Game 13: Pack at Browns - Noon Fox

[RRyder823]

Tough road to be sure. Carolina is very good. Vikings too. And we always struggle in Detroit.

Does this not remind you of the Superbowl season just a little bit?

The Super Bowl defense held opponents to 20 points or less twelve times, and 10 points or less six times.

And the #2 ranked defense that year versus 23 this year.

However a Rodgers led offense now versus then blows them away. People forget our offense struggled a fair amount that year and really only were rolling one game in the playoffs

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[El Duderino]

Thank God the Browns are dumb enough to go to a soft defense in the third quarter just up two scores...

For all of the flack Dom deservedly gets, Williams the Browns defensive coordinator lost that game.

Hundley is terrible throwing downfield, but once up 21-7, Williams played that super soft defense which allowed Hundley to keep working his way down the field on short passes and runs after the catch. It was so dumb.

Play man coverage and force Hundley to make tough throws downfield and the Browns would have won easily.

[El Duderino]

I don't consider hoping for wins to be a homer. Hoping for losses on the remote chance it would lead to a coaching or GM change seems odd. To each their own.

And an impact player in the draft, which can propel us to *more* Super Bowls.

If the belief is that you're not going to win a SB, why not maximize for next season and beyond? Why would this be difficult to understand?

The problem though is Ted would be making the pick and his track record the last six years or so isn't exactly inspiring, especially when it comes to drafting defensive players.

His failure in drafting defense for many years now is the biggest reason why the Packers have had crappy defenses.

Plenty of other teams find good to really good defensive players outside of the top 10 picks in the draft, regardless if it's easier to land studs up there.

[TankWilson]

I don't consider hoping for wins to be a homer. Hoping for losses on the remote chance it would lead to a coaching or GM change seems odd. To each their own.

And an impact player in the draft, which can propel us to *more* Super Bowls.

If the belief is that you're not going to win a SB, why not maximize for next season and beyond? Why would this be difficult to understand?

The problem though is Ted would be making the pick and his track record the last six years or so isn't exactly inspiring, especially when it comes to drafting defensive players.

His failure in drafting defense for many years now is the biggest reason why the Packers have had crappy defenses.

Plenty of other teams find good to really good defensive players outside of the top 10 picks in the draft, regardless if it's easier to land studs up there.

Teds done well considering they are late picks. Randall shut gordon down after the initial score. Guys like dix martinez daniels clay ect are playing well and have made this D competant. Thats all you need with a healthy Arod, oh yea another guy he drafted.

[TankWilson]

I hate that we have arguably the best QB to ever step on a football field and year after year all we have is a punchers chance to get to the Super Bowl. It's all about Aaron Rodgers and squandering his carrer. If you think it's hard to get to a Super Bowl now, just wait until Aaron Rodgers retires.

It sucks that Cam Newton plays like an MVP (2015) and the Panthers go to the Super Bowl, it sucks that Matt Ryan played like an MVP last season and the Falcons go to the Super Bowl. Carson Wentz is playing like an MVP and the Eagles will probably get the #1 seed and have a great shot to get to a Super Bowl.

It sucks because Aaron Rodgers plays like an MVP season after season and the Packers can't even get to one Super Bowl. We get 10-6 and a punchers chance.

If I wasn't a Packer fan I wouldn't be bothered by that.

I'm willing to accept that Capers is a bad coordinator and that we need a replacement. I'm also willing to accept that Hundley is not good, and that it was a hard sell to keep us in the playoff picture with him quarterbacking, but here we are. Better or worse you have Capers or a disciple of Capers for the rest of the season. The way you feel about other teams like the Seahawks, the Falcons, etc - fans of those teams feel the same about us. All you need to do is be playing your best football of the season in the playoffs and make plays when the game is on the line. I don't see the point in rooting against the team.

You are asking them to squander their puncher's chance for this season to move into the middle of the round in the draft, while also complaining that we draft poorly. You are essentially rooting for us to do poorly in order to draft poorly earlier in the draft instead of rooting for the best QB to ever play football to have a shot in the playoffs? That isn't the side of the argument I'm going to sit on.

Every season Mike McCarthy is the Packers head coach is a squandered season. TT as well to a lesser extent.

I would gladly give up this season's punchers chance if it means that we won't have to settle for continuing to only have puncher's chances going forward. What MM & TT are doing is not working if your goal is getting to a Super Bowl.

Aaron Rodgers has been the Packer's starter for 10 seasons and we've only had the playoff bye twice. Never mind getting to a Super Bowl. The NFC hasn't even been that good in that span and we play in the NFC north, that's ridiculously bad when your QB is Aaron Rodgers.

If your goal is to simply make the playoffs with an all time great QB, then the Packers are doing great.

