Jordan Love Thread - All Aboard the Love Train

[WeekapaugGroove]

I get annoyed by some aspects of his coaching but it's borderline amazing that MLF has this O performing at a top 10 level with this young group.

I was a little surprised by the graphic yesterday saying the Packers were top 3 in opponent pressure rate this year, especially considering the rough patch early. So from a blocking perspective it's been actually really good for Love and that's a big deal for a young QB. It's not a coincidence his worst games mostly came during the bad blocking point of the season.

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[MickeyDavis]

The receivers have been pretty good but what we don't know is how many times they ran the wrong route and/or made the wrong read or failed to get open when the play breaks down. Maybe that's rarely happened but we don't know. Those are things you learn with experience, which our WRs don't have yet. I wonder what he'd look like with Davante or another top receiver.

[LUKE23]

The WR and TE look like keepers but that still doesn’t discount the fact they had Bakh for one game and Watson and Jones have missed a large chunk of the season. As frustrating as Watson is, he still is our #1 simply because he changes how entire defenses have to cover us. Jones is a game breaker when healthy and we haven’t had him really at all.

Now to be clear, I do think they have a pretty solid nucleus of weapons but I’d still belooking to upgrade WR1, LT, and RB (assuming Jones goes).

This is the youngest offense in the NFL and one of the youngest of the past few years. That fact paired with a decent amount of injuries to key guys has to factor into the overall evaluation.

[jute2003]

I dont think Love has played like a top5 qb but I do think he has looked above average for the most part and capable of winning. All things considered, he has shown plenty.

The wr's and te's look like keepers and have a super high ceiling but have **** up A LOT. The Oline has gotten better over the course of the season but have **** up A LOT and still like to give up pressure when they really cant. the rbs have been mostly poop.

[MoMM]

The WR and TE look like keepers but that still doesn’t discount the fact they had Bakh for one game and Watson and Jones have missed a large chunk of the season. As frustrating as Watson is, he still is our #1 simply because he changes how entire defenses have to cover us. Jones is a game breaker when healthy and we haven’t had him really at all.

Now to be clear, I do think they have a pretty solid nucleus of weapons but I’d still belooking to upgrade WR1, LT, and RB (assuming Jones goes).

This is the youngest offense in the NFL and one of the youngest of the past few years. That fact paired with a decent amount of injuries to key guys has to factor into the overall evaluation.

The least expensive O in the NFL by a wide margin and counting Bakh as part of it

[humanrefutation]

Jordan Love is in the "good enough to bring back next year but not good enough to be a franchise QB yet" camp. He's flashed some brilliance at times but continues to struggle with his accuracy and footwork.

Thing is, there are things he's consistently shown that should not be overlooked. He has tremendous poise in the pocket. He carries himself with confidence. He's unafraid of the moment. He doesn't make a lot of boneheaded decisions with the ball. He seems to throw the ball well on the run.

For a first year QB with a young team around him, there's a lot to like. Enough to believe that he could be a top 10 QB. But I am worried about his lack of accuracy and footwork, as those have been problems with him since he was in college. I know his receivers are young and have run the wrong routes on more than one occasion. But too often, Jordan has just missed an open guy or underthrown an open guy which has limited YAC.

[ReasonablySober]

Jordan Love is in the "good enough to bring back next year but not good enough to be a franchise QB yet" camp. He's flashed some brilliance at times but continues to struggle with his accuracy and footwork.

Thing is, there are things he's consistently shown that should not be overlooked. He has tremendous poise in the pocket. He carries himself with confidence. He's unafraid of the moment. He doesn't make a lot of boneheaded decisions with the ball. He seems to throw the ball well on the run.

For a first year QB with a young team around him, there's a lot to like. Enough to believe that he could be a top 10 QB. But I am worried about his lack of accuracy and footwork, as those have been problems with him since he was in college. I know his receivers are young and have run the wrong routes on more than one occasion. But too often, Jordan has just missed an open guy or underthrown an open guy which has limited YAC.

Perfectly said.

