I love how the experts say you can't grade a draft until 3 years out and then proceed to hand out grades anyway. And I love that we complain about experts doing exactly what they say the can't do, but yet eat it up anyway.
Looks like we got lots of Bs.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/3/85 ... kers-lions
SB Nation: B
Mel Kiper Jr.: B
CBS Sports: B+
Sports Illustrated: B+
NFL.com: B
One has to wonder why the Packers waited until the fourth round to address their glaring hole at interior linebacker. They doubled down on defensive backs in the first two rounds (Arizona State's Damarious Randall and Miami Ohio's Quinten Rollins) and spent their third pick on a wide receiver (Ty Montgomery out of Stanford), which is already one of the deepest position groups on the team. But GM Ted Thompson has always been about drafting the best player on the board, regardless of positional needs.
Which brings us to the most interesting Green Bay draft pick: UCLA quarterback Brett Hundley. In a move reminiscent of Aaron Rodgers' selection in 2005, the Packers plucked Hundley from his free fall in the fifth round. Rodgers is only 31, so it's too early to talk about Hundly as the heir apparent. But Rodgers' injury two years ago exposed Green Bay's lack of depth at quarterback, and the Packers can always flip Hundley if he develops into an asset.
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No idea how this draft class will be counted, although I think to make it clear we'd have to add the UFA to any draft class because one or more of Crockett RB/Rotheram OL/Dantzler LB could be a stud.
For now I'm feeling quite pleased. I guess A-/B+ in terms of landing the talent we NEED without necessarily REACHING for them.
It seemed the theme of draft day was special teams.
In general I'm very happy with addressing special teams. Some say it's only 10 plays a game, others say it is 33% of your team. All I know is in games nowadays they are closer matches against good competition and it is often 1-2 plays a game that can change a win/loss. The Seattle game obviously with all our ST gaffs, and even the Buffalo game a returned punt is the difference. Does the Buffalo game give us HFA and not travel to Seattle? Don't remember anymore, but it's possible.
MM used to seem like the philosophy was as long as ST doesn't cost you a game it's OK, but it surely cost us a couple games last year. It seems most of the 8 players in this draft have had a POSITIVE role in college in special teams, or seemed well equipped to EXCEL in that area.
Onto the picks:
#1 30th Damarious Randall, Arizona State CB/S
Is he a safety or corner or both? I think he should be fine at corner. He seems very talented and should find his way onto the field in either nickle or dime situations this year. He could push to start outside but I think it's too early for that, he may push Hyde for Hyde's hybrid spot as the 5th DB in capers Defense, Hyde does have a couple years experience over him, but I think Randall is a faster more athletic player.
#2 62nd Quienten Rollins, CB Miami (OH)
Crazy that he only has 1 year of football experience. Him and Goodson will have some good competition for best basketball player on the team, although Davante rules them for his dunks alone. Excited to see what Joe Whitt can do with this kid. Whitt turned Shields into a solid corner but at least Shields played football for 3 years as a WR! This kid must be dripping with so much raw talent for him to go as high as he did and to be get defensive player of the year MAC honors. In 2 or 3 years we could be talking about Rollins as one of our best corners in years, this could be a project with a big payoffs. Big investment for such a raw kid, TT really swung for the fences. It may seem like too much secondary too early but we had a luxury of secondary talent poached (House/Tramon), and I'm of the philosophy you can't have too many good DBs. Im glad we are restocking our DBs in the NFL era of pass pass pass. Everyone's a 3000 yard passer nowadays, this is a priority for your defense.
#3 94th Ty Montgomery, WR Stanford.
Fans were begging for an ILB, and what does TT do??? Gives us a WR.
Oh but what a find I say. This is my SEXY pick of the draft. I'm super excited about having a return game!!!
We have had the most pathetic KO return game for the longest time. We have a HIGHER chance of an opposing kicker to kick the ball out of bounce to get good field position, then by actual return. It's actually better to root for a kicker to slip and fall, then see us get a return go past the 20. (In other words the chances of a big return were slim to none). Worthless garbage return game, so many times we couldn't even get to the 20, I was just happy when we actually made it to the 20 yard line. Our return game was so pathetic, I was rooting for 20 yard line, NOT A KO TD, not a long run, just get pass the f'in 20 yard line!!!!
I like giving our offense a boost of better field position. We have an elite offense, but even the best offense, you can't always expect them to go mistake free and march 80 yards every friggin time. We had to count on Rodgers finding Jordy for some ridiculous bombs at least once to counter some of that terrible field position. Give the offense a boost! An occassional long return, and additional starting position would make our offense even more dangerous.
I also think in the grind it out games field position becomes important. In the close grind it out games everything becomes more important and that's where ST's and the return game begins to show its ugly warts or help you shine.
#4 129th Jake Ryan, ILB Michigan
129 picks and a couple days later, Packer fans finally got what they were asking for. Oh the agony of the wait. While Packer nation was going on a frenzied panic for a couple of days, TT patiently waited until the LB they liked was sitting in front of them for the taking. Instead of reaching for one day 1-2, they were able to grab 3 other players, before they finally got the ILB they were looking for. That TT sure has balls of steel to wait that long when you have a desperate need at a particular position.
The fate of the world seems to be sitting on Jake Ryan. Is he the cureall for the holes in our defense???
Personally I just want a guy that hits some people and stop the run and get us to 3rd and long. Let our plethora of DB talent and high priced pass rushers do all the work on 3rd down. I would love it if he can cover the middle on 3rd down and work properly in space. He only has a year under his belt as an inside LB, not sure how good he can do in coverage, that might be asking a lot, especially for a rookie. If the combination of Jake/Clay/Sam/Joe Thomas can just be good enough...we are OK. We don't need elite, we just need good enough. Hopefully Jake plugs in fine, HE CAN'T BE WORSE THAN BRAD JONES.