Well rodgers needs to stay on the field, would have had a BYE this year with him healthy. Its not the first season hes missed time either. There is a luck factor to this game. Pack have fought off tough breaks many times. I dont see any reason the pack cant win it all this year assuming we get a lil luck and sneak in the playoffs. Wentz is dead and so are the eagles the NFC just weakened.

[rilamann]

I don't consider hoping for wins to be a homer. Hoping for losses on the remote chance it would lead to a coaching or GM change seems odd. To each their own.

I don't think that hoping for wins right now makes anyone a homer, I do however think someone is a homer if they refuse to either acknowledge or accept the reality of the Packers situation. When I say situation I mean big picture. When I say big picture I mean having a horrible team around Rodgers and a horrible head coach. If losing to the Browns meant changes in the front office and changes with the coaching staff I would be all for it.

I am all for whatever increases the chances of Rodgers not retiring having only played in 1 Super Bowl.

The only rebuttal to that you can sell me on is that even if the Packers had finished 4-12, there would still likely be no changes. Which unfortunately is probably the biggest reality of all and tells you a lot about Mark Murphy and how this organization is run.

It's crazy to me that so many people around here don't at least see that perspective, even if they don't necessarily agree with it, they can't even grasp the point view. That's really odd to me.


It's also odd because a lot of us here are also Bucks fans and on the Bucks board people treat the Bucks more along the lines of how I treat the Packers here, but those same people will act as if I am not a real Packer fan because I don't applaud every thing they do and overrate our players.

If people had the same mentality towards the Bucks that they have towards the Packers, Herb Kohl & John Hammond would have gotten a statues in front of the BC for trading Tobias Harris for JJ Redick, I mean we did end up getting the #8 seed.

A lot of Packer fans come across more like followers of a cult than fans of a team. It's like the Packers can do no wrong and anyone who questions anything they do should be cursed.

[Profound23]

Let's try to find a middle ground here.

On one hand:
Nobody should be angry the Packers were able to get a few wins during Rodgers absence. The fans hoping for losses, should understand why some didn't want this to happen. Gives us a chance at still making the postseason if Rodgers can make it back.

On the other hand:
Some people should be able to see why some of us wanted to lose out. Adding a top ten draft pick (if we drafted the right guy with it) could help this team out immensely. It would have made sure Capers was fired and put MM/TT on the hotseat for the foreseeable future.

[crkone]

Let's try to find a middle ground here.

On one hand:
Nobody should be angry the Packers were able to get a few wins during Rodgers absence. The fans hoping for losses, should understand why some didn't want this to happen. Gives us a chance at still making the postseason if Rodgers can make it back.

On the other hand:
Some people should be able to see why some of us wanted to lose out. Adding a top ten draft pick (if we drafted the right guy with it) could help this team out immensely. It would have made sure Capers was fired and put MM/TT on the hotseat for the foreseeable future.

I doubt this. They have the the injury excuse built-in every year.

[Iheartfootball]

If Rodgers comes back and a game goes into overtime, put in Hundley...lol.

That my friend would be ironic.

[JimmyTheKid]

Let's try to find a middle ground here.

On one hand:
Nobody should be angry the Packers were able to get a few wins during Rodgers absence. The fans hoping for losses, should understand why some didn't want this to happen. Gives us a chance at still making the postseason if Rodgers can make it back.

On the other hand:
Some people should be able to see why some of us wanted to lose out. Adding a top ten draft pick (if we drafted the right guy with it) could help this team out immensely. It would have made sure Capers was fired and put MM/TT on the hotseat for the foreseeable future.

Yup. Sigh. I watched the whole game as always, and was excited with the win. Happy for Brett Hundley. But my mind can't help but wander to "what could have been" regarding the coaching staff if we had lost to both the lowly Bucs and and even-lowly-er Browns.

[M-C-G]

I don't consider hoping for wins to be a homer. Hoping for losses on the remote chance it would lead to a coaching or GM change seems odd. To each their own.

I don't think that hoping for wins right now makes anyone a homer, I do however think someone is a homer if they refuse to either acknowledge or accept the reality of the Packers situation. When I say situation I mean big picture. When I say big picture I mean having a horrible team around Rodgers and a horrible head coach. If losing to the Browns meant changes in the front office and changes with the coaching staff I would be all for it.

I am all for whatever increases the chances of Rodgers not retiring having only played in 1 Super Bowl.

The only rebuttal to that you can sell me on is that even if the Packers had finished 4-12, there would still likely be no changes. Which unfortunately is probably the biggest reality of all and tells you a lot about Mark Murphy and how this organization is run.

It's crazy to me that so many people around here don't at least see that perspective, even if they don't necessarily agree with it, they can't even grasp the point view. That's really odd to me.


