Game 5: Packers at Raiders - 10/9/23 - 7:15 - ESPN/Channel 12

[WeekapaugGroove]

Snap counts and commentary from Evan Western:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/10/10/23911360/packers-week-5-snap-counts-defense-deals-with-losses-of-quay-walker-darnell-savage

I thought the D looked fine with Walker and Savage out. Savage straight up sucks so no surprise there. I'll be curious to see how things look it Walker misses time because I still think it's a bit of a good splash play/less noticable bad read fundamentals mix from him.

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The one play I really noticed missing Walker was on the Jacobs TD run, Mcduffie & Wilson got moved out of the way so easily

Walker had the worst PFF score on the D before getting hurt. Kenny Clark needs to play the run better. Preston with a bad score but I'm not sure they should really hold the coverage stuff against him.

https://sports-yahoo-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/packers-pff-grades-best-worst-163614813.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16969840687158&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fpackers-pff-grades-best-worst-163614813.html

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[Treebeard]

I thought the D looked fine with Walker and Savage out. Savage straight up sucks so no surprise there. I'll be curious to see how things look it Walker misses time because I still think it's a bit of a good splash play/less noticable bad read fundamentals mix from him.

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The one play I really noticed missing Walker was on the Jacobs TD run, Mcduffie & Wilson got moved out of the way so easily

Walker had the worst PFF score on the D before getting hurt. Kenny Clark needs to play the run better. Preston with a bad score but I'm not sure they should really hold the coverage stuff against him.

https://sports-yahoo-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/packers-pff-grades-best-worst-163614813.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16969840687158&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fpackers-pff-grades-best-worst-163614813.html

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To my eye, last night was by far Preston's best game this season. Him having to guard Davante *more than once* wasn't a good idea, whoever thought of it. If those plays are part of the PFF score, its one more reason to grade PFF as a highly imperfect tool.

[Kerb Hohl]

I am in the odd position of year 5 or whatever and I have no idea how to judge MLF.

He had Rodgers/Davante/Jones and whoever was responsible for that, he revived Rodgers' career and they had a great offense.

Now this year he has a new QB that I'm kinda "meh" on so far, a bad offensive line, and without Jones/healthy Watson, barely any NFL players on offense. Pick your offensive mastermind that runs this scheme - Kyle Shanahan - I'm not sure he makes much more of this situation.

Last week they played the Lions, had an "aggressive" gameplan, nobody got open and Love got murdered, game over 10 minutes into it. Fans asked why we didn't run more because that went south.

This week, yes, to be fair the Raiders suck outside of Crosby vs. a good defense + Hutchinson (Lions), they just took what was given to them with the run, the game was close. Fans asking to throw more. I'm starting to think that outside of Jones/Watson who have barely been on the field at 100%, most of these guys suck. Doubs is OK, Reed has some upside, Musgrave has some upside.

I'd like to see him take a cheap/solid QB with a bunch of talent around the offense and makes it go like Shanahan/McVay/McDaniel have. We may never see that.

[MVP2110]

Just got done with my rewatch of the game. It seems MLF was calling the same plays as he always does in this and didn't account for his LT being gone and having rookie tight ends blocking. I maintain that I think MLF draws up some really cool designs but in order for his designs to work he needs plus blocking from not just his offensive line but his tight ends & sometimes WRs. He acted like he still had Marcedes Lewis out there and not Tucker Kraft or Ben Sims. There were times when MLF did call max protect and they still failed to properly protect which was unfortunate. The broadcast did say that the coaches didn't find out until Sunday that Aaron Jones wasn't going to be able to go and that they basically had to change the gameplan overnight so I do wonder how much that effected things. You can tell MLF wants to stretch the field horizontally & vertically but it doesn't seem right now that he has the personnel to do that. You could also see "young" moments of receivers running into the same area of the field and just standing there which I'm positive wasn't the designed route or intention.