#5 #147 Brett Hundley QB, UCLA
It's been a while since we picked up a QB. Also interesting the one time we moved in the draft, where there was plenty of talk from fans about moving down, and then desperately begging to move up. Would love to see Brett a couple years from now after a few seasons in the MM QB school. Could be a Matt Hassleback/Aaron Brooks/Mark Brunell scenario of building up asset and trading it off, while also turning into a promising backup. Probably too early in Rodgers career to be the future, but you never know, there's nothing wrong with building up a QB when it's always 1 play away. Either as a long term backup and eventual replacement or as a possible tradeable asset in a few years, it's a good move with the potential he's shown and the value at 147th overall.
#6 206th Aaron Ripkowski FB, Oklahoma
I'm a Kuhn fan ok. I know I sound harsh lately, but father time stops for no one. His knowledge of the offense may rival Rodgers, but he's 33 years old, was never fast or that powerful to begin with, and can't hit the holes that great anymore, and surely can't be better than fresh young legs on STs. I heard some people complaining about drafting a FB this early in the draft, I'm just wondering who are they saving the 6th round pick for? Are they waiting for Tom Brady? At the 6th round I'm game for ANYONE who can make a difference regardless of position.
I love this pick!!! Old school football player that loves to hit and ranked as the best fullback in the draft. Love the idea of giving the offense a fullback that can open holes for Lacy. Lacy doesn't need much, just give him a crease and he blasts through, so the idea of actually getting Lacy a hole and giving him space and seeing what he can do...Oh my. When has Lacy disappointed when he's had room to run???? Like NEVER! How awesome would it be to see Lacy getting to the LOS without a LB already on top of him???
Anything to make our running game even better makes me feel all giggly inside like a 12 year old girl at a One Direction concert. It's all like butterflies and...oh I can't explain it!!
#7 210th Christian Ringo DL, Louisiana - Lafayette
At this point, I'm happy if he can make the roster and be beneficial on STs. I've heard them throw around Mike Daniels name, wow that's a tall order. We definitely could use more help, need more fatties on the line, especially with Raji and Guion on 1 year deals. Small school sleeper according to this:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/29/cff-overview-di-sleepers/
There was also some talk about him being a long snapper...Well Goode is 30 years old and I guess the wear and tear isn't so bad on a LS so maybe Goode is OK for another 3 or 4 years at min., but hey it's not a bad idea to have a young backup in case of emergency...
Overall why not take a shot on a small school but promising prospect, not a bad risk at 210th pick.
#8 213th Kennard Backman, TE, Alabama-Birmingham
Again, just happy if he makes the roster and is beneficial on STs. We are about as weak as it gets on TEs, next to ILB, this is our weakest position, so I'm glad they actually invested something at the TE position, even if it's a lateround pick.
Quarless is Meh, Dick is decent and hopefully getting better, and Justin Perello is an unknown. I bet Kennard and Justin are fighting for the final roster spot, I doubt they go with more than 3 TEs with the 3 QBs and 6 WRs on the roster.
Overall this is a team that doesn't need a lot of starters and only needed some depth, and besides terrible ILB play and one other terrible weakness that prevented them from going to a SuperBowl: Special Teams!!!
An even average special teams this team gets either HFA throughout the playoffs or defeats Seattle. This weekend's draft was all about cleaning up one of the biggest weaknesses on this football team.
They addressed the ILB, the depth, and the STs. Seems like they covered everything they NEEDED yet not in the order of NEED everyone was begging.
So how do you rate this draft (which is ridiculously early to do) or maybe a better way to say it: What is your impression of this 2015 draft (you can include the UFAs)?
For now I'm feeling quite pleased. I guess A-/B+ in terms of landing the talent we NEED without necessarily REACHING for them.
It seemed the theme of draft day was special teams.
In general I'm very happy with addressing special teams. Some say it's only 10 plays a game, others say it is 33% of your team. All I know is in games nowadays they are closer matches against good competition and it is often 1-2 plays a game that can change a win/loss. The Seattle game obviously with all our ST gaffs, and even the Buffalo game a returned punt is the difference. Does the Buffalo game give us HFA and not travel to Seattle? Don't remember anymore, but it's possible.
MM used to seem like the philosophy was as long as ST doesn't cost you a game it's OK, but it surely cost us a couple games last year. It seems most of the 8 players in this draft have had a POSITIVE role in college in special teams, or seemed well equipped to EXCEL in that area.
Onto the picks:
#1 30th Damarious Randall, Arizona State CB/S
Is he a safety or corner or both? I think he should be fine at corner. He seems very talented and should find his way onto the field in either nickle or dime situations this year. He could push to start outside but I think it's too early for that, he may push Hyde for Hyde's hybrid spot as the 5th DB in capers Defense, Hyde does have a couple years experience over him, but I think Randall is a faster more athletic player.
#2 62nd Quienten Rollins, CB Miami (OH)
Crazy that he only has 1 year of football experience. Him and Goodson will have some good competition for best basketball player on the team, although Davante rules them for his dunks alone. Excited to see what Joe Whitt can do with this kid. Whitt turned Shields into a solid corner but at least Shields played football for 3 years as a WR! This kid must be dripping with so much raw talent for him to go as high as he did and to be get defensive player of the year MAC honors. In 2 or 3 years we could be talking about Rollins as one of our best corners in years, this could be a project with a big payoffs. Big investment for such a raw kid, TT really swung for the fences. It may seem like too much secondary too early but we had a luxury of secondary talent poached (House/Tramon), and I'm of the philosophy you can't have too many good DBs. Im glad we are restocking our DBs in the NFL era of pass pass pass. Everyone's a 3000 yard passer nowadays, this is a priority for your defense.
#3 94th Ty Montgomery, WR Stanford.
Fans were begging for an ILB, and what does TT do??? Gives us a WR.
Oh but what a find I say. This is my SEXY pick of the draft. I'm super excited about having a return game!!!
We have had the most pathetic KO return game for the longest time. We have a HIGHER chance of an opposing kicker to kick the ball out of bounce to get good field position, then by actual return. It's actually better to root for a kicker to slip and fall, then see us get a return go past the 20. (In other words the chances of a big return were slim to none). Worthless garbage return game, so many times we couldn't even get to the 20, I was just happy when we actually made it to the 20 yard line. Our return game was so pathetic, I was rooting for 20 yard line, NOT A KO TD, not a long run, just get pass the f'in 20 yard line!!!!
