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Raiders Lead Up

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#61 » by RRyder823 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:05 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I don't know where you guys keep coming up with this "EQ was only the #6 WR on the depth chart" thing but you're 100% wrong. Having him healthy would have been huge given how decimated with injuries the position currently is.
Sure we could use him given the situation but still doesnt change the fact he wasnt close to being one of the top four WRs before he got hurt.

They couldve had him back this year but they didnt even think he was worth a roster spot for a single day because they thought the risk of losing Shepherd outweighed being able to designate ESB to return

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#62 » by LikeABosh » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:07 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:I see 3. Who's the 4th?

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ESB.
The guy who was at best probably the #6 WR at the end of camp?

I've seen him mentioned before and I think people are forgetting just how far down the depth chart he was

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He was definitely our #4 and we could use him right now
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#63 » by RRyder823 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:11 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
ESB.
The guy who was at best probably the #6 WR at the end of camp?

I've seen him mentioned before and I think people are forgetting just how far down the depth chart he was

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He was definitely our #4 and we could use him right now
He was pretty clearly behind Adams, Allison, MVS and Davis at the end of camp. That's 4 right there

He was also debatable behind Kumerow

Not sure how or why anyone would think he was one of the top 4. He wasnt by any standard

Yes we could use him now. The Packers however didnt think the risk of losing Shepherd was even worth it to keep a roster spot for ESB for a single day to make that a possibility.

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#64 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:19 pm

They literally got rid of Davis because he would have otherwise have been cut.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#65 » by Kerb Hohl » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:27 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:They literally got rid of Davis because he would have otherwise have been cut.


I don't have a dog in the fight here but Davis was traded after ESB was put on season-ending IR so not sure if that is relevant.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#66 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:27 pm

The drafted guy who played the 3rd most snaps out of all our receivers last year as a rookie and who players and coaches were raving about in camp wasn't getting beat out by undrafted roster scrubs and a guy that we literally dumped for next to nothing (Davis). I don't know how else to say that with any more certainty.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#67 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:30 pm

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#68 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:22 pm

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#69 » by MoMM » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:49 pm

He was definitely behind Adams, Allison and MVS, but ahead of all of the other WRs, maybe Kumerow was #4B, but considering last season, EQ was our #4.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#70 » by RRyder823 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:48 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The drafted guy who played the 3rd most snaps out of all our receivers last year as a rookie and who players and coaches were raving about in camp wasn't getting beat out by undrafted roster scrubs and a guy that we literally dumped for next to nothing (Davis). I don't know how else to say that with any more certainty.


They were raving about Davis too and yet traded him as tough said so that's kinda irrelevant. Hell they were raving about Kumerow too

And as for the undrafted scrubs they wouldn't even RISK losing one in order to have the ability to designate ESB to return.

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#71 » by stillgotgame » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:49 pm

So how did Josh Jackson go from #1 in the NCAA in interceptions, and #3 in the country in passes defended in 2017 to unplayable in 2019? Please don't tell me skill level, he clearly had it. He's not small, nor have I ever heard he's got a bad attitude. As for speed, I thought he plays kinda slow, but here's a 4.49...
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#72 » by PintSizedBox10 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:56 pm

Wouldn’t mind using Jackson as a throw in for a trade. He’s young and I think he can still be a solid player

Still really surprised by how little he gets on the field for us.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#73 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:36 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:The drafted guy who played the 3rd most snaps out of all our receivers last year as a rookie and who players and coaches were raving about in camp wasn't getting beat out by undrafted roster scrubs and a guy that we literally dumped for next to nothing (Davis). I don't know how else to say that with any more certainty.


They were raving about Davis too and yet traded him as tough said so that's kinda irrelevant. Hell they were raving about Kumerow too

And as for the undrafted scrubs they wouldn't even RISK losing one in order to have the ability to designate ESB to return.

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I don't know why you think Davis was gonna be anything but cut. The Packers consider themselves contenders. You don't trade useful pieces for 6th round picks unless you think you have better players behind them (the Packers did/do).
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#74 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 pm

stillgotgame wrote:So how did Josh Jackson go from #1 in the NCAA in interceptions, and #3 in the country in passes defended in 2017 to unplayable in 2019? Please don't tell me skill level, he clearly had it. He's not small, nor have I ever heard he's got a bad attitude. As for speed, I thought he plays kinda slow, but here's a 4.49...
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Some of it is simply this is a good deep position group and he's behind good players. He really only profiles as an outside CB and jaire and king are better. Sullivan and Redmond are ahead of him in some of the sub packages because they are a little more versitile. Missing most of camp hurt him because he needed reps at different positions.

