thing but he's also struggled on short and medium targets too. As RonSwanson correctly pointed out Watson has basically been useless on anything other than slants or when he's wide open. Other WRs haven't had that problem
Also fun fact Reed has more targets of 20+ yards than Watson does and has had a much higher success rate.
On passes of 20+ more air yards Watson still has the lowest success rate
Reed 6/12
Watson 2/10
Musgrave 4/7
Doubs 2/8
Wicks 1/3
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:50 pm
by MVP2110
To add more context on medium throws (10-19 yards)
Reed 4/7
Watson 4/11
Musgrave 2/4
Doubs 11/22
Wicks 9/14
Watson has been the worst both on deep and medium throws
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:54 pm
by MVP2110
Just for fun, also adding throws less than 10 yards
Reed 13/19
Watson 6/10
Musgrave 14/19
Doubs 15/21
Wicks 6/9
Watson has been the worst target at every single level
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:23 pm
by WeekapaugGroove
Id be careful drawing to hard of conclusions with those sample sizes.
I don't think Watson has been any good but I have to admit after watching the individual plays I was maybe a little too hard on him.
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:27 pm
by MVP2110
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Id be careful drawing to hard of conclusions with those sample sizes.
I don't think Watson has been any good but I have to admit after watching the individual plays I was maybe a little too hard on him.
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I'm certainly not writing Watson off. But I think it's safe to say through the first 9 games he's been the worst of their pass catchers. I also have been extremely impressed with Wicks and would like to see him get more of an opportunity which likely comes at Watson's expense
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:28 pm
by skones
We'll just ignore that Jordan Love has a tendency to force throws on Watson that he doesn't with other receivers.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:30 pm
by ReasonablySober
MVP2110 wrote:adot absolutely matters but it's not as if Watson is only struggling on downfield throws and routes. If he was that'd be one thing but he's also struggled on short and medium targets too. As RonSwanson correctly pointed out Watson has basically been useless on anything other than slants or when he's wide open. Other WRs haven't had that problem
Absolutely not true. He had a drop on an easy one against Pittsburgh. Otherwise he's caught anything that wasn't knocked away or uncatchable.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:31 pm
by ReasonablySober
skones wrote:We'll just ignore that Jordan Love has a tendency to force throws on Watson that he doesn't with other receivers.
Yup. Watson is an X and is being thrown the balls that Love is worst at.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:32 pm
by WeekapaugGroove
MVP2110 wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Id be careful drawing to hard of conclusions with those sample sizes.
I don't think Watson has been any good but I have to admit after watching the individual plays I was maybe a little too hard on him.
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I'm certainly not writing Watson off. But I think it's safe to say through the first 9 games he's been the worst of their pass catchers. I also have been extremely impressed with Wicks and would like to see him get more of an opportunity which likely comes at Watson's expense
I think Musgrave has the highest ceiling if he can figure out how to not turn into a baby deer learning to walk when he gets a pass his way.
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:32 pm
by MVP2110
skones wrote:We'll just ignore that Jordan Love has a tendency to force throws on Watson that he doesn't with other receivers.
Jordan Love should absolutely stop forcing throws to Watson and give other guys a chance in those situations. We agree on that. One of Love's biggest flaws imo is the trust he seemingly has in Watson & Doubs and forces alot to them.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:36 pm
by MVP2110
ReasonablySober wrote:skones wrote:We'll just ignore that Jordan Love has a tendency to force throws on Watson that he doesn't with other receivers.
Yup. Watson is an X and is being thrown the balls that Love is worst at.
You also assume that on all of these attempts Watson is where he's supposed to be. Again from what I've heard he by far leads the team in incorrect routes run and is often lazy with his route running at that. I obviously don't have any numbers to back that up or show exactly how it's effected things but I don't really give Watson the benefit of the doubt
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:39 pm
by MVP2110
WeekapaugGroove wrote:MVP2110 wrote:WeekapaugGroove wrote:Id be careful drawing to hard of conclusions with those sample sizes.
I don't think Watson has been any good but I have to admit after watching the individual plays I was maybe a little too hard on him.