I like giving our offense a boost of better field position. We have an elite offense, but even the best offense, you can't always expect them to go mistake free and march 80 yards every friggin time. We had to count on Rodgers finding Jordy for some ridiculous bombs at least once to counter some of that terrible field position. Give the offense a boost! An occassional long return, and additional starting position would make our offense even more dangerous.
I also think in the grind it out games field position becomes important. In the close grind it out games everything becomes more important and that's where ST's and the return game begins to show its ugly warts or help you shine.
#4 129th Jake Ryan, ILB Michigan
129 picks and a couple days later, Packer fans finally got what they were asking for. Oh the agony of the wait. While Packer nation was going on a frenzied panic for a couple of days, TT patiently waited until the LB they liked was sitting in front of them for the taking. Instead of reaching for one day 1-2, they were able to grab 3 other players, before they finally got the ILB they were looking for. That TT sure has balls of steel to wait that long when you have a desperate need at a particular position.
The fate of the world seems to be sitting on Jake Ryan. Is he the cureall for the holes in our defense???
Personally I just want a guy that hits some people and stop the run and get us to 3rd and long. Let our plethora of DB talent and high priced pass rushers do all the work on 3rd down. I would love it if he can cover the middle on 3rd down and work properly in space. He only has a year under his belt as an inside LB, not sure how good he can do in coverage, that might be asking a lot, especially for a rookie. If the combination of Jake/Clay/Sam/Joe Thomas can just be good enough...we are OK. We don't need elite, we just need good enough. Hopefully Jake plugs in fine, HE CAN'T BE WORSE THAN BRAD JONES.
#5 #147 Brett Hundley QB, UCLA
It's been a while since we picked up a QB. Also interesting the one time we moved in the draft, where there was plenty of talk from fans about moving down, and then desperately begging to move up. Would love to see Brett a couple years from now after a few seasons in the MM QB school. Could be a Matt Hassleback/Aaron Brooks/Mark Brunell scenario of building up asset and trading it off, while also turning into a promising backup. Probably too early in Rodgers career to be the future, but you never know, there's nothing wrong with building up a QB when it's always 1 play away. Either as a long term backup and eventual replacement or as a possible tradeable asset in a few years, it's a good move with the potential he's shown and the value at 147th overall.
#6 206th Aaron Ripkowski FB, Oklahoma
I'm a Kuhn fan ok. I know I sound harsh lately, but father time stops for no one. His knowledge of the offense may rival Rodgers, but he's 33 years old, was never fast or that powerful to begin with, and can't hit the holes that great anymore, and surely can't be better than fresh young legs on STs. I heard some people complaining about drafting a FB this early in the draft, I'm just wondering who are they saving the 6th round pick for? Are they waiting for Tom Brady? At the 6th round I'm game for ANYONE who can make a difference regardless of position.
I love this pick!!! Old school football player that loves to hit and ranked as the best fullback in the draft. Love the idea of giving the offense a fullback that can open holes for Lacy. Lacy doesn't need much, just give him a crease and he blasts through, so the idea of actually getting Lacy a hole and giving him space and seeing what he can do...Oh my. When has Lacy disappointed when he's had room to run???? Like NEVER! How awesome would it be to see Lacy getting to the LOS without a LB already on top of him???
Anything to make our running game even better makes me feel all giggly inside like a 12 year old girl at a One Direction concert. It's all like butterflies and...oh I can't explain it!!
#7 210th Christian Ringo DL, Louisiana - Lafayette
At this point, I'm happy if he can make the roster and be beneficial on STs. I've heard them throw around Mike Daniels name, wow that's a tall order. We definitely could use more help, need more fatties on the line, especially with Raji and Guion on 1 year deals. Small school sleeper according to this:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/29/cff-overview-di-sleepers/
There was also some talk about him being a long snapper...Well Goode is 30 years old and I guess the wear and tear isn't so bad on a LS so maybe Goode is OK for another 3 or 4 years at min., but hey it's not a bad idea to have a young backup in case of emergency...
Overall why not take a shot on a small school but promising prospect, not a bad risk at 210th pick.
#8 213th Kennard Backman, TE, Alabama-Birmingham
Again, just happy if he makes the roster and is beneficial on STs. We are about as weak as it gets on TEs, next to ILB, this is our weakest position, so I'm glad they actually invested something at the TE position, even if it's a lateround pick.
Quarless is Meh, Dick is decent and hopefully getting better, and Justin Perello is an unknown. I bet Kennard and Justin are fighting for the final roster spot, I doubt they go with more than 3 TEs with the 3 QBs and 6 WRs on the roster.
Overall this is a team that doesn't need a lot of starters and only needed some depth, and besides terrible ILB play and one other terrible weakness that prevented them from going to a SuperBowl: Special Teams!!!
An even average special teams this team gets either HFA throughout the playoffs or defeats Seattle. This weekend's draft was all about cleaning up one of the biggest weaknesses on this football team.
They addressed the ILB, the depth, and the STs. Seems like they covered everything they NEEDED yet not in the order of NEED everyone was begging.
So how do you rate this draft (which is ridiculously early to do) or maybe a better way to say it: What is your impression of this 2015 draft (you can include the UFAs)?
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Profound23
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Everyone calls Belichek a genius and some of those same people bash Ted for not drafting an ILB early.
The Pats biggest needs were CB and WR. He didn't even draft a WR and waited until the 7th round to draft a CB, even though Belichek lost both of his starters on defense. He did basically the same thing Ted did, drafted BPA no matter what.
The Pats biggest needs were CB and WR. He didn't even draft a WR and waited until the 7th round to draft a CB, even though Belichek lost both of his starters on defense. He did basically the same thing Ted did, drafted BPA no matter what.
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Buckrageous
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Profound23 wrote:Everyone calls Belichek a genius and some of those same people bash Ted for not drafting an ILB early.