[MVP2110]

Jordan Love is in the "good enough to bring back next year but not good enough to be a franchise QB yet" camp. He's flashed some brilliance at times but continues to struggle with his accuracy and footwork.

Thing is, there are things he's consistently shown that should not be overlooked. He has tremendous poise in the pocket. He carries himself with confidence. He's unafraid of the moment. He doesn't make a lot of boneheaded decisions with the ball. He seems to throw the ball well on the run.

For a first year QB with a young team around him, there's a lot to like. Enough to believe that he could be a top 10 QB. But I am worried about his lack of accuracy and footwork, as those have been problems with him since he was in college. I know his receivers are young and have run the wrong routes on more than one occasion. But too often, Jordan has just missed an open guy or underthrown an open guy which has limited YAC.

Do you believe he's played like a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season or are you saying he needs to improve upon his play in the 2nd half of this season? Because by every metric he's been a clear top 10 QB in the 2nd half and probably a top 5 guy. Now I understand that you can't just throw out the 1st half of the season but what I'm trying to figure out is if people still don't think he's been good enough to be a franchise guy or if they are just hoping he stays as good as he's been these last few weeks.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, I didn't think I'd be saying this a few weeks ago, but to me, Love has looked like he is elevating towards franchise QB.

Now, the crappy thing is that we may have to maybe make that decision this offseason (unless we roll the dice the next year) - but my eye test has seen him make a handful of, "I'm gonna be Aaron Rodgers, watch me throw this doing mountain climbers with my feet," throws - but outside of that, has looked very, very good.

It's hard to say for sure because you want to see more than 5 or 6 games as a prove it, but he's looked really good of late to me.

[ReasonablySober]

Jordan Love is in the "good enough to bring back next year but not good enough to be a franchise QB yet" camp. He's flashed some brilliance at times but continues to struggle with his accuracy and footwork.

Thing is, there are things he's consistently shown that should not be overlooked. He has tremendous poise in the pocket. He carries himself with confidence. He's unafraid of the moment. He doesn't make a lot of boneheaded decisions with the ball. He seems to throw the ball well on the run.

For a first year QB with a young team around him, there's a lot to like. Enough to believe that he could be a top 10 QB. But I am worried about his lack of accuracy and footwork, as those have been problems with him since he was in college. I know his receivers are young and have run the wrong routes on more than one occasion. But too often, Jordan has just missed an open guy or underthrown an open guy which has limited YAC.

Do you believe he's played like a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season or are you saying he needs to improve upon his play in the 2nd half of this season? Because by every metric he's been a clear top 10 QB in the 2nd half and probably a top 5 guy. Now I understand that you can't just throw out the 1st half of the season but what I'm trying to figure out is if people still don't think he's been good enough to be a franchise guy or if they are just hoping he stays as good as he's been these last few weeks.

Love's season isn't this pie you can neatly divide between 1st half and second half. I don't know why you're doing that.

Love's QBR ranking by week:

5
7
20
32
25
3
29
18
7
9
1
2
10
14

Ranking on the season: 13th

Good, bad, a blip of being good, then bad, then above average, then really good, back down to average again.

It's been a rollercoaster from the start.

[Kerb Hohl]

Jordan Love is in the "good enough to bring back next year but not good enough to be a franchise QB yet" camp. He's flashed some brilliance at times but continues to struggle with his accuracy and footwork.

Thing is, there are things he's consistently shown that should not be overlooked. He has tremendous poise in the pocket. He carries himself with confidence. He's unafraid of the moment. He doesn't make a lot of boneheaded decisions with the ball. He seems to throw the ball well on the run.

For a first year QB with a young team around him, there's a lot to like. Enough to believe that he could be a top 10 QB. But I am worried about his lack of accuracy and footwork, as those have been problems with him since he was in college. I know his receivers are young and have run the wrong routes on more than one occasion. But too often, Jordan has just missed an open guy or underthrown an open guy which has limited YAC.

