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Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup

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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#161 » by ibanezjp » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:32 am

FAH1223 wrote:
ibanezjp wrote:I'm gonna try my best not to get mad this offseason hoping for some changes when they will most surely do nothing. My guess is they think Randall and Rollins will have a similar jump Adams made this year when he wasn't hampered by injuries all year. I have small hope this is the case because they like Davante we're pretty decent in their rookie years. Still just can't imagine Randall really covering anybody. I mean he looked worse than Terrell Buckley out there during this season. Like somebody mentioned last year it seems like Shields was the glue that held it together and allowed Rollins and Randall to play to their strengths much like how our WR core went to crap last year when Jordy went down.

Another point about the defense and injuries. Every year we don't reach the Super Bowl just underscores how much an opportunity we wasted in 2014. Other than the calf that was the healthiest Packers team since 2007 and they had at least an average defense which would've got it done this year. Even the 2015 defense (which was probably our best since 2010) would've kept us in that game yesterday.


Losing Shields was devastating. It can't be overstated enough.

We are going to have to get a CB this offseason. Maybe check the trade market. It's a dire situation.

Randall might even be better equipped to play a FS/CB hybrid role ala Woodson.

Cook, Perry, and Lang should be the priorities. I'd like Hyde back for depth. But we need speed in the secondary.


I just can't see Ted getting any FA other than second tier cheap guys. He definitely won't trade. To get somebody who'd make a difference we'd have to give up somebody significant. I don't see a position of depth that we can afford to let someone go.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review 

Post#162 » by rilamann » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:14 am

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To add to that,Tom Brady's defenses have given up 30 or more points in the playoffs only 3 times.The most points the Patriots have given up in the playoffs since 2001 was 38 when they lost the 2006 AFC Championship 38-34 to the Colts.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#163 » by humanrefutation » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:31 am

I remember how terrible the defense looked when we gave up 52 to Arizona in 2010. They came back the following season and played really well.

I think Ha Ha, Burnett, Daniels, and Clark look like keepers. Perry is worth a moderate extension. Hyde is fine. Gunter is a decent 4th corner. Martinez, Ryan, and Thomas are meh, with Martinez being the biggest disappointment for me because I expected him to be a more effective cover linebacker.

Randall and Rollins are TBD for me - injuries clearly impacted them, but I'm not convinced that they're able to start in this league. Randall had a reputation for being an an excellent cover corner/safety when he was in college, so maybe he's best served as a hybrid player ala Hyde. Rollins has shown some athleticism and big play ability in the past. So, I'm not giving up on them yet.

Clay needs to get healthy. Peppers might retire.

But I'd be fine with them literally targeting any defensive position except safety.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#164 » by wichmae » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:17 am

humanrefutation wrote:I remember how terrible the defense looked when we gave up 52 to Arizona in 2010. They came back the following season and played really well.

I think Ha Ha, Burnett, Daniels, and Clark look like keepers. Perry is worth a moderate extension. Hyde is fine. Gunter is a decent 4th corner. Martinez, Ryan, and Thomas are meh, with Martinez being the biggest disappointment for me because I expected him to be a more effective cover linebacker.

Randall and Rollins are TBD for me - injuries clearly impacted them, but I'm not convinced that they're able to start in this league. Randall had a reputation for being an an excellent cover corner/safety when he was in college, so maybe he's best served as a hybrid player ala Hyde. Rollins has shown some athleticism and big play ability in the past. So, I'm not giving up on them yet.

Clay needs to get healthy. Peppers might retire.

But I'd be fine with them literally targeting any defensive position except safety.

Hyde is a FA to be just FYI
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#165 » by Jollay » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:50 am

ibanezjp wrote:I just can't see Ted getting any FA other than second tier cheap guys. He definitely won't trade. To get somebody who'd make a difference we'd have to give up somebody significant. I don't see a position of depth that we can afford to let someone go.


I agree. I think the likely signing is a #2 vet corner who adds at least some stability/durability. Our real success will still turn on if Rollins, Randall, Gunter, Hawkins or some combo of most improve ,though.

It's a shame we won't trade but I also agree we probably won't. Some of these rebuilding teams have some good stuff available. Trade the next Fackrell or Martinez for any just average veteran defensive starter at LB or corner? Yes, please. You just don't want to do it too often, obviously.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#166 » by El Duderino » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:29 am

wichmae wrote:We have some big FA decisions coming up and have some big decisions to make on Shields, and Clay. Perry is a FA, Tretter, Lang, Lacy, Hyde, and Cook. Looking at the upcoming FA list ideally we should be looking at going after Bouye or Gilmore. Theres also some intriguing ILB guys too. Have to absolutely fix this defense. Its a mess.