The Pats biggest needs were CB and WR. He didn't even draft a WR and waited until the 7th round to draft a CB, even though Belichek lost both of his starters on defense. He did basically the same thing Ted did, drafted BPA no matter what.
I'm pretty sure they call him a genius because in the last 15 yrs he taken the Pats to 6 Super Bowls and won 4 of them. He also won 2 as a DC. TT has had a great run in GB and continues to put the Packers into the playoffs, however, his record is not that of Belichick.
Also they cur Wilfork so DT was as big a need as WR or CB and they did draft a DT in rd 1.
Personally I don't necessarily question why he didn't draft an ILB earlier this draft as maybe he didn't think much of what was available. I do think it's fair to question why he hasn't fixed the ILB situation one way or the other because it's been a weak link for a number of years. This is a multiple draft/FA failure.
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HKPackFan
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Buckrageous wrote:Profound23 wrote:Everyone calls Belichek a genius and some of those same people bash Ted for not drafting an ILB early.
The Pats biggest needs were CB and WR. He didn't even draft a WR and waited until the 7th round to draft a CB, even though Belichek lost both of his starters on defense. He did basically the same thing Ted did, drafted BPA no matter what.
I'm pretty sure they call him a genius because in the last 15 yrs he taken the Pats to 6 Super Bowls and won 4 of them. He also won 2 as a DC. TT has had a great run in GB and continues to put the Packers into the playoffs, however, his record is not that of Belichick.
Also they cur Wilfork so DT was as big a need as WR or CB and they did draft a DT in rd 1.
Personally I don't necessarily question why he didn't draft an ILB earlier this draft as maybe he didn't think much of what was available. I do think it's fair to question why he hasn't fixed the ILB situation one way or the other because it's been a weak link for a number of years. This is a multiple draft/FA failure.
The day Desmond bishop went down the ILB position has never been fixed. I think he tried to fix it with lattimore and terrel manning draft choices but those didnt pan out and thinking brad jones was part of the solution may have been one of the worst decisions of his tenure. At least its a low mark at any rate.
No gm is perfect, belicheks record makes him the gold standard but TT is at least at silver or higher.
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Ron Swanson
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If there was ever a debate as to whether TT truly always goes BPA, then this draft pretty much settles it. I love this draft class on paper. Maybe not as much as last year's, but I feel that we got more athletic on defense and special teams overall.
Randall and Rollins are guys you can plug in anywhere in the secondary thanks to their versatility. Ryan at worst gives you depth at a position of weakness, but hopefully becomes that starter alongside Barrington that we've been seeking.
Montgomery might be the biggest steal here in all honesty. The guy is electric in the open field and is built like a half back. I'm a little surprised he was there in round 3 actually.
Hundley was an absolute steal in the 5th round. And who knows, if Rodgers retires earlier than we expected in say 4-5 years (he's at least hinted at it), then you have a 25-26 year old Hundley, with years of studying behind the best QB in the game, ready to take the reigns and the GB quarterback cycle continues.
B+
Randall and Rollins are guys you can plug in anywhere in the secondary thanks to their versatility. Ryan at worst gives you depth at a position of weakness, but hopefully becomes that starter alongside Barrington that we've been seeking.
Montgomery might be the biggest steal here in all honesty. The guy is electric in the open field and is built like a half back. I'm a little surprised he was there in round 3 actually.
Hundley was an absolute steal in the 5th round. And who knows, if Rodgers retires earlier than we expected in say 4-5 years (he's at least hinted at it), then you have a 25-26 year old Hundley, with years of studying behind the best QB in the game, ready to take the reigns and the GB quarterback cycle continues.
B+
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SpursNBucks
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HKPackFan wrote:#1 30th Damarious Randall, Arizona State CB/S
Is he a safety or corner or both? r.
#2 62nd Quienten Rollins, CB Miami (OH)
In 2 or 3 years we could be talking about Rollins as one of our best corners in years, this could be a project with a big payoffs. Big investment for such a raw kid, TT really swung for the fences.
#3 94th Ty Montgomery, WR Stanford.
We have had the most pathetic KO return game for the longest time.
#4 129th Jake Ryan, ILB Michigan
129 picks and a couple days later, Packer fans finally got what they were asking for. Oh the agony of the wait.
The fate of the world seems to be sitting on Jake Ryan. Is he the cureall for the holes in our defense???
Personally I just want a guy that hits some people and stop the run and get us to 3rd and long. HE CAN'T BE WORSE THAN BRAD JONES.
#5 #147 Brett Hundley QB, UCLA
Either as a long term backup and eventual replacement or as a possible tradeable asset in a few years, it's a good move with the potential he's shown and the value at 147th overall.
#6 206th Aaron Ripkowski FB, Oklahoma
Old school football player that loves to hit and ranked as the best fullback in the draft. Love the idea of giving the offense a fullback that can open holes for Lacy.
#7 210th Christian Ringo DL, Louisiana - Lafayette
I've heard them throw around Mike Daniels name, wow that's a tall order.
#8 213th Kennard Backman, TE, Alabama-Birmingham
Again, just happy if he makes the roster and is beneficial on STs. W
Overall this is a team that doesn't need a lot of starters and only needed some depth, and besides terrible ILB play and one other terrible weakness that prevented them from going to a SuperBowl: Special Teams!!!
So how do you rate this draft (which is ridiculously early to do) or maybe a better way to say it: What is your impression of this 2015 draft (you can include the UFAs)?
Nice post HK, I trimmed your post down - and agree with pretty much all your analysis. Only thing I differ on is Rollins will be more of a centerfielder S type then a CB and I think he and Shields are two different situations. Good stuff though.
A lot of the national press looks at this Packer Draft and says Ted picks BPA - not exactly - these were needs
Ted's goals were - bring in some DBs early (lost a number of guys), get help on special teams, find a ILB or two who can compete, and upgrade the backup QB position. I think he did that. I think he would have probably taken Kendricks or Perryman in round 2, but they weren't there and the price was too steep to move up in that round.