Do you believe he's played like a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season or are you saying he needs to improve upon his play in the 2nd half of this season? Because by every metric he's been a clear top 10 QB in the 2nd half and probably a top 5 guy. Now I understand that you can't just throw out the 1st half of the season but what I'm trying to figure out is if people still don't think he's been good enough to be a franchise guy or if they are just hoping he stays as good as he's been these last few weeks.

Love's season isn't this pie you can neatly divide between 1st half and second half. I don't know why you're doing that.

Love's QBR ranking by week:

5
7
20
32
25
3
29
18
7
9
1
2
10
14

Ranking on the season: 13th

Good, bad, a blip of being good, then bad, then above average, then really good, back down to average again.

It's been a rollercoaster from the start.

Ranking him against the league on a weekly basis isn't the best metric. For a full season, sure - but part of the reason he's 14th this week is because Joe Barry let Baker Mayfield bake. He was good and this week 13 other QBs happened to be better.

Regardless - "back down to average again" is a real stretch there. Look at Aaron Rodgers or any other elite QB and they'll put up the #14 QBR in the league in a given week. That trend looks really good to me - but I need more data to officially be sold on him.

[ReasonablySober]

Do you believe he's played like a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season or are you saying he needs to improve upon his play in the 2nd half of this season? Because by every metric he's been a clear top 10 QB in the 2nd half and probably a top 5 guy. Now I understand that you can't just throw out the 1st half of the season but what I'm trying to figure out is if people still don't think he's been good enough to be a franchise guy or if they are just hoping he stays as good as he's been these last few weeks.

Love's season isn't this pie you can neatly divide between 1st half and second half. I don't know why you're doing that.

Love's QBR ranking by week:

5
7
20
32
25
3
29
18
7
9
1
2
10
14

Ranking on the season: 13th

Good, bad, a blip of being good, then bad, then above average, then really good, back down to average again.

It's been a rollercoaster from the start.

Ranking him against the league on a weekly basis isn't the best metric. For a full season, sure - but part of the reason he's 14th this week is because Joe Barry let Baker Mayfield bake. He was good and this week 13 other QBs happened to be better.

Regardless - "back down to average again" is a real stretch there. Look at Aaron Rodgers or any other elite QB and they'll put up the #14 QBR in the league in a given week. That trend looks really good to me - but I need more data to officially be sold on him.

He was also #14 because 12 teams started backup QBs this week, including 10 ranked lower than Love.

[BUCKnation]

I don’t know how you watch that game and think he was flat out bad. The miss to reed was brutal and there were a couple of other frustrating misses but with most of them, he’d come back on the next play and throw a dime. He’s done a good job of not having consecutive bad throws, which also makes it a bit frustrating they still exist.

An underrated part when evaluating yesterday were the constant injuries to his weapons. Jones was used sparingly after the first drive, reed was in and out in the 4th, same with doubs and kraft. The last series before the fumble on 4th was a lineup of wicks, melton, heath, sims and taylor.

I think it’s pretty clear that with a full complement or most of his top weapons he can perform at a high level, but he just hasn’t had that for much of the year.

[Kerb Hohl]

Love's season isn't this pie you can neatly divide between 1st half and second half. I don't know why you're doing that.

Love's QBR ranking by week:

5
7
20
32
25
3
29
18
7
9
1
2
10
14

Ranking on the season: 13th

Good, bad, a blip of being good, then bad, then above average, then really good, back down to average again.

It's been a rollercoaster from the start.

Ranking him against the league on a weekly basis isn't the best metric. For a full season, sure - but part of the reason he's 14th this week is because Joe Barry let Baker Mayfield bake. He was good and this week 13 other QBs happened to be better.

Regardless - "back down to average again" is a real stretch there. Look at Aaron Rodgers or any other elite QB and they'll put up the #14 QBR in the league in a given week. That trend looks really good to me - but I need more data to officially be sold on him.

He was also #14 because 12 teams started backup QBs this week, including 10 ranked lower than Love.