Shields will be interesting if say he wanted to keep playing because i wonder if the team would even let him?

Tretter and Lang will be also if the team thinks Tretter can handle playing guard. Tretter is going to want to start, so i can't see him resigning if Lang is brought back and Lang has more wear and tear on him.

Cook has to be resigned given we have garbage at TE besides him and draft picks are badly needed elsewhere.

Pass on Lacy.

Perry i have no idea how Ted handles him.

Do they ask Clay to take a pay cut? I can't see waiving him given the dearth of young pass rushers on the roster, even though he's clearly in decline.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#167 » by ibanezjp » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:38 am

humanrefutation wrote:I remember how terrible the defense looked when we gave up 52 to Arizona in 2010. They came back the following season and played really well.

I think Ha Ha, Burnett, Daniels, and Clark look like keepers. Perry is worth a moderate extension. Hyde is fine. Gunter is a decent 4th corner. Martinez, Ryan, and Thomas are meh, with Martinez being the biggest disappointment for me because I expected him to be a more effective cover linebacker.

Randall and Rollins are TBD for me - injuries clearly impacted them, but I'm not convinced that they're able to start in this league. Randall had a reputation for being an an excellent cover corner/safety when he was in college, so maybe he's best served as a hybrid player ala Hyde. Rollins has shown some athleticism and big play ability in the past. So, I'm not giving up on them yet.

Clay needs to get healthy. Peppers might retire.

But I'd be fine with them literally targeting any defensive position except safety.


I feel like if Randall could play the Casey Hayward role of 2012 where he's just a roaming nickelback looking to pick it off or use his speed to knock balls down he could flourish. I think asking him to be a cover corner plays to his weaknesses. I just wish we could've kept House but no way he's worth what the Jags paid him. It sucks they're stupid teams that will ridiculously overpay and price you out of your own guys. Example Greg Jennings. If he took the reasonable offer Ted first gave him he'd probably still be in the league. Instead he got paid, and did jack crap in Min and Mia. I know you gotta get the money but man so many stupid teams. I know we all want Ted to dip into free agency and I do too, but thank God he hasn't done things like some of these teams do that just kill your team.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#168 » by wichmae » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:04 am

El Duderino wrote:
wichmae wrote:We have some big FA decisions coming up and have some big decisions to make on Shields, and Clay. Perry is a FA, Tretter, Lang, Lacy, Hyde, and Cook. Looking at the upcoming FA list ideally we should be looking at going after Bouye or Gilmore. Theres also some intriguing ILB guys too. Have to absolutely fix this defense. Its a mess.


Shields will be interesting if say he wanted to keep playing because i wonder if the team would even let him?

Tretter and Lang will be also if the team thinks Tretter can handle playing guard. Tretter is going to want to start, so i can't see him resigning if Lang is brought back and Lang has more wear and tear on him.

Cook has to be resigned given we have garbage at TE besides him and draft picks are badly needed elsewhere.

Pass on Lacy.

Perry i have no idea how Ted handles him.

Do they ask Clay to take a pay cut? I can't see waiving him given the dearth of young pass rushers on the roster, even though he's clearly in decline.


My take
Julius Peppers OLB 37 - See if he'll come back at a severe discount. Let him finish here.
T.J. Lang G 29 - Depends on the injury. If he did break his foot you have leverage. He may resign discounted to stay here too.
Nick Perry OLB 26 - I think he's going to get over paid somewhere. Probably was his last year here
Jared Cook TE 29 - Aaron loves him and is the top priority to retain
Datone Jones OLB 26 - Massive bust. Let him walk
Brett Goode LS 32 - A lot to be said from one of the ST staples. I always see him in on tackles on ST. One year deal pls.
Eddie Lacy RB 26 - Give him a make or break incentive deal. One and one or just a one year idc.
Christine Michael RB 26 - Unless he's really cheap he's replaceable
Don Barclay RT 27 GB - Please god let him leak pas rushers elsewhere
J.C. Tretter C 25 GB - Not sure he's big enough to take over for Lang and ma get a sneaky good deal elsewhere. SEA?
Micah Hyde SS 26 GB - Jekyl and Hyde. Another guy who might get quite the over pay. Im ok with letting him go.