Overall he's a little stiff and is probably better in a zone scheme he's also very handsy and prone to penalties.

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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#75 » by RRyder823 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:25 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:The drafted guy who played the 3rd most snaps out of all our receivers last year as a rookie and who players and coaches were raving about in camp wasn't getting beat out by undrafted roster scrubs and a guy that we literally dumped for next to nothing (Davis). I don't know how else to say that with any more certainty.


They were raving about Davis too and yet traded him as tough said so that's kinda irrelevant. Hell they were raving about Kumerow too

And as for the undrafted scrubs they wouldn't even RISK losing one in order to have the ability to designate ESB to return.

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I don't know why you think Davis was gonna be anything but cut. The Packers consider themselves contenders. You don't trade useful pieces for 6th round picks unless you think you have better players behind them (the Packers did/do).
You're right. The Packers thought they could get something for Davis and there would be guys behind him that could step up. They were wrong. (also I'm not sure why you keep saying he was going to be cut as if that is a definitive statement) Also that's kinda irrelevant as ESB was hurt well before Davis was traded so it's just saying they thought they had other players not named ESB that could step up

I also could make the argument that if they thought ESB was one of the top 4 WRs then they would've taken the risk of losing Shepherd in order to designate him to return. They didnt view ESB high enough this season to even risk losing Shepherd so what does that say?

I'm not trying to play Davis or anybody else up. But ESB looked pretty clearly behind other guys and saying he was a top 4 WR on this team at the end of camp isnt accurate. I will say I thought everyone past the top 3 would share time to an extent.



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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#76 » by Xanadu » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:22 am

What's the story on Savage's injury? On timetable for his return. Really think we miss him and don't think that flea flicker happens with him out there.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#77 » by Profound23 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:51 pm

Xanadu wrote:What's the story on Savage's injury? On timetable for his return. Really think we miss him and don't think that flea flicker happens with him out there.


Agreed.....and even if the flea flicker happens, more than likely the big play on their next drive doesn’t. Also, if Clark is out too then Jacobs might have a bunch of open lanes.
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#78 » by Mags FTW » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:56 pm

It seems like we always have more injuries than the league average. Am I just imagining things, or is there a database that keeps track of games missed by starters that can confirm this?
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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#79 » by stillgotgame » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:30 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
stillgotgame wrote:So how did Josh Jackson go from #1 in the NCAA in interceptions, and #3 in the country in passes defended in 2017 to unplayable in 2019? Please don't tell me skill level, he clearly had it. He's not small, nor have I ever heard he's got a bad attitude. As for speed, I thought he plays kinda slow, but here's a 4.49...
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Some of it is simply this is a good deep position group and he's behind good players. He really only profiles as an outside CB and jaire and king are better. Sullivan and Redmond are ahead of him in some of the sub packages because they are a little more versitile. Missing most of camp hurt him because he needed reps at different positions.

Overall he's a little stiff and is probably better in a zone scheme he's also very handsy and prone to penalties.

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Yep, I agree.
I wonder if he could play strong safety or inside dime backer? He's bigger than Redmond, albeit slower. He's light years faster than Martinez, and it would be hard to be worse as an open field tackler.
Obviously he's never played there so there's that. But the guy has talent. Let's use him or trade him.




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Re: Raiders Lead Up 

Post#80 » by RRyder823 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:47 pm

Mags FTW wrote:It seems like we always have more injuries than the league average. Am I just imagining things, or is there a database that keeps track of games missed by starters that can confirm this?
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-adjusted-games-lost-part-i

While it definitely seems that way to fans its generally in our own head. The last 2 years the Packers ranked 21st in Adjusted Games Lost. Not good by any stretch but still low end average. I only could find the last two years but im sure if you go back further we probably have a few years in 10-15 range

The bigger issue is when it hits one side of the ball as noted in the bottom chart where last year the Packers were #8 in AGL (pretty good) on offense but were #30 (ouch) on defense..... That said good lord even I didnt realize how bad it was for Tampa on defense last year before looking this up. That's not a record you want to set


edit: just found this on reddit from 2017 for a 4 year window which has the Packers at #14 so "very slightly" above average

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/6a095l/a_4_year_look_at_adjusted_games_lost_football/

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