My analysis:
#1 - Randall - He will be a CB. He has the speed to cover on the outside, ball awareness, and decent coverage. Not a big hitter, because he's not a physical DB. Needs to add a little weight/strength.
#2 - Rollins -Love everything about him, except the 4.58- he hits with authority, great ball skills, and made the transition back to football (was very good in HS) seamlessly. I don't think you can call the MAC Defensive Player of the Year "Raw". Shields was "raw" at the position when he came out, this guy shouldn't have much problem. He is a Safety, and I think he will be a great one. Love the pick. This kid is a natural.
#3 - Monty- Sam Seale loves him. He isn't as shifty as Cobb, but they have one more guy now who is ideal in the slot. The big thing here is they probably got the best return man in college. Field position should improve immediately. I like the pick. Getting a top return guy was a BIG NEED.
#4 Jake Ryan - He played big time football and was a leader at Michigan. Prior to the ACL your probably talking 1st/2nd rounder. They moved him inside after the ACL- still wears a brace. He's an old-school player-not a big hitter. Watch him on tape and you will see similarities to Hawk. After the top 3 or 4 ILBs - I thought he was about as good an option as anyone. I think he has a great chance at starting.
#5 Hundley - Really like the pick- great value. Finally give M3 some real talent to work with.
#6 Ripkowski - Unless he misses assignments in preseason this is the new fan favorite. Like the pick a lot.
#7 Ringo- I was really impressed on tape -motor never stops, Rare to see in a big guy. Is he 270+ or 290+ conflicting, but with his short stature it doesn't matter too much - he looks very thick and strong. Gets good burst to the QB. The level of competition is the big concern.
#8 Backman- Least favorite pick. This was their last "need" -maybe he surprises? Just nothing I saw/read makes me optimistic.
UFA: Dantzler - Jumps out at you on tape. Sure, level of competition is low, but he flashes a lot of athleticism. Runs in the 4.5 area - decent size. Hits with authority. Plays as fast as his 40 time on the field. Comes with no risk - may have hit a HR. So why was he not drafted? He has a police record, and not minor stuff like got caught with a joint. If he stays clean you have a diamond in the rough.
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Profound23
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Buckrageous wrote:Profound23 wrote:Everyone calls Belichek a genius and some of those same people bash Ted for not drafting an ILB early.
The Pats biggest needs were CB and WR. He didn't even draft a WR and waited until the 7th round to draft a CB, even though Belichek lost both of his starters on defense. He did basically the same thing Ted did, drafted BPA no matter what.
I'm pretty sure they call him a genius because in the last 15 yrs he taken the Pats to 6 Super Bowls and won 4 of them. He also won 2 as a DC. TT has had a great run in GB and continues to put the Packers into the playoffs, however, his record is not that of Belichick.
Also they cur Wilfork so DT was as big a need as WR or CB and they did draft a DT in rd 1.
Personally I don't necessarily question why he didn't draft an ILB earlier this draft as maybe he didn't think much of what was available. I do think it's fair to question why he hasn't fixed the ILB situation one way or the other because it's been a weak link for a number of years. This is a multiple draft/FA failure.
Not sure how much you watched the Pats but Wilfork played less and less last season. Tramon was more important to us than Wilfork to them. So if you are talking about that as need, we needed to replace Tramon more than Wilfork.
I am just stating that both GM's took who they thought was the BPA regardless of need. The Pats lost their two starting DBs that played a huge part in them winning a Superbowl. They knew they needed to replace them and waited until the 7th round to draft one? I am not saying Ted is as good as or better than Bill. I am saying he uses the same draft strategy of Bill and it works.
Personally, I wanted to trade down or draft Malcolm Brown. I suggested trading down to the top of the 2nd, picking up other picks and combining them with pick 62 to move up in the 2nd. If he was able to pull this off you are looking at Eddie Goldman and one of the top ILB. However, I understand Ted knows more than me and will at least give it a wait and see approach.
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Profound23
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Re: Post Draft Grades
Ron Swanson wrote:If there was ever a debate as to whether TT truly always goes BPA, then this draft pretty much settles it. I love this draft class on paper. Maybe not as much as last year's, but I feel that we got more athletic on defense and special teams overall.
Randall and Rollins are guys you can plug in anywhere in the secondary thanks to their versatility. Ryan at worst gives you depth at a position of weakness, but hopefully becomes that starter alongside Barrington that we've been seeking.
Montgomery might be the biggest steal here in all honesty. The guy is electric in the open field and is built like a half back. I'm a little surprised he was there in round 3 actually.
Hundley was an absolute steal in the 5th round. And who knows, if Rodgers retires earlier than we expected in say 4-5 years (he's at least hinted at it), then you have a 25-26 year old Hundley, with years of studying behind the best QB in the game, ready to take the reigns and the GB quarterback cycle continues.
B+
I don't doubt any WR or DB we draft because that is our scouts specialty. However it would have been nice to get some size at those positions. I guess if they can cover it doesn't matter as much, but it's nice to have those guys who can stick with Calvin Johnson, Alshon Jeffery types.
Wonder what this draft would have received:
Malcolm Brown
PJ Williams
Paul Dawson
Jake Ryan
Brett Hundley
Ifo Ekpre-Olumu
Taiwan James
Tre McBride
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SpursNBucks
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Re: Post Draft Grades
Profound23 wrote:
Personally, I wanted to trade down or draft Malcolm Brown. I suggested trading down to the top of the 2nd, picking up other picks and combining them with pick 62 to move up in the 2nd. If he was able to pull this off you are looking at Eddie Goldman and one of the top ILB. However, I understand Ted knows more than me and will at least give it a wait and see approach.
A lot of people thought the Packers should trade out of round 1 and add extra picks. This was the popular thought going into the Draft - I would have liked it as well. The problem is you have to have a trade partner- the difference between the end of round 1 through the middle of round 2 was very little if anything. Plus you get a better contract on a 2nd- almost making those picks more valuable. There just wasn't that player that dropped- like you see in most drafts. No need for anyone to move up - nothing that special there, the grades were pretty close end round 1 through middle of round 2.