We should have 35+ mil in space without cuts or re-works. Absolutely have to re-tool this. Aaron isnt 28 anymore and neither are the receivers Its a veteran team and we need some vets on D. Shocking almost every FA we signed has been an absolute homerun. Dont overpay and be smart. Get Gilmore or Bouye (or both) and Malcom Smith (Sio Moore is intriguing as well). Maybe look at edge rushers too is Perry gets a big deal. Alex Okafor and Armonty Bryant could be upside signings as well. We absolutely have to start looking at the FA route at this point. The D needs capable players.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#169 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:37 pm

McGinn

Lang was replaced by Jason Spriggs, who played 25 snaps at right guard and the last five at right tackle. The later the season went, the worse the rookie from Indiana played. His scorecard included two pressures and 1 ½ “bad” runs. He’s too weak to sustain in the run game and is an easy mark to get walked back in protection. On a line that became synchronized in its movement, Spriggs gets into awkward positions and gaps are created. He’s turning defenders loose way too often. He has a long, long way to go.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#170 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:42 pm

Randall acts like a stud corner but his performance down the stretch was more that of a reject. He rounds off his angles, plays soft, is late to line up, doesn’t recognize patterns and doesn’t want in on the action.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#171 » by Mags FTW » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:30 pm

wichmae wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
wichmae wrote:We have some big FA decisions coming up and have some big decisions to make on Shields, and Clay. Perry is a FA, Tretter, Lang, Lacy, Hyde, and Cook. Looking at the upcoming FA list ideally we should be looking at going after Bouye or Gilmore. Theres also some intriguing ILB guys too. Have to absolutely fix this defense. Its a mess.


Shields will be interesting if say he wanted to keep playing because i wonder if the team would even let him?

Tretter and Lang will be also if the team thinks Tretter can handle playing guard. Tretter is going to want to start, so i can't see him resigning if Lang is brought back and Lang has more wear and tear on him.

Cook has to be resigned given we have garbage at TE besides him and draft picks are badly needed elsewhere.

Pass on Lacy.

Perry i have no idea how Ted handles him.

Do they ask Clay to take a pay cut? I can't see waiving him given the dearth of young pass rushers on the roster, even though he's clearly in decline.



T.J. Lang G 29 - Depends on the injury. If he did break his foot you have leverage. He may resign discounted to stay here too.

I'm almost positive he'll take a discount. He gave an interview yesterday talking about how much he and his family love the community and how the guys in the locker room are his brothers and best friends.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#172 » by LUKE23 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:46 pm

I liked what I saw out of Clark. Lowry and Fackrell had moments. Martinez was OK.

I think we need a corner and a pass rusher added either high in the draft or in FA (likely one of them will need to be FA given we are picking #29), Perry brought back, and then relative health to be an adequate defense. Capers has to go too, they need a new voice/scheme.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#173 » by BUCKnation » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:52 pm

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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#174 » by Jollay » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:25 am

Man, our last two drafts are on real shaky ground. Might turn out okay but worst case scenario we're in serious trouble. Lowry, Ryan, Clark look like average at best guys although not bad. Montgomery may just not be durable enough and too gimmicky. Odds are some of the others will bounce back but I had Spriggs, Rollins, Randall and Martinez all grading out as terrible this year at least.

That better change or those picks will hurt a lot considering we traded up for Spriggs, took R & R one, two and neglected ILB because we think Martinez is legit.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#175 » by HKPackFan » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:32 am

Jollay wrote:Man, our last two drafts are on real shaky ground. Might turn out okay but worst case scenario we're in serious trouble. Lowry, Ryan, Clark look like average at best guys although not bad. Montgomery may just not be durable enough and too gimmicky. Odds are some of the others will bounce back but I had Spriggs, Rollins, Randall and Martinez all grading out as terrible this year at least.

That better change or those picks will hurt a lot considering we traded up for Spriggs, took R & R one, two and neglected ILB because we think Martinez is legit.



