Giants Post Game

[WeekapaugGroove]

Good albeit a little ugly win. The front seven has player so much better so far than i thought was possible going into the season.

Cobb played his best game in a long time and adams actually played well. Still need the wrs to get **** open... a could times it was ridiculous how long rodgers had to throw and nothing broke open.

[bizarro]

Takeaways:

1) Aaron Rodgers is not the same God-like NFL an we witnessed for 4 seasons. He's also still a damn good qb. Which leads me to...

2) Our wr and te core is simply not as good as we originally thought. W/ Cook down, and our speedsters inexperienced or untrustworthy, our lack of speed is glaring. Adams was improved. Jordy with some extremely uncharacteristic drops.

3) We left a lot of points on the board BUT we also played extremely sloppy offensively and ST's so did we really leave anything or is this another classic MM team - cue '...we'll look at the tape. This amount of mistakes coming off a bye is troubling...'

4) Schum is worse than Mathsay. How is that even humanly possible?

5) Richard Rodgers had an awful game and he simply is a terrible blocking TE.

6) Our O Line is really really good

7) Even in sloppy games, this team has learned to get key 1st downs late in games. This is an impressive trait.

8) Our return game is nothing

9) Crosby is virtually automatic 40 yards and in

10) this Giants team was fairly unimpressive

11) edit: Until banged up, Lacy ran w a purpose and looked really good

12) edit: what the heck happened to the timing in Our the screen and dump offs?

#2 can't be overstated. We need viable, functional 4th and 5th WRs and a viable functional TE (some teams even have 2 of these).

I'd put both those picks on the receiver, not Rodgers (especially the first one). Wouldn't you?

ETA: All that being said, I think a big part of the issue is Rodgers constantly hunting big plays. I think he could get shorter stuff more if he wanted to. Not always, but a lot more often than he does. This is by design- it's just what we do. The thinking is probably that if Rodgers can't find somebody deep, he can always scramble and either run or buy time until someone gets open. If not, we're (apparently) willing to live with that. It's like taking a sack rather than risking an interception- it's just what we do.

(I am responding via I Phone so pardon the lack of 'spoiler' and the full body of text.)

The first INT I definitely place on Nelson. But, really, it was the botched screen to Starks (bad throw and bad timing between the two) and the false step by Adams during a rushed play to get the 12 man. One am actual TD and the other sure looked like TD. Both botched and then a botched catch. And, the whole sequence, IMHO is the perfect illustration of how erratic this offense has become. The 2nd int looked like a failed communication between both qb and wr. Adams was open for a short lob and Rodgers went to a short dump-off. Jenkins cuts route. Int.

[bizarro]

A weaker NFC helps but to add to my point,I don't think this Packer team will be lighting people up for 40+ with a flashy offense this season like they did in seasons past.I also don't think we'll see a flashy 13-3 type of record.

But what they have now that they didn't have in those seasons is a really good physical defensive front and really good offensive line.As we all know big games and playoff games are won in the trenches.Throw in the fact we still have Aaron Rodgers and we might have something here.I also liked the methodical style offense we saw tonight,it suits them so much better.

I was impressed tonight.

It's still early but the Packers might be one of those 10-6 type teams that can win ugly vs say a 14-2 type when it matters.

Ironically they are starting to kind of remind of those Giants teams that won Super Bowls with Eli.They basically won those with solid fronts and a methodical efficient style of offense.

Grind it out and smash people in the mouth.Flashy doesn't win when it matters.

The thing is though, the passing game struggled often yet again, even though Rodgers repeatedly had tons of time to throw. That's likely not going to happen to that degree again and especially in the playoffs where teams typically have a good defense.

Yea there were to many drops, but it was crazy how often Aaron just stood in the pocket forever looking looking looking for an open receiver before finally either throwing the ball away or trying to force the ball into somebody. That won't happen vs teams with a better pass rushing unit. He also just has to get his accuracy back at least close to where it used to be.

