What fixes the Packers?

[GBPackers47]

After a brutal day yesterday, I want to open a discussion on what everything thinks fixes the Packers. Let's try our best to limit the stuff that frustrates the S*** out of us and rather give specific adjustments you would like seen done.

For example, if you think McCarthy is the problem, do you fire him? If so, who do you want to replace him that you think will be a difference maker for this team?

Let's not just say "Rodgers needs to play better." That's a no brainer, but unfortunately something only Rodgers can fix.

For me:

Offensively:

1. If McCarthy is to stay, they have to run more 4 and 5 WR sets. They actually ran a hurry up 5 WR set towards the end of the game that appeared to be working, only until Rodgers fumbled the ball on a designed (maybe?) QB sneak. I don't think I've seen the Packers run a designed QB sneak in my entire lifetime of watching them, but hey, why not start now

2. Quick Plays: After 5 games, I think it's fair to say our offensive line is the strongest part of this team. The line gives Rodgers so much time (but unfortunately we can't seem to get anyone open down the field?). I'd like to see us run a few plays with Lacy or Mont in the backfield originally set for pass protection then run out on a quick pass for a decent gain. If our receivers can't get open on perfect pass protection, then adjust the game plan and make them respect the short dump passes. Eventually defenses will have to start playing the short dump offs and it should open up play down the field. Seems like we just keep trying the same things over and over again, hoping it will work only to build this false sense of reality that our offense is a "big play" offense.

Defensively:

1. I'm not as upset about Elliot going for 150+ yesterday. In reality, their running offense is just better than our run defense, and no one should be surprised there. I do still think the run defense is legit and will continue to play at a high level. The problem I have with our defense overall is the lack of aggression they play with on a consistent level. There are two guys that always appear to have their motor running the entire game and that's Nick Perry and Mike Daniels (I'll throw Clay in there as well because he usually brings a high motor but just isn't performing on a stats level so far). The rest of our team appears to show up for a few plays then kinda disappear. If you watch top tier defenses play, they always swarm the ball, no matter where it is. If the opponent catches the ball in the middle of the field, it's almost assumed they are going to rip off a decent gain. I always get frustrated with Seattle (mainly because they've had the Packers number for a while), but if you watch film from when their defense was hands down the best in the league, it always looked like they played with 13 or 14 guys because every single man on the field played with lights out aggression. Despite a great run defense up to this point, I just don't see that type of play style coming from Green Bay.

2. I didn't play football growing up, so my understanding of schemes and personal comes solely from me watching the game for so long, but can someone tell me why we don't jam receivers at the line? I'm specifically talking about Randall. It seems like every time he's on the field, he plays 10 yards off the line, let's his receiver get a full head of steam then get's beat. Why not jam receivers at the line and try to disrupt their rhythm?

[HKPackFan]

2. I didn't play football growing up, so my understanding of schemes and personal comes solely from me watching the game for so long, but can someone tell me why we don't jam receivers at the line? I'm specifically talking about Randall. It seems like every time he's on the field, he plays 10 yards off the line, let's his receiver get a full head of steam then get's beat. Why not jam receivers at the line and try to disrupt their rhythm?



I loved Al Harris and his jamming technique and aggressive style. The problem is you need to be a tough sob and can't whiff otherwise you fall on your butt like gunter and let a wr score in a few seconds.

[GBPackers47]

2. I didn't play football growing up, so my understanding of schemes and personal comes solely from me watching the game for so long, but can someone tell me why we don't jam receivers at the line? I'm specifically talking about Randall. It seems like every time he's on the field, he plays 10 yards off the line, let's his receiver get a full head of steam then get's beat. Why not jam receivers at the line and try to disrupt their rhythm?



I loved Al Harris and his jamming technique and aggressive style. The problem is you need to be a tough sob and can't whiff otherwise you fall on your butt like gunter and let a wr score in a few seconds.

I agree with that point, but on that Gunter play, did he really try to jam at the line? To me, it looked like he was playing off the line a bit and tried to recover, which ultimately led him to fall down. The problem there is the receiver already had a few yards to pick up his speed and obviously could outrun a guy that is already positioned the wrong way to keep up.

I don't think this team has an aggressive CB like Al Harris was, but I would rather at least try to jam a little more, add an extra safety for help and rely on the pure talents of Perry, Clay and Daniels to provide pressure. Hell, the defenses we're playing barely rush more than 4 and it seems like secondaries can stop us. No reason why we can't at least attempt it.

[HKPackFan]

2. I didn't play football growing up, so my understanding of schemes and personal comes solely from me watching the game for so long, but can someone tell me why we don't jam receivers at the line? I'm specifically talking about Randall. It seems like every time he's on the field, he plays 10 yards off the line, let's his receiver get a full head of steam then get's beat. Why not jam receivers at the line and try to disrupt their rhythm?