I also do get that...but if we get further into the weeds:

Jets, Bengals, Chargers, Texans...probably 4 of the 12 where "playing a backup" actually matters. Put a blindfold on and distinguish between a rookie Richardson vs. Gardner, Daniel Jones vs. Devito, Pickett vs. Mitch, etc.

But back to the point - I don't really understand how that trend you posted doesn't look promising as hell. But I want to him to routinely be in that upper tier for like 10 more games or whatever going into next year.

[MVP2110]

Jordan Love is in the "good enough to bring back next year but not good enough to be a franchise QB yet" camp. He's flashed some brilliance at times but continues to struggle with his accuracy and footwork.

Thing is, there are things he's consistently shown that should not be overlooked. He has tremendous poise in the pocket. He carries himself with confidence. He's unafraid of the moment. He doesn't make a lot of boneheaded decisions with the ball. He seems to throw the ball well on the run.

For a first year QB with a young team around him, there's a lot to like. Enough to believe that he could be a top 10 QB. But I am worried about his lack of accuracy and footwork, as those have been problems with him since he was in college. I know his receivers are young and have run the wrong routes on more than one occasion. But too often, Jordan has just missed an open guy or underthrown an open guy which has limited YAC.

Do you believe he's played like a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season or are you saying he needs to improve upon his play in the 2nd half of this season? Because by every metric he's been a clear top 10 QB in the 2nd half and probably a top 5 guy. Now I understand that you can't just throw out the 1st half of the season but what I'm trying to figure out is if people still don't think he's been good enough to be a franchise guy or if they are just hoping he stays as good as he's been these last few weeks.

Love's season isn't this pie you can neatly divide between 1st half and second half. I don't know why you're doing that.

Love's QBR ranking by week:

5
7
20
32
25
3
29
18
7
9
1
2
10
14

Ranking on the season: 13th

Good, bad, a blip of being good, then bad, then above average, then really good, back down to average again.

It's been a rollercoaster from the start.

He was 22nd in DVOA about mid way through the season(I remember because some people said he was awful and I was having the debate with them). He is now up to 11th in DVOA

Here are his numbers for every week of the season for EPA, CPOE, and the Composite score

EPA:
Week 1: 1st
Week 2: 3rd
Week 3: 16th
Week 4: 23rd
Week 5: 27th
Week 7: 6th
Week 8: 26th
Week 9: 7th
Week 10: 11th
Week 11: 6th
Week 12: 3rd
Week 13: 6th
Week 14: 18th
Week 15: 11th

CPOE:
Week 1: 23rd
Week 2: 29th
Week 3: 30th
Week 4: 19th
Week 5: 30th
Week 7: 12th
Week 8: 25th
Week 9: 5th
Week 10: 17th
Week 11: 10th
Week 12: 7th
Week 13: 6th
Week 14: 11th
Week 15: 6th


Composite:
Week 1: 5th
Week 2: 18th
Week 3: 22nd
Week 4: 22nd
Week 5: 30th
Week 7: 7th
Week 8: 26th
Week 9: 3rd
Week 10: 13th
Week 11: 5th
Week 12: 3rd
Week 13: 5th
Week 14: 15th
Week 15: 8th

His completion % has improved every single month of the season and overall is the 6th best in the NFL in the 2nd half of the season after being well below for the first half of the season.

Even using Passer Rating like you just did, the first half of the season his average ranking was 17th in the NFL, in the second half that has improved to 7th in the NFL so by the metric you just used he's been a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season.

There is a very significant difference in how he played the 1st half of the year where he was in the 20-22 range of QBs and the 2nd half of the season where he's in the 5-10 range of QBs which is why I asked if the fans that remain skeptical of Love believe he needs to improve on what he's done the second half of the season or if he just needs to continue to do what he's done. I can understand being skeptical that he will keep that level of play up and wanting to see more of it, but I can't understand the thinking that what he's done in these last few weeks isn't good enough considering basically every metric we use has him in the 5-10 range during that span

[M-C-G]

Do you believe he's played like a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season or are you saying he needs to improve upon his play in the 2nd half of this season? Because by every metric he's been a clear top 10 QB in the 2nd half and probably a top 5 guy. Now I understand that you can't just throw out the 1st half of the season but what I'm trying to figure out is if people still don't think he's been good enough to be a franchise guy or if they are just hoping he stays as good as he's been these last few weeks.