I will grant though that this clearly looks like the best Packers defense in awhile. Get our corners healthy and this defense looks really legit.

I agree,if the Packers are going to win anything of significance this season the offense is going to have to play better and be more consistent.

Hopefully McCarthy (not holding my breath) can figure things out as the season goes along and adapt a little better to his personnel.I think what maybe happened last season and early in this season is that our offense wasn't/isn't as good as it was in say 2014, but McCarthy was still game planning and coaching like they were still that good.

I think the Packers still have the tools to have a pretty damn good offense, but they're not a flashy we might score 50 on you type of offense anymore like they were in the Godgers years.You have to adjust and change your style to better fit your current personnel.

We seen some good things tonight but McCarthy has done a horrible job in that regard.

But like I was saying,the Packers are pretty solid in the trenches and if the offense can get it together and find their niche they might be an interesting team late in the season.

Great post game posts, Rila.

To this end, I thought this was the first intelligent use of a FB draw we've seen in some time. It really works when you only use it 1x/3-4 games. What a run by Rip. And, I felt our two best plays of the night from an execution standpoint were the two playactions we saw in the first half. Brilliant ballfakes and great disguise all around. If we could get our screen game functional (!!), we'd have some very useable wrinkles to the offense.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Its going to be an interesting week for roster moves.

Pennell will be put on the roster and i assume price loses his spot and they try to bring him back to the ps.

Goodman is also eligible to come back. I guess they might just cut him but with the injuries at corner and the fact hes been in the system for 3 years now they might want to give him a look and if i remember correctly he was decent on special teams last year. Interesting decision of whow gets cut. If bango is hurt they might just ir him or maybe they drop whoever they like least of hawkins or williams.

If lacy is hurt then they need to add another rb. Maybe abby loses his job since it appears hes the last guy in the wr group.

And lastly i have to assume they will look at getting a new punter this dude isnt cutting it.

[crkone]

The Packers offense looked competent when running their scripted plays in the first series. Used all the skilled position players besides Abby and ran multiple different looks. MM really needs to open the playbook for the whole game.
I'm guessing it'll be Price and Hawkins as the guys out for Pennel and Goodson. It's a no brainer for Pennel and the kick coverage team has been awful this season and Goodson is a core teamer. I think Burnett was playing dime CB yesterday over Hawkins too.

EDIT: Sometimes new isn't better as is the case with Schum. I'm glad TT didn't listen to the fans when they wanted to get rid of Crosby.

[Ron Swanson]

Never thought I'd say it, but our biggest obstacle right now seems to be.........Rodgers. We won almost in spite of him yesterday. This defense is amazing. If the offense can start to string together a couple games and consistently move the football, this is easily a Super Bowl team with how dominant our front 7 looks. The Lacy injury obviously hurt us in the 2nd half. Secondary just needs to get healthy asap.

[Mags FTW]

McCarthy needs to start scripting the 2nd half of games, because we flat out suck. Only 1 touchdown so far.

[LUKE23]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo
The Packers have allowed 171 rushing yards this season, the 2nd-fewest through 4 games in the Super Bowl era (1995 49ers 157)

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke
Only 3-4 OLBs that have been more productive on 40+ pass rushes than Fackrell are Von Miller, Cornellius Carradine, John Simon + Nick Perry

[Ron Swanson]

You might as well just pay Nick Perry now. Every game that goes by, his price raises a couple million.

[emunney]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo
The Packers have allowed 171 rushing yards this season, the 2nd-fewest through 4 games in the Super Bowl era (1995 49ers 157)

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke
Only 3-4 OLBs that have been more productive on 40+ pass rushes than Fackrell are Von Miller, Cornellius Carradine, John Simon + Nick Perry

Nice. I was just going to say that I wasn't watching super closely last night but 51 looked like a real player.

[LUKE23]

Packers are #1 in rushing YPA allowed and #5 in sacks percentage. Clean up the big plays in the secondary (28th in yards per pass attempt) and the D has very few holes.