To touch on the Pats thin CB situation and not drafting till 7th. They have a history of not drafting/developing CBs very well. The other area is not providing enough weapons for Brady. They worked at building the lines. Ironically Ted did the opposite, went heavy at DB and added another weapon to the offense. The Pats have a history of adding players even halfway through the season - that is what you will see again this year. I guarantee you they will make some trades and/or pick up some older vets with contract issues who get let go. They seem to do this every year.
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eagle13
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Re: Post Draft Grades
This does settle the BPA as mostly a farce. CB was as big or bigger need than ILB. 3rd pick was not to get a WR - it was to fill a long standing need for a KR which has been an ignored disaster for years. Now that MM finally has made ST an equal segment - the NEED for a KR was finally addressed. ILB was a desperate NEED. Any pick 5th or later is a crap shoot but DE and TE were needs. If you look at Kuhn's age you could say FB was a need. And Aaron's injury showed getting started developing a backup QB was a need.
WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BPA PICK -
we didn't NEED an OL and for the 1st time since 08 I believe, we didn't take one
we didn't NEED a RB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a S and we did not take one - TT clarified that both DBs will be used as CBs immediately.
we didn't NEED a OLB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a WR and we only got one b/c it happened to be our NEEDED KR's second position
we didn't NEED a NT and we did not take one - even tho MALCOM BROWN was clear BPA at 30
TT even acknowledged that Randall was maybe taken a little higher than rated but if you want a guy - you take him regardless if he is the highest value at that spot.
And last year our most glaring need for 2 years running -S - just happened to be the BPA in the 1st rd?
WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BPA PICK -
we didn't NEED an OL and for the 1st time since 08 I believe, we didn't take one
we didn't NEED a RB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a S and we did not take one - TT clarified that both DBs will be used as CBs immediately.
we didn't NEED a OLB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a WR and we only got one b/c it happened to be our NEEDED KR's second position
we didn't NEED a NT and we did not take one - even tho MALCOM BROWN was clear BPA at 30
TT even acknowledged that Randall was maybe taken a little higher than rated but if you want a guy - you take him regardless if he is the highest value at that spot.
And last year our most glaring need for 2 years running -S - just happened to be the BPA in the 1st rd?
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WeekapaugGroove
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In general this draft seemed more boom or bust than a lot of TTs drafts. Alot of toolsy project types with good upside. Like that they addressed the secondary. Not only did they lose Williams and house but it's no given Hayward and shields will be here much longer. Hayward is a fa next spring and I can't see either side doing an extension. If your Hayward u bet on yourself and hope to play well and get a big deal. Shields is obviously under contract for a while but at a big number so he will need to play better than last year to justify the cap hit after this year.
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SpursNBucks
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eagle13 wrote:This does settle the BPA as mostly a farce. CB was as big or bigger need than ILB. 3rd pick was not to get a WR - it was to fill a long standing need for a KR which has been an ignored disaster for years. Now that MM finally has made ST an equal segment - the NEED for a KR was finally addressed. ILB was a desperate NEED. Any pick 5th or later is a crap shoot but DE and TE were needs. If you look at Kuhn's age you could say FB was a need. And Aaron's injury showed getting started developing a backup QB was a need.
WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BPA PICK -
we didn't NEED an OL and for the 1st time since 08 I believe, we didn't take one
we didn't NEED a RB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a S and we did not take one - TT clarified that both DBs will be used as CBs immediately.
we didn't NEED a OLB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a WR and we only got one b/c it happened to be our NEEDED KR's second position
we didn't NEED a NT and we did not take one - even tho MALCOM BROWN was clear BPA at 30
TT even acknowledged that Randall was maybe taken a little higher than rated but if you want a guy - you take him regardless if he is the highest value at that spot.
And last year our most glaring need for 2 years running -S - just happened to be the BPA in the 1st rd?
Excellent post. Couldn't agree more - I've been saying this for a long time. Kudoos.
As far as Ted saying Rollins is a CB- 4.58 speed? Your going to line him up on the outside against NFL speed receivers? I know Ted has his favorite saying "he's just a good football player, we're not worried" - said the same thing when moved Kampman to OLB - disaster. I guess we'll see. I can see Rollins covering the slot receiver, but if they try and put him outside they may be calling him toast soon.
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RRyder823
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Re: Post Draft Grades
Randall: Didnt love this pick at the time and havent warmed up to it. Besides passing on both Kendricks and Brown, as ive stated prieviously I hate guys who 3 weeks ago were looking like 3-4th round picks but skyrocket up boards to become first rounders.
Rollins: Love this kid. He'll be the best CB out of the two drafted. Not a fan of going CB CB in back to back rounds but least they got a guy who can really ball.
Montgomery: Words cannot express how bad this pick looks to me. Woot we spent a 3rd rounder on a potential KR. Ughh. Bad hands, can't run routes but hey he might find a niche as a 3rd down RB and as a KR. But Lacy really came on as a 3rd down back last year and KR I really dont put a ton of stock into with a touchback being the most likely outcome on a KO. Total reach of a pick.
Ryan: Really good pick for a 4th rounder. I dont love the him.and Barrington pairing when it comes to coverage but he'll help shore up our run D, which was the big issue to begin with, this year. Wont wow athletically but mans a football player
Hundley: Prolly the most intriguing pick in the draft. Physical tools are all there and MM will have the time to show what kind of QB guru he is so in a year or two we hopefully arent completely screwed if Rodgers goes down. Love this pick.
Ripkowski: Not a fan of useing any draft pick, even late 6ths, on a FB but it is what it is. Hopfully can displace Kuhn and give Lacy a roadgrader this year but im thinkin odds are good they'll try and stash him on the PS and give Kuhn one last year to ride off in the sunset.
Ringo: Really solid 6th rounder. Lil bit of a boom or bust prospect in my opinion but in the 6th its good to take that risk. Prolly stashed on the PS for a year and next year we'll see what we got.