It's also odd because a lot of us here are also Bucks fans and on the Bucks board people treat the Bucks more along the lines of how I treat the Packers here, but those same people will act as if I am not a real Packer fan because I don't applaud every thing they do and overrate our players.

If people had the same mentality towards the Bucks that they have towards the Packers, Herb Kohl & John Hammond would have gotten a statues in front of the BC for trading Tobias Harris for JJ Redick, I mean we did end up getting the #8 seed.

A lot of Packer fans come across more like followers of a cult than fans of a team. It's like the Packers can do no wrong and anyone who questions anything they do should be cursed.

It would be much more like the Bucks if the Bucks had been a 50 win team the last decade and not won a championship. The Bucks are much more like the early 90s Packers, coming off decades of crapiness.

I've long been a TT supporter and still am, but I am also at the point where I want to see if some change can take things to the next level. If that means TT has to go, so be it, if that means Mac has to go so be it.

As for Dom, when you have guys like Stafford talking about how many years they played against a Dom defense so they know where the holes are in any given situation, that tells you all you need to know about that. It's time for Dom to hang them up

[RRyder823]

I don't consider hoping for wins to be a homer. Hoping for losses on the remote chance it would lead to a coaching or GM change seems odd. To each their own.

I don't think that hoping for wins right now makes anyone a homer, I do however think someone is a homer if they refuse to either acknowledge or accept the reality of the Packers situation. When I say situation I mean big picture. When I say big picture I mean having a horrible team around Rodgers and a horrible head coach. If losing to the Browns meant changes in the front office and changes with the coaching staff I would be all for it.

I am all for whatever increases the chances of Rodgers not retiring having only played in 1 Super Bowl.

The only rebuttal to that you can sell me on is that even if the Packers had finished 4-12, there would still likely be no changes. Which unfortunately is probably the biggest reality of all and tells you a lot about Mark Murphy and how this organization is run.

It's crazy to me that so many people around here don't at least see that perspective, even if they don't necessarily agree with it, they can't even grasp the point view. That's really odd to me.


It's also odd because a lot of us here are also Bucks fans and on the Bucks board people treat the Bucks more along the lines of how I treat the Packers here, but those same people will act as if I am not a real Packer fan because I don't applaud every thing they do and overrate our players.

If people had the same mentality towards the Bucks that they have towards the Packers, Herb Kohl & John Hammond would have gotten a statues in front of the BC for trading Tobias Harris for JJ Redick, I mean we did end up getting the #8 seed.

A lot of Packer fans come across more like followers of a cult than fans of a team. It's like the Packers can do no wrong and anyone who questions anything they do should be cursed.

If you think the Bucks are even comparable to the Packers as an organization in history, success, how they're run or really in any way what's so ever then I don't know what to tell you



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[RRyder823]

Let's try to find a middle ground here.

On one hand:
Nobody should be angry the Packers were able to get a few wins during Rodgers absence. The fans hoping for losses, should understand why some didn't want this to happen. Gives us a chance at still making the postseason if Rodgers can make it back.

On the other hand:
Some people should be able to see why some of us wanted to lose out. Adding a top ten draft pick (if we drafted the right guy with it) could help this team out immensely. It would have made sure Capers was fired and put MM/TT on the hotseat for the foreseeable future.

I get it. I'm fine with everything you posted

I think the disconnect comes when it seems like people want to complain because they want an "I told you so" moment and didnt get it. (I'm really only talking about a few posters with that though)

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[rilamann]

If you think the Bucks are even comparable to the Packers as an organization in history, success, how they're run or really in any way what's so ever then I don't know what to tell you



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In terms of history and success no, but the Packers over the past 6 or 7 years have been a carbon copy of the Herb Kohl era Bucks in how they are run. Some people can't see it because Aaron Rodgers covers a lot of warts as they say.

The fact that Dom Capers wasn't fired like **** 5 years ago and still has a job is some Kohl era ****. The fact that McCarthy is still the head coach at this point is Kohl era. How many draft picks on the defensive side of the ball has Ted totally whiffed on over the past 6 or 7 years? Hence why our defense is really bad.

How about not even offering Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde contracts?? Two of the best defensive players in the league and you didn't even offer them contracts to stay here and your defense is terrible. That's Herb Kohl era level incompetence personified. Just look at the team overall, it's terrible. We could face the Eagles in the playoffs with Nick Foles at QB while we have Aaron Rodgers and it wouldn't matter, because our defense is so bad it totally closes that gap.

[BUCKnation]

The idea of bringing Hayward and Hyde back is revisionist history. I think it was pretty much a consensus that it was fine to let them go at the rate the game. If anything its more of a discredit to how bad the defensive coaching staff is to not see that type of production (although Hyde was really good last year).