Love wasn't good in this game, it was by far his worst of the season imo. Through the first 4 weeks Love's best area of strength was throwing to the middle of the field and Vegas completely took that away and Love didn't handle it well. The run blocking was really poor once again and I'm surprised Dillon got as many yards as he did, this was definitely his best game of the season imo. Doubs & Reed really struggled in this one to find open space and beat their man which certainly didn't help anything and Musgrave was really disappointing too, he had alot of catches but failed to really make anyone miss once he had the ball.

The defense mostly played fine I thought. They weren't great but they essentially gave up 14 points(20 if you want to factor in them getting somewhat lucky on missed FGs) but that's not terrible, that gave the offense a chance to win. I thought Barry got pretty creative in how they defended Adams and for the most part it worked. I know the screenshot going around about Preston but to me that's more on the ILB(Mcduffie or Wilson) to call a change in coverage there since Vegas came out in 12 personnel but then went 5 wide.

Special teams was mostly good in this one, they sent a lot of guys in attempts to block fgs and punts which was interesting and why we likely saw alot of fair catches.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Just got done with my rewatch of the game. It seems MLF was calling the same plays as he always does in this and didn't account for his LT being gone and having rookie tight ends blocking. I maintain that I think MLF draws up some really cool designs but in order for his designs to work he needs plus blocking from not just his offensive line but his tight ends & sometimes WRs. He acted like he still had Marcedes Lewis out there and not Tucker Kraft or Ben Sims. There were times when MLF did call max protect and they still failed to properly protect which was unfortunate. The broadcast did say that the coaches didn't find out until Sunday that Aaron Jones wasn't going to be able to go and that they basically had to change the gameplan overnight so I do wonder how much that effected things. You can tell MLF wants to stretch the field horizontally & vertically but it doesn't seem right now that he has the personnel to do that. You could also see "young" moments of receivers running into the same area of the field and just standing there which I'm positive wasn't the designed route or intention.

Love wasn't good in this game, it was by far his worst of the season imo. Through the first 4 weeks Love's best area of strength was throwing to the middle of the field and Vegas completely took that away and Love didn't handle it well. The run blocking was really poor once again and I'm surprised Dillon got as many yards as he did, this was definitely his best game of the season imo. Doubs & Reed really struggled in this one to find open space and beat their man which certainly didn't help anything and Musgrave was really disappointing too, he had alot of catches but failed to really make anyone miss once he had the ball.

The defense mostly played fine I thought. They weren't great but they essentially gave up 14 points(20 if you want to factor in them getting somewhat lucky on missed FGs) but that's not terrible, that gave the offense a chance to win. I thought Barry got pretty creative in how they defended Adams and for the most part it worked. I know the screenshot going around about Preston but to me that's more on the ILB(Mcduffie or Wilson) to call a change in coverage there since Vegas came out in 12 personnel but then went 5 wide.

Special teams was mostly good in this one, they sent a lot of guys in attempts to block fgs and punts which was interesting and why we likely saw alot of fair catches.

I'm not as down on MLF as some around here but I do think he has a bad habit not adjusting to protection problems quickly enough during games. I also think some of his plays are too slow developing and require some really challenging reach blocks.

Probably my two biggest complaints about him as a coach.

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[skones]

Just got done with my rewatch of the game. It seems MLF was calling the same plays as he always does in this and didn't account for his LT being gone and having rookie tight ends blocking. I maintain that I think MLF draws up some really cool designs but in order for his designs to work he needs plus blocking from not just his offensive line but his tight ends & sometimes WRs. He acted like he still had Marcedes Lewis out there and not Tucker Kraft or Ben Sims. There were times when MLF did call max protect and they still failed to properly protect which was unfortunate. The broadcast did say that the coaches didn't find out until Sunday that Aaron Jones wasn't going to be able to go and that they basically had to change the gameplan overnight so I do wonder how much that effected things. You can tell MLF wants to stretch the field horizontally & vertically but it doesn't seem right now that he has the personnel to do that. You could also see "young" moments of receivers running into the same area of the field and just standing there which I'm positive wasn't the designed route or intention.