Backman: TT trying to strike gold with a TE late in the draft. I actually think he makes the 53 as the #3 TE
It might sound like im down on the draft, especially at the top, but not really. I just dont like 2 picks. Just so happens those were our 1st n 3rd round picks but theres plenty of both potential impact this season in Rollins, Ryan and maybe even Ripkowski and room for growth into impact from the other players in the future namely Hundley.
And I will give TT credit for being great at drafting CBs n WRs so hopefully im wrong on Randle, even though I think hes our #5 CB at best this year, but the Montgomery pick to me is just bad. Just bad
Ill give this draft a B- as of today but could decide its a B tommorow
Rollins: Love this kid. He'll be the best CB out of the two drafted. Not a fan of going CB CB in back to back rounds but least they got a guy who can really ball.
Montgomery: Words cannot express how bad this pick looks to me. Woot we spent a 3rd rounder on a potential KR. Ughh. Bad hands, can't run routes but hey he might find a niche as a 3rd down RB and as a KR. But Lacy really came on as a 3rd down back last year and KR I really dont put a ton of stock into with a touchback being the most likely outcome on a KO. Total reach of a pick.
Ryan: Really good pick for a 4th rounder. I dont love the him.and Barrington pairing when it comes to coverage but he'll help shore up our run D, which was the big issue to begin with, this year. Wont wow athletically but mans a football player
Hundley: Prolly the most intriguing pick in the draft. Physical tools are all there and MM will have the time to show what kind of QB guru he is so in a year or two we hopefully arent completely screwed if Rodgers goes down. Love this pick.
Ripkowski: Not a fan of useing any draft pick, even late 6ths, on a FB but it is what it is. Hopfully can displace Kuhn and give Lacy a roadgrader this year but im thinkin odds are good they'll try and stash him on the PS and give Kuhn one last year to ride off in the sunset.
Ringo: Really solid 6th rounder. Lil bit of a boom or bust prospect in my opinion but in the 6th its good to take that risk. Prolly stashed on the PS for a year and next year we'll see what we got.
Backman: TT trying to strike gold with a TE late in the draft. I actually think he makes the 53 as the #3 TE
It might sound like im down on the draft, especially at the top, but not really. I just dont like 2 picks. Just so happens those were our 1st n 3rd round picks but theres plenty of both potential impact this season in Rollins, Ryan and maybe even Ripkowski and room for growth into impact from the other players in the future namely Hundley.
And I will give TT credit for being great at drafting CBs n WRs so hopefully im wrong on Randle, even though I think hes our #5 CB at best this year, but the Montgomery pick to me is just bad. Just bad
Ill give this draft a B- as of today but could decide its a B tommorow
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RRyder823
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Re: Post Draft Grades
SpursNBucks wrote:eagle13 wrote:This does settle the BPA as mostly a farce. CB was as big or bigger need than ILB. 3rd pick was not to get a WR - it was to fill a long standing need for a KR which has been an ignored disaster for years. Now that MM finally has made ST an equal segment - the NEED for a KR was finally addressed. ILB was a desperate NEED. Any pick 5th or later is a crap shoot but DE and TE were needs. If you look at Kuhn's age you could say FB was a need. And Aaron's injury showed getting started developing a backup QB was a need.
WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BPA PICK -
we didn't NEED an OL and for the 1st time since 08 I believe, we didn't take one
we didn't NEED a RB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a S and we did not take one - TT clarified that both DBs will be used as CBs immediately.
we didn't NEED a OLB and we did not take one
we didn't NEED a WR and we only got one b/c it happened to be our NEEDED KR's second position
we didn't NEED a NT and we did not take one - even tho MALCOM BROWN was clear BPA at 30
TT even acknowledged that Randall was maybe taken a little higher than rated but if you want a guy - you take him regardless if he is the highest value at that spot.
And last year our most glaring need for 2 years running -S - just happened to be the BPA in the 1st rd?
Excellent post. Couldn't agree more - I've been saying this for a long time. Kudoos.
As far as Ted saying Rollins is a CB- 4.58 speed? Your going to line him up on the outside against NFL speed receivers? I know Ted has his favorite saying "he's just a good football player, we're not worried" - said the same thing when moved Kampman to OLB - disaster. I guess we'll see. I can see Rollins covering the slot receiver, but if they try and put him outside they may be calling him toast soon.
Dont fall into the "he only ran a 4.58 "40 trap. He plays faster then what he timed. And if thats not good enough what kind of 40 time you think Tramon could run the last 5 years??? People put WAY to much stock in 40xs. Last year on this board people thought Ha Ha was more of a SS and not a FS, or coverage S if u will, because of his 40 time. Theres speed in shorts and speed in pads
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Profound23
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I am about where you are RRyder. I am unsure about the picks and hope he proves me wrong. Besides 2007, Ted always gets an impact player and 2-3 above average role players.
http://www.packers.com/history/draft-history.html
http://www.packers.com/history/draft-history.html
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SpursNBucks
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RRyder823 wrote:Montgomery: Words cannot express how bad this pick looks to me. Woot we spent a 3rd rounder on a potential KR. Ughh. Bad hands, can't run routes but hey he might find a niche as a 3rd down RB and as a KR. But Lacy really came on as a 3rd down back last year and KR I really dont put a ton of stock into with a touchback being the most likely outcome on a KO. Total reach of a pick.
I think your comments and concerns are fair, but I think you got this pick wrong.
First of all he isn't a "potential" KR - By most accounts he is the BEST KR/PR in this Draft. The Packers have been terrible in this area for years. They finally have someone who "Should be" ELITE! Don't minimize field position, this should help a lot. This is not just a return guy, he should be able to spell Cobb (similar player). When Andrew Luck was there his Freshmen year, some people thought he would go down as the best WR ever to come out of Stanford. The play at QB has not been good there- especially this last year. Your right, he needs to work on concentration and had too many drops.
http://www.packers.com/media-center/vid ... 7d2595d3b7
NOTE: For everyone - if you haven't done it yet, the interviews are up on the Packer page. You don't get to see Sam Seale interviewed much, but he's on there. He's a straight shooter, probably doesn't make Packer brass real happy all the time. He says to about the return game "it will be nice to be starting on the other side of the 40 sometimes instead of at the 20-25 every time as we have been doing the last 3-4 years".