I loved Al Harris and his jamming technique and aggressive style. The problem is you need to be a tough sob and can't whiff otherwise you fall on your butt like gunter and let a wr score in a few seconds.

I agree with that point, but on that Gunter play, did he really try to jam at the line? To me, it looked like he was playing off the line a bit and tried to recover, which ultimately led him to fall down. The problem there is the receiver already had a few yards to pick up his speed and obviously could outrun a guy that is already positioned the wrong way to keep up.

I don't think this team has an aggressive CB like Al Harris was, but I would rather at least try to jam a little more, add an extra safety for help and rely on the pure talents of Perry, Clay and Daniels to provide pressure. Hell, the defenses we're playing barely rush more than 4 and it seems like secondaries can stop us. No reason why we can't at least attempt it.

I didn't mean to say that's what happened to gunter just that's the risk of whiffing on a jam. Although gunter does have the long arms for bump in run coverage maybe he should have tried a jam instead. Lol.

[GBPackers47]

2. I didn't play football growing up, so my understanding of schemes and personal comes solely from me watching the game for so long, but can someone tell me why we don't jam receivers at the line? I'm specifically talking about Randall. It seems like every time he's on the field, he plays 10 yards off the line, let's his receiver get a full head of steam then get's beat. Why not jam receivers at the line and try to disrupt their rhythm?



I loved Al Harris and his jamming technique and aggressive style. The problem is you need to be a tough sob and can't whiff otherwise you fall on your butt like gunter and let a wr score in a few seconds.

I agree with that point, but on that Gunter play, did he really try to jam at the line? To me, it looked like he was playing off the line a bit and tried to recover, which ultimately led him to fall down. The problem there is the receiver already had a few yards to pick up his speed and obviously could outrun a guy that is already positioned the wrong way to keep up.

I don't think this team has an aggressive CB like Al Harris was, but I would rather at least try to jam a little more, add an extra safety for help and rely on the pure talents of Perry, Clay and Daniels to provide pressure. Hell, the defenses we're playing barely rush more than 4 and it seems like secondaries can stop us. No reason why we can't at least attempt it.

I didn't mean to say that's what happened to gunter just that's the risk of whiffing on a jam. Although gunter does have the long arms for bump in run coverage maybe he should have tried a jam instead. Lol.

He definitely doesn't have the speed to play otherwise. I hate being one of those people that are convinced I could do TT or McCarthy's jobs better than them, but they have to see this stuff too right? The fact that we don't make adjustments is what makes generic dudes like me have this false sense that we could do their jobs better.

[Rockmaninoff]

Limiting turnovers.

A good vertical TE would make a difference. Quality rather than quantity at WR.

Rodgers doing more tempo based stuff, but that's never been his strength.

[Ron Swanson]

Benching Aaron Rodgers.

[WeekapaugGroove]

This isnt a fix but more of an observation but it seems like the packer players take turns having the worst games of their lives this season. Rollins week 1, Randle against the vikes, gunter yesterday, rodgers yesterday. I dont know if its just random or a case where the coaching staff needs identify a guy is struggling quicker and try to solve it before it just seems to snow ball.

[jakecronus8]

Good QB play fixes the Packers. Whether that's Aaron remembering how to be Aaron or someone else taking over and playing well n

[BUCKnation]

Rodgers. There have been a lot more cases of WRs at least getting open this year but Rodgers has been seemingly missing more than he gets.

Defensively, if we get healthy and our corners stop falling down we should be good.

[raysbookclub]

Rodgers playing like an all-pro.

The reason the Packers have been a contender for the last 6 years straight is Rodgers. Including years our RBs were Brandon Jackson and Wynn. Including years our Def was pretty bad.

If Rodgers isn't playing like an all-pro, if he's playing like an average or below-average quarterback, then we're a .500 team or perhaps a couple games below that. Even if our defense is finally playing like a defense that the team has heavily invested in through the draft. Basically we're the Bills or maybe the Bengals without Rodgers playing great. Wish we were like the Seahawks of a few years ago or Broncos last year, but our defense isn't quite that. Not yet at least. Maybe when our CBs get back and the ILBs have more time to develop.

[JEIS]

More screen plays... a lot more hurry up offensive... opens the run game.

[thomchatt3rton]

I cant pretend I know how to diagnose and repair the whirling vortex of overlapping dysfunction that exists where MMs scheme meets Rodgers on-field play.

What I do feel sure about is that this offense (and rodgers) would be better if we had:

1) One more high-quality WR. Preferably a speed/deepthreat type. Imagine a prime Greg Jennings type on this team, and what that would do to open things up for everyone else. Doesn't have to be a top-tier WR- just a good deepthreat with some speed opposite Jordy who understands our offense and defenses have to respect.

2) A receiving threat at TE and a 2nd, average and reliable TE (maybe like a healthy Cook and then a Crabtree-level guy). Not having a viable threat at TE for Ds to account for contributes to the O being so 1-dimensional.
In the first half vs DET, just having Cook and be able to do simple things like motion him out in advantageous situations seemed to make a big difference. He helps even when doesn't catch a pass.