The problem is we are so desperate at pass rusher and corner I think ILB gets ignored completely since TT seems happy with Ryan and Martinez. I doubt we go ILB until the 6th or 7th round hoping to find the next Joe Thomas. I think ILB stays a weakness with this team. :(
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#176 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:45 pm

Packers playoff losses since 2009:

2017: 44 points allowed, 493 yards allowed
2016: 26 points allowed, 368 yards allowed
2015: 28 points allowed, 397 yards allowed
2014: 23 points allowed, 381 yards allowed
2013: 45 points allowed, 579 yards allowed
2012: 37 points allowed, 420 yards allowed
2010: 51 points allowed, 531 yards allowed

Average points and yards given up in 7 playoff losses over 8 seasons: 36 points, and 452 yards. :o

.....I mean, at some point, this stops becoming a "talent issue" and you just have to look at what has been the one constant over the last 8 years for a defense that regularly looks unprepared and completely lost scheme-wise when the games matter most:

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Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#177 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:11 pm

HKPackFan wrote:
Jollay wrote:Man, our last two drafts are on real shaky ground. Might turn out okay but worst case scenario we're in serious trouble. Lowry, Ryan, Clark look like average at best guys although not bad. Montgomery may just not be durable enough and too gimmicky. Odds are some of the others will bounce back but I had Spriggs, Rollins, Randall and Martinez all grading out as terrible this year at least.

That better change or those picks will hurt a lot considering we traded up for Spriggs, took R & R one, two and neglected ILB because we think Martinez is legit.



The problem is we are so desperate at pass rusher and corner I think ILB gets ignored completely since TT seems happy with Ryan and Martinez. I doubt we go ILB until the 6th or 7th round hoping to find the next Joe Thomas. I think ILB stays a weakness with this team. :(

Sure an upgrade at ILB would be great but overall i do agree with their overall philosophy that its the least important position on defense. With as much nickel as the pack play and the trend of using a safety down as a lb for coverage purposes its not that important. If the pass rush and cb play improve then ilb will look fine. Look at the bears they spent a bunch of money at ilb this offseason and it didnt do much to improve their d.

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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#178 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:21 pm

You can say that our ILBs aren't equipped to cover athletic TE's and RB's in the flats and over the middle, but it's not like every other team has a Luke Kuechly or prime Patrick Willis that they're throwing out there, and they seem to do a much better job at it.

I didn't see us get beat on a single deep sideline throw (more than 25+ yards), because why would they even try it when they can just carve up the middle of our defense when we're playing 2 safeties deep and our corners are allowing an 8-yard cushion? We need to scrap this antiquated coverage scheme before we can even have an honest discussion to whether or not it's the ILBs that are even the problem right now.
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Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#179 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:37 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:You can say that our ILBs aren't equipped to cover athletic TE's and RB's in the flats and over the middle, but it's not like every other team has a Luke Kuechly or prime Patrick Willis that they're throwing out there, and they seem to do a much better job at it.

I didn't see us get beat on a single deep sideline throw (more than 25+ yards), because why would they even try it when they can just carve up the middle of our defense when we're playing 2 safeties deep and our corners are allowing an 8-yard cushion? We need to scrap this antiquated coverage scheme before we can even have an honest discussion to whether or not it's the ILBs that are even the problem right now.

They got beat plenty on deep sideline throws early and in the middle of the season. The fact they couldn't trust any of our cbs to man up a wr down the field made them play a ton of two deep safety. Thats where losing shields really hurt because he was a dude they trusted to leave on an island. Get some cbs they can trust and it will open up what they can do with the safeties. Pass rush is also key because given enough time wrs will always win even if the cb play is solid.

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Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#180 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:45 pm

Jollay wrote:Man, our last two drafts are on real shaky ground. Might turn out okay but worst case scenario we're in serious trouble. Lowry, Ryan, Clark look like average at best guys although not bad. Montgomery may just not be durable enough and too gimmicky. Odds are some of the others will bounce back but I had Spriggs, Rollins, Randall and Martinez all grading out as terrible this year at least.

That better change or those picks will hurt a lot considering we traded up for Spriggs, took R & R one, two and neglected ILB because we think Martinez is legit.

Ill give spriggs a little bit of a pass because they knew he was a project who needed to put on weight. Ill give him an offseason before killing that pick.

I think lowery is gonna be a good rotation 5 technique so im ok with that pick.

Clark was fine and should be a solid starter but he does need to improve as a pass rusher to justify using a 1st rounder on him. You can find run stuffers later in the draft.

Randle and rollins are key. If they continue to get lit on fire its an epic failure of a draft two years ago. You just cant spend that much draft capital on two guys who cant play.


One thing that I rarely see brought up but i think has had a big impact on the lack of impact players is the packers havent picked in the top 20 in like 10 years so there have been over 200 players they never had a chance to draft. If you look at every good team except the Patriots those teams have benefited from a couple blue chip high picks. Its tough when you have to mine all your talent later the draft. This is where its a very legit criticism of TT using a pure draft and develop approach since thats just so much harder when your picking late and would make sense to offset that with FA.

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