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SpursNBucks
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RRyder823 wrote:
Dont fall into the "he only ran a 4.58 "40 trap. He plays faster then what he timed. And if thats not good enough what kind of 40 time you think Tramon could run the last 5 years??? People put WAY to much stock in 40xs. Last year on this board people thought Ha Ha was more of a SS and not a FS, or coverage S if u will, because of his 40 time. Theres speed in shorts and speed in pads
I get people can put too much into a 40 time, I agree with the general premise of what your saying. This is one of the areas you do have to put some serious stock in the 40 time - he's running around 4.6 and going against players bigger then him running sub 4.4. You can't just throw this guy on an island outside. Clinton- Dix is a "pure" safety and he ran the same time, so your kind of making my case. You can be 4.58 at free safety in Capers D- those people were wrong. If you look on the JS "Scouts Take" area - all the Scouts commented on him being moved to free safety. Now in Capers D, the DB's positions are kind of foggy (not clearly defined), but this guy will be best covering the slot (nickel/Dime), eventually a starting Safety.
Don't pooh pooh 40 times either- what makes Shields as good as he is? He is tiny - where do you think he would be if he ran 4.58? He ran 4.26. It's called having makeup speed because all CBs make mistakes. Casey Hayward ran a 4.43. Hyde ran about 4.53 and he's probably the smartest DB and puts himself in best position to make plays, and his biggest problem is he gets outrun too much. Burnett ran a 4.51. I'm pretty sure 4.58 is the slowest time of any DB on the Packers (tied with Dix).
Time will tell, I love the pick. I just don't think CB is his spot.
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Bernman
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Re: Post Draft Grades
You're skewing all those times.
Casey Hayward ran a 4.57 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Cas ... id=2532861
Micah Hyde ran a 4.56 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mic ... id=2539240
And Rollins ran a 4.57 himself http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ ... id=2552263
Shields' time was at a pro day, and he ran 4.3, which projects to like 4.4's at a combine still. But Shields is near elite in terms of speed. Not everybody can be him.
As a bonus, Tramon's 40-time was 4.57 as well, AND THAT WAS AT A PRO DAY. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB
So Rollins is smack dab in the middle of the recent Packers' cornerbacks in terms of timed speed. You actually provided an argument against yourself.
If Rollins can't play outside it's due to not being long or technical enough. Not because the speed isn't there.
But he could be like Brandon Flowers if he pans out. He's of similar height/length, similarly well-built, and a ballhawk. Flowers only ran marginally faster at the combine (4.55, and then suggested that was a very favorable # by only running a 4.54 at pro day), but Rollins is a little taller (1 inch), heavier (6 lbs), and jumps considerably higher (6.5 inches). I imagine if Rollins wanted to pick up a little extra speed, he could by dropping some weight. He weighs 11 more than Shields.
Casey Hayward ran a 4.57 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Cas ... id=2532861
Micah Hyde ran a 4.56 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mic ... id=2539240
And Rollins ran a 4.57 himself http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ ... id=2552263
Shields' time was at a pro day, and he ran 4.3, which projects to like 4.4's at a combine still. But Shields is near elite in terms of speed. Not everybody can be him.
As a bonus, Tramon's 40-time was 4.57 as well, AND THAT WAS AT A PRO DAY. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB
So Rollins is smack dab in the middle of the recent Packers' cornerbacks in terms of timed speed. You actually provided an argument against yourself.
If Rollins can't play outside it's due to not being long or technical enough. Not because the speed isn't there.
But he could be like Brandon Flowers if he pans out. He's of similar height/length, similarly well-built, and a ballhawk. Flowers only ran marginally faster at the combine (4.55, and then suggested that was a very favorable # by only running a 4.54 at pro day), but Rollins is a little taller (1 inch), heavier (6 lbs), and jumps considerably higher (6.5 inches). I imagine if Rollins wanted to pick up a little extra speed, he could by dropping some weight. He weighs 11 more than Shields.
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SpursNBucks
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Bernman wrote:You're skewing all those times.
Casey Hayward ran a 4.57 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Cas ... id=2532861
Micah Hyde ran a 4.56 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mic ... id=2539240
And Rollins ran a 4.57 himself http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ ... id=2552263
Shields' time was at a pro day, and he ran 4.3, which projects to like 4.4's at a combine still. But Shields is near elite in terms of speed. Not everybody can be him.
As a bonus, Tramon's 40-time was 4.57 as well, AND THAT WAS AT A PRO DAY. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB
So Rollins is smack dab in the middle of the recent Packers' cornerbacks in terms of timed speed. You actually provided an argument against yourself.
If Rollins can't play outside it's due to not being long or technical enough. Not because the speed isn't there.
But he could be like Brandon Flowers if he pans out. He's of similar height/length, similarly well-built, and a ballhawk. Flowers only ran marginally faster at the combine (4.55, and then suggested that was a very favorable # by only running a 4.54 at pro day), but Rollins is a little taller (1 inch), heavier (6 lbs), and jumps considerably higher (6.5 inches). I imagine if Rollins wanted to pick up a little extra speed, he could by dropping some weight. He weighs 11 more than Shields.
In the case of Casey Hayward - they have times all over the place, depending on the site. I see where you got 4.57. Micah we know was kind of a tweener from the start (slower guy) - you can see where lack of speed has hurt him in games. Shields we know is fast- he gets a lot out of that - usually having to take on the stud receiver because of it even though he has height issues.
Your right on Tramon- there is a good article on the comparison between Williams and Rollins.
http://sportsglory.com/nfl/report-packe ... lins/38983
I had went to the Sports exchange Draft site and just taken the middle 40 time. I have to give it to you- you are right the Packers have not have a history of fast CBs - but they make it work. Tramon was probably undrafted in large part because of that 40 time and had at least 2 really good years. The contract that Tramon got shows you the demand on CBs in the NFL - and why Ted doubled up. I hope he can play CB, and hope all those Scouts are wrong. Obviously they were wrong on Tramon.
Good stuff Berman.