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I'm certainly not writing Watson off. But I think it's safe to say through the first 9 games he's been the worst of their pass catchers. I also have been extremely impressed with Wicks and would like to see him get more of an opportunity which likely comes at Watson's expense
I think Musgrave has the highest ceiling if he can figure out how to not turn into a baby deer learning to walk when he gets a pass his way.
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Yea it's easy to be excited about the Rookie targets. Musgrave Wicks & Reed all have looked really good for rookies imo
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:12 am
by M-C-G
If I am throwing a contested catch ball (theoretically)
Davante Adams (I know I know)
Doubs
Reed
Wicks
Toure
Musgrave
Watson
And if I am throwing a guy into space you can flip the bottom two guys to the top. We aren’t using guys right and that is on Love and MLF and I’ll take a second to also crap on the O line. This offense is meant to be set up by a strong running game and that part of the game hasn’t been up to par
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Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:38 am
by stillgotgame
ReasonablySober wrote:skones wrote:We'll just ignore that Jordan Love has a tendency to force throws on Watson that he doesn't with other receivers.
Yup. Watson is an X and is being thrown the balls that Love is worst at.
Clown post as usual. Look at all of Watson's incompletions, not just the one's that fit your agenda.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:40 am
by ReasonablySober
stillgotgame wrote:ReasonablySober wrote:skones wrote:We'll just ignore that Jordan Love has a tendency to force throws on Watson that he doesn't with other receivers.
Yup. Watson is an X and is being thrown the balls that Love is worst at.
Clown post as usual. Look at all of Watson's incompletions, not just the one's that fit your agenda.
I literally went through every single incompletion last night. Outside of exactly one pass from the Steelers game, if the ball was remotely in his vicinity (like, within five yards) and he didn't come down with it, you saw it on the last three pages. The rest are completions.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:45 am
by ReasonablySober
I charted every single throw his way. There was post about it and everything. When it was questioned I posted all the videos of every pass marked as one he could have came down with but didn't. It made PFF look like a clown show, sure, but you can't say I wasn't thorough.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:47 am
by stillgotgame
ReasonablySober wrote:stillgotgame wrote:ReasonablySober wrote:
Yup. Watson is an X and is being thrown the balls that Love is worst at.
Clown post as usual. Look at all of Watson's incompletions, not just the one's that fit your agenda.
I literally went through every single incompletion last night. Outside of excactly one pass from the Steelers game, if the ball was remotely in his vicinity (like, within five yards) and he didn't come down with it, you saw it on the last three pages. The rest are completions.
So you skipped the drop after Watson bizarrely ran 6 yards down field on a 3rd and 8, show it then.
How about the slant on 1st and 10 with 8:02 left in the second quarter that Watson alligator armed?
That's right, they don't fit your agenda.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:48 am
by ReasonablySober
stillgotgame wrote:ReasonablySober wrote:stillgotgame wrote:
Clown post as usual. Look at all of Watson's incompletions, not just the one's that fit your agenda.
I literally went through every single incompletion last night. Outside of excactly one pass from the Steelers game, if the ball was remotely in his vicinity (like, within five yards) and he didn't come down with it, you saw it on the last three pages. The rest are completions.
So you skipped the drop after Watson bizarrely ran 6 yards down field on a 3rd and 8, show it then.
How about the slant on 1st and 10 with 8:02 left in the second quarter that Watson alligator armed?
That's right, they don't fit your agenda.
In what games?
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:50 am
by ReasonablySober
It's bizarre that I'm accused of being anti-Love after being a huge defender of him and the pick for three years, and during the draft my position on 2nd round players was ANYONE BUT CHRISTIAN WATSON.
Re: Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:51 am
by stillgotgame
ReasonablySober wrote:stillgotgame wrote:ReasonablySober wrote:
I literally went through every single incompletion last night. Outside of excactly one pass from the Steelers game, if the ball was remotely in his vicinity (like, within five yards) and he didn't come down with it, you saw it on the last three pages. The rest are completions.
So you skipped the drop after Watson bizarrely ran 6 yards down field on a 3rd and 8, show it then.
How about the slant on 1st and 10 with 8:02 left in the second quarter that Watson alligator armed?
That's right, they don't fit your agenda.
In what games?
Steelers, 2nd quarter.