Seems like we have dropped a ton of INT this year.

[thomchatt3rton]

Spoiler:

Takeaways:

1) Aaron Rodgers is not the same God-like NFL an we witnessed for 4 seasons. He's also still a damn good qb. Which leads me to...

2) Our wr and te core is simply not as good as we originally thought. W/ Cook down, and our speedsters inexperienced or untrustworthy, our lack of speed is glaring. Adams was improved. Jordy with some extremely uncharacteristic drops.

3) We left a lot of points on the board BUT we also played extremely sloppy offensively and ST's so did we really leave anything or is this another classic MM team - cue '...we'll look at the tape. This amount of mistakes coming off a bye is troubling...'

4) Schum is worse than Mathsay. How is that even humanly possible?

5) Richard Rodgers had an awful game and he simply is a terrible blocking TE.

6) Our O Line is really really good

7) Even in sloppy games, this team has learned to get key 1st downs late in games. This is an impressive trait.

8) Our return game is nothing

9) Crosby is virtually automatic 40 yards and in

10) this Giants team was fairly unimpressive

11) edit: Until banged up, Lacy ran w a purpose and looked really good

12) edit: what the heck happened to the timing in Our the screen and dump offs?

#2 can't be overstated. We need viable, functional 4th and 5th WRs and a viable functional TE (some teams even have 2 of these).

I'd put both those picks on the receiver, not Rodgers (especially the first one). Wouldn't you?

ETA: All that being said, I think a big part of the issue is Rodgers constantly hunting big plays. I think he could get shorter stuff more if he wanted to. Not always, but a lot more often than he does. This is by design- it's just what we do. The thinking is probably that if Rodgers can't find somebody deep, he can always scramble and either run or buy time until someone gets open. If not, we're (apparently) willing to live with that. It's like taking a sack rather than risking an interception- it's just what we do.

(I am responding via I Phone so pardon the lack of 'spoiler' and the full body of text.)

The first INT I definitely place on Nelson. But, really, it was the botched screen to Starks (bad throw and bad timing between the two) and the false step by Adams during a rushed play to get the 12 man. One am actual TD and the other sure looked like TD. Both botched and then a botched catch. And, the whole sequence, IMHO is the perfect illustration of how erratic this offense has become. The 2nd int looked like a failed communication between both qb and wr. Adams was open for a short lob and Rodgers went to a short dump-off. Jenkins cuts route. Int.

Rewatching the 2nd INT, I can't put it on Adams. Initially, it looked to me like Jenkins fought through Adams' body and out-muscled him for position and the pick. That kinda did happen, but it was not a good pass, and Jenkins just sort of knifed in.

Since Rodgers was freelancing at that point, it's up to him to put the ball in a good spot. I thought Adams could have fought a bit more to keep between the DB and the ball, but itd be unfair to blame him.

[humanrefutation]

So, I get that it's great that Rodgers can be protected for 5..6...7...8 seconds before he has to release the ball. Props to the offensive line.

But I can barely remember any throws yesterday where it didn't look like Rodgers had to go through his entire progression more than once before making a decision.

That is not good. I know our receivers don't always get separation on first look, but I find it hard to believe that we're so much worse than every other team in the league in that regard.

[WeekapaugGroove]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo
The Packers have allowed 171 rushing yards this season, the 2nd-fewest through 4 games in the Super Bowl era (1995 49ers 157)

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke
Only 3-4 OLBs that have been more productive on 40+ pass rushes than Fackrell are Von Miller, Cornellius Carradine, John Simon + Nick Perry

Nice. I was just going to say that I wasn't watching super closely last night but 51 looked like a real player.

Good thing wiscoking isnt the gm or fackrell would have been released in the final cuts

[Kerb Hohl]

McCarthy needs to start scripting the 2nd half of games, because we flat out suck. Only 1 touchdown so far.