3). Enough consistency and reps with the above-mentioned players to allow the scheme to develop and coalesce around this improved receiving corps. Last season we had so many guys coming in and out with injuries, developing some consistency and chemistry was impossible.

Again, I dont think this is a cure-all. its just one thing I feel sure can be cleanly diagnosed and relatively easy to fix compared to some of the potentially deeper problems.

Right now we have basically 2.5 good wide receivers and then after that it's right off the edge of the cliff to zero production- nothing from other WRs and nothing from the TE spot. I think people, somehow, underrate what a problem that is.

ETA I also think we'd be served well by abandoning our "big play offense" philosophy, and going more towards the way things were Favres last year here- short passes, move the chains. Whenever we play like that, it works. I suppose MM would consider that to be a waste of Rodgers' mobility. I think Rodgers scrambling and running ability is why we have this big play identity- MM figures if nobody is open, Rodgers can scramble until someone is, or even just run for the first down, so hey, lets send everybody out on long routes.

[Mags FTW]

1) Rodgers playing well. Doesn't even need to be Godgers, just "good".

2) Scheme to get people open rather than just telling the WRs to beat their man.

3) More stuff out of the backfield like we saw with Montgomery yesterday, and screens.

4) Run Lacy out of the I with Rip as his lead blocker.

5) Throw in an exotic every once in awhile. I'd even settle for a jet sweep with Monty or Davis.

[HKPackFan]

1) Rodgers playing well. Doesn't even need to be Godgers, just "good".

2) Scheme to get people open rather than just telling the WRs to beat their man.

3) More stuff out of the backfield like we saw with Montgomery yesterday, and screens.

4) Run Lacy out of the I with Rip as his lead blocker.

5) Throw in an exotic every once in awhile. I'd even settle for a jet sweep with Monty or Davis.

Lacy had 40+ catches in 2014. What happened to the dump off? We saw some of that with Ty and it worked!! Lacy with a decent pass where he can quickly go north with a head of steam in some open space, leap over a DB or LB like Will Henderson used to do back in the day.

[KidA24]

1) Rodgers playing well. Doesn't even need to be Godgers, just "good".

2) Scheme to get people open rather than just telling the WRs to beat their man.

3) More stuff out of the backfield like we saw with Montgomery yesterday, and screens.

4) Run Lacy out of the I with Rip as his lead blocker.

5) Throw in an exotic every once in awhile. I'd even settle for a jet sweep with Monty or Davis.

Lacy had 40+ catches in 2014. What happened to the dump off? We saw some of that with Ty and it worked!! Lacy with a decent pass where he can quickly go north with a head of steam in some open space, leap over a DB or LB like Will Henderson used to do back in the day.

Its been there. Rodgers has missed the throws... Or simply not taken them.
He threw two bad passes to Starks last week.

[GBPackers47]

ETA I also think we'd be served well by abandoning our "big play offense" philosophy, and going more towards the way things were Favres last year here- short passes, move the chains. Whenever we play like that, it works. I suppose MM would consider that to be a waste of Rodgers' mobility. I think Rodgers scrambling and running ability is why we have this big play identity- MM figures if nobody is open, Rodgers can scramble until someone is, or even just run for the first down, so hey, lets send everybody out on long routes.

This is what is so mind boggling to me though. Even the casual Packer fan can tell you this isn't working. Why does MM see something completely different?

Rodgers obviously needs to play at a higher level, but I don't think that is what "fixes" this because the issue, IMO, is so much deeper than that. From a pure talent standpoint, Rodgers is by far our best players (despite what we've seen lately). If Rodgers playing at a high level is what we have to rely on to succeed, then there is a huge problem with our overall coaching and schemes because as soon as he has "human" type games (which is what we're seeing now) we struggle to win.

For the sake of the argument, if Rodgers was having an MVP season right now and we were 5-0, what would happen to this team if he was injured? If we truly rely on Rodgers to win us games, then we are absolutely screwed when he gets injured or has an average season. I'm a huge Aaron Rodgers fan, but we can't rely on a single player to carry us because that won't last forever.

[ReasonablySober]

This is probably as good a breakdown as we'll read.

[WRau1]

I'm pretty good at Madden, I think I should take over the franchise.

[GBPackers47]

There's a lot of "Fire McCarthy" talk on this thread (myself included), but as someone who doesn't follow other coaches and schemes too closely, who are some top HCs and OCs that would be a good fit here should McCarthy get canned? My initial thoughts are someone like Tom Coughlin, whose no-nonsense mentality might make this team play with a little more fire or someone like Josh McDaniels whose been under Belicheck for a while now.

Those two suggestions aren't based on play calling and scheme at all because I don't know too much about them in that regard, but what do other people think?