Love's season isn't this pie you can neatly divide between 1st half and second half. I don't know why you're doing that.

Love's QBR ranking by week:

5
7
20
32
25
3
29
18
7
9
1
2
10
14

Ranking on the season: 13th

Good, bad, a blip of being good, then bad, then above average, then really good, back down to average again.

It's been a rollercoaster from the start.

He was 22nd in DVOA about mid way through the season(I remember because some people said he was awful and I was having the debate with them). He is now up to 11th in DVOA

Here are his numbers for every week of the season for EPA, CPOE, and the Composite score

EPA:
Week 1: 1st
Week 2: 3rd
Week 3: 16th
Week 4: 23rd
Week 5: 27th
Week 7: 6th
Week 8: 26th
Week 9: 7th
Week 10: 11th
Week 11: 6th
Week 12: 3rd
Week 13: 6th
Week 14: 18th
Week 15: 11th

CPOE:
Week 1: 23rd
Week 2: 29th
Week 3: 30th
Week 4: 19th
Week 5: 30th
Week 7: 12th
Week 8: 25th
Week 9: 5th
Week 10: 17th
Week 11: 10th
Week 12: 7th
Week 13: 6th
Week 14: 11th
Week 15: 6th


Composite:
Week 1: 5th
Week 2: 18th
Week 3: 22nd
Week 4: 22nd
Week 5: 30th
Week 7: 7th
Week 8: 26th
Week 9: 3rd
Week 10: 13th
Week 11: 5th
Week 12: 3rd
Week 13: 5th
Week 14: 15th
Week 15: 8th

His completion % has improved every single month of the season and overall is the 6th best in the NFL in the 2nd half of the season after being well below for the first half of the season.

Even using Passer Rating like you just did, the first half of the season his average ranking was 17th in the NFL, in the second half that has improved to 7th in the NFL so by the metric you just used he's been a top 10 QB in the 2nd half of the season.

There is a very significant difference in how he played the 1st half of the year where he was in the 20-22 range of QBs and the 2nd half of the season where he's in the 5-10 range of QBs which is why I asked if the fans that remain skeptical of Love believe he needs to improve on what he's done the second half of the season or if he just needs to continue to do what he's done. I can understand being skeptical that he will keep that level of play up and wanting to see more of it, but I can't understand the thinking that what he's done in these last few weeks isn't good enough considering basically every metric we use has him in the 5-10 range during that span

I know Mahomes is having a down year but could you post how Love has compared to him with these stats?

I feel like both guys have very young pass catchers (other than Kelce) with kind of similar RB situations. Curious to see how those two stack up


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[ReasonablySober]

MVP I think those numbers show exactly what I did with QBR. Love's been a rollercoaster.

As for Mahomes, I think they're honestly in two different situations and Mahomes would kill for the Packers core of receivers. Mahomes is throwing to a bunch of crap.

[LUKE23]

The reason that second half verses first half analysis IS significant is that we are talking about a QB that is in his first year starting, with a crazy young supporting cast. We don't even need to look at league wide rankings, just compare him to himself from the start of the season. The key here is putting together another three great games to end the season.

[LUKE23]

MVP I think those numbers show exactly what I did with QBR. Love's been a rollercoaster.

As for Mahomes, I think they're honestly in two different situations and Mahomes would kill for the Packers core of receivers. Mahomes is throwing to a bunch of crap.

I like our overall set of weapons at full strength, but missing Watson, Jones, and Musgrave for a lot of combined games has definitely hampered their big play ability as well.

[ReasonablySober]

Regardless, it doesn't really matter one way or another. He's locked in at a crazy low contract next year and the Packers can wait to see if those fundamentals get cleaned up next season.