Rodgers was terrible in the 2nd half last night, the playcalling was great/fine in the 2nd half of the Detroit game and drops/penalties derailed it. Context.

[raysbookclub]

Our D looks impressive, albeit against a struggling Giants team last night. Lot of pressure rushing 4. Even rushing 3 late in the game on a 3rd and long, they forced the QB to scramble for a 2 yard gain.

Offense is a mystery. Are our skill guys just not that good? Is Rodgers regressing somehow? We shouldn't expect them to be like 2010-2012, when they had Jennings-Driver-Jones-Nelson (that's an incredible top four) plus Finley (!!). But they thought 7 WRs were good enough to make the roster, so figure the talent is sufficient. Would love to see less 3-and-outs and it not look like such a struggle to move the ball at times.

ST punting, what is going on out there. Zook surely is on the hot seat. Schum's two 30-yard punts could have lost the game. What's Janis doing running down the sideline that long on the punt?

[thomchatt3rton]

The Packers offense looked competent when running their scripted plays in the first series. Used all the skilled position players besides Abby and ran multiple different looks. MM really needs to open the playbook for the whole game.
I'm guessing it'll be Price and Hawkins as the guys out for Pennel and Goodson. It's a no brainer for Pennel and the kick coverage team has been awful this season and Goodson is a core teamer. I think Burnett was playing dime CB yesterday over Hawkins too.

EDIT: Sometimes new isn't better as is the case with Schum. I'm glad TT didn't listen to the fans when they wanted to get rid of Crosby.

This is something I've alluded to in general (in this thread and in others) and was going to mention specifically until I saw that you've put it better here.
On the one hand, if there's no passrush to speak of, you can't blame Rodgers for sitting back and waiting and waiting for something 15+ yards downfield, but it's definitely been a problem in other games.

I think it's a philosophical tendency of the team in general, partly, but the extent to which it's embraced by Rodgers is meaningful.
I imagine the idea is this: if Rodgers can't find somebody open, he can either buy time with his feet until he can, or run for a first down. If he can't, MM and Arodg are willing to live with the consequences. It's probably similar to the previous tendency to prefer taking sacks to throwing the ball away or even running the small risk of an INT.

I wonder also if this tendency might help explain our struggles in the redzone. It seems like they operate in the RZ exactly the same way they operate at anywhere else on the field, but with less room for WRs to work.

[crkone]

So, I get that it's great that Rodgers can be protected for 5..6...7...8 seconds before he has to release the ball. Props to the offensive line.

But I can barely remember any throws yesterday where it didn't look like Rodgers had to go through his entire progression more than once before making a decision.

That is not good. I know our receivers don't always get separation on first look, but I find it hard to believe that we're so much worse than every other team in the league in that regard.

It's either Rodgers or the WRs. Either Rodgers isn't seeing/trusting guys who are open (or making terrible throws) or WRs aren't getting open. If it's both, then we have to default to getting WRs open at all cost because we aren't benching Rodgers. It looks like it is both but look what happened in the first series. We run multiple personnel/formations out there and easily carve the Giants defense. But again we had bad drops from Starks and Nelson, and Rodgers threw two picks among other bad passes. I think another high draft pick goes to getting another WR who hopefully has speed this time.

[Ron Swanson]

Starks has always filled in admirably whenever Lacy's been nicked up or out of shape, but that contract they gave him isn't looking so good right now. Almost coughed the ball up on a crucial drive and just looks a step slow out there. Who is even our 3rd RB anymore?

[thomchatt3rton]

I feel pretty sure that Rodgers is overlooking open receivers on shorter routes because he's looking for something more "explosive" downfield- that's not always the problem, but I'm pretty sure it happens. I'd feel safe betting that there are 3-5 complete-able shorter passes every game that we leave on the table.

The problem may be that those passes aren't there when we need them, they're only there when Rodgers has a legit shot at something longer (like a on a boot or play action when Rodgers isn't pressured).