[chuckleslove]

The idea of bringing Hayward and Hyde back is revisionist history. I think it was pretty much a consensus that it was fine to let them go at the rate the game. If anything its more of a discredit to how bad the defensive coaching staff is to not see that type of production (although Hyde was really good last year).

Pretty much this. Micah Hyde was pretty hated on the boards here because he was thrown in to a starter role probably earlier than he should have been. When both players signed elsewhere the consensus here was that they weren't worth their contracts. Same with House when he left.

[RRyder823]

The idea of bringing Hayward and Hyde back is revisionist history. I think it was pretty much a consensus that it was fine to let them go at the rate the game. If anything its more of a discredit to how bad the defensive coaching staff is to not see that type of production (although Hyde was really good last year).

I still don't want any part of the contract that Hyde got.

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[RRyder823]

If you think the Bucks are even comparable to the Packers as an organization in history, success, how they're run or really in any way what's so ever then I don't know what to tell you



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In terms of history and success no, but the Packers over the past 6 or 7 years have been a carbon copy of the Herb Kohl era Bucks in how they are run. Some people can't see it because Aaron Rodgers covers a lot of warts as they say.

The fact that Dom Capers wasn't fired like **** 5 years ago and still has a job is some Kohl era ****. The fact that McCarthy is still the head coach at this point is Kohl era. How many draft picks on the defensive side of the ball has Ted totally whiffed on over the past 6 or 7 years? Hence why our defense is really bad.

How about not even offering Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde contracts?? Two of the best defensive players in the league and you didn't even offer them contracts to stay here and your defense is terrible. That's Herb Kohl era level incompetence personified. Just look at the team overall, it's terrible. We could face the Eagles in the playoffs with Nick Foles at QB while we have Aaron Rodgers and it wouldn't matter, because our defense is so bad it totally closes that gap.

Yeah still not comparable at all. You're reaching with this analogy. Like this isn't even close but hey we all got a narrative to push I guess.

As for TT and his picks the blame falls on Capers. There's talent on the defense.

Chicken and the egg. Either TT hasn't given Capers enough to work with or Capers is bad at his job. With players like Clark, Daniels, Martinez, Ha Ha, Burnett, King and Jones on D I'll choose the latter.

Yes not having let Capers go is a mistake but absolutely not even coparable to the Bucks and how they've been run. Give it a rest

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[rilamann]

The idea of bringing Hayward and Hyde back is revisionist history. I think it was pretty much a consensus that it was fine to let them go at the rate the game. If anything its more of a discredit to how bad the defensive coaching staff is to not see that type of production (although Hyde was really good last year).

Revisionist history for the fans.

By this logic you are saying that Ted Thompson knows as much as the average fan. I'll be honest, I was ok with letting Hayward go, I wanted to keep Hyde, but I didn't lose any sleep over letting him go, but I am just a fan. I'm not there seeing these guys at practice every day like Ted, I don't get paid a 7 figure salary every year like Ted to recognize talent.

The fact both Hayward and Hyde are now two of the better defensive players in the league at their positions and the Packer's didn't even offer them contracts speaks volumes. It's not like the Packers offered them contracts and were outbid or offered them contracts and they just didn't want to be here. If that was the case I'd kinda give Ted a pass here, but they didn't even offer them contracts. That is insane.

Scheme or not, you should be able to recognize the talent that is there when you see these guys up close in practice day after day after day. Ted obviously didn't if he didn't even offer either of them contracts.

It's not lost on me that scheme is probably a factor here, but if even if you are more on that side of the argument, that should speak volumes too. Like why is Dom Capers still here? I think Dom Capers is a problem, but I think Mike McCarthy is a bigger problem. There's a certain mentality with this team that is not good and it's not going to go away until McCarthy goes away.

Hayward and Hyde became dramatically better players literally the second they left the Packers.

One of the things that impresses me the most about Aaron Rodgers is how he hides to a certain extent the incompetence that is going on in the Packer's front office and on game days with McCarthy on the sidelines.

[rilamann]

Chicken and the egg. Either TT hasn't given Capers enough to work with or Capers is bad at his job. With players like Clark, Daniels, Martinez, Ha Ha, Burnett, King and Jones on D I'll choose the latter.


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That's the debate, the problem is we're never going to find out which side is right because the Packers as an organization evidently don't recognize this issue here. It's like everyone involved with the Packers is oblivious to how bad our defense has been the past 6 years. I know Herb Kohl era level incompetence when I see it. With the Packers you can be really bad at your job and still get a lifetime contract it appears.

This Capers' scheme vs Ted's talent thing should have been figured out a long long time ago. Maybe they'll have it out figured out by the time Aaron Rodgers is 40.