Love wasn't good in this game, it was by far his worst of the season imo. Through the first 4 weeks Love's best area of strength was throwing to the middle of the field and Vegas completely took that away and Love didn't handle it well. The run blocking was really poor once again and I'm surprised Dillon got as many yards as he did, this was definitely his best game of the season imo. Doubs & Reed really struggled in this one to find open space and beat their man which certainly didn't help anything and Musgrave was really disappointing too, he had alot of catches but failed to really make anyone miss once he had the ball.

The defense mostly played fine I thought. They weren't great but they essentially gave up 14 points(20 if you want to factor in them getting somewhat lucky on missed FGs) but that's not terrible, that gave the offense a chance to win. I thought Barry got pretty creative in how they defended Adams and for the most part it worked. I know the screenshot going around about Preston but to me that's more on the ILB(Mcduffie or Wilson) to call a change in coverage there since Vegas came out in 12 personnel but then went 5 wide.

Special teams was mostly good in this one, they sent a lot of guys in attempts to block fgs and punts which was interesting and why we likely saw alot of fair catches.

I'm not as down on MLF as some around here but I do think he has a bad habit not adjusting to protection problems quickly enough during games. I also think some of his plays are too slow developing and require some really challenging reach blocks.

Probably my two biggest complaints about him as a coach.

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Honestly, I think it's an adjustment problem in general. How many times under Rodgers did this offense look like a well oiled machine in those first half scripted drives only to completely fall off particularly after halftime? I think MLF is great at scripting stuff, but when things go offscript he really struggles and that's where Rodgers greatness carried us on its back.

It puts a whole lot into perspective for the Rodgers was an average QB last year. Statistically? Sure. But, there's all that little mental game within a game stuff that he was still elite at even with a bum thumb that covered up a lot of warts.

[MVP2110]

Just got done with my rewatch of the game. It seems MLF was calling the same plays as he always does in this and didn't account for his LT being gone and having rookie tight ends blocking. I maintain that I think MLF draws up some really cool designs but in order for his designs to work he needs plus blocking from not just his offensive line but his tight ends & sometimes WRs. He acted like he still had Marcedes Lewis out there and not Tucker Kraft or Ben Sims. There were times when MLF did call max protect and they still failed to properly protect which was unfortunate. The broadcast did say that the coaches didn't find out until Sunday that Aaron Jones wasn't going to be able to go and that they basically had to change the gameplan overnight so I do wonder how much that effected things. You can tell MLF wants to stretch the field horizontally & vertically but it doesn't seem right now that he has the personnel to do that. You could also see "young" moments of receivers running into the same area of the field and just standing there which I'm positive wasn't the designed route or intention.

Love wasn't good in this game, it was by far his worst of the season imo. Through the first 4 weeks Love's best area of strength was throwing to the middle of the field and Vegas completely took that away and Love didn't handle it well. The run blocking was really poor once again and I'm surprised Dillon got as many yards as he did, this was definitely his best game of the season imo. Doubs & Reed really struggled in this one to find open space and beat their man which certainly didn't help anything and Musgrave was really disappointing too, he had alot of catches but failed to really make anyone miss once he had the ball.

The defense mostly played fine I thought. They weren't great but they essentially gave up 14 points(20 if you want to factor in them getting somewhat lucky on missed FGs) but that's not terrible, that gave the offense a chance to win. I thought Barry got pretty creative in how they defended Adams and for the most part it worked. I know the screenshot going around about Preston but to me that's more on the ILB(Mcduffie or Wilson) to call a change in coverage there since Vegas came out in 12 personnel but then went 5 wide.

Special teams was mostly good in this one, they sent a lot of guys in attempts to block fgs and punts which was interesting and why we likely saw alot of fair catches.

I'm not as down on MLF as some around here but I do think he has a bad habit not adjusting to protection problems quickly enough during games. I also think some of his plays are too slow developing and require some really challenging reach blocks.

Probably my two biggest complaints about him as a coach.

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Honestly, I think it's an adjustment problem in general. How many times under Rodgers did this offense look like a well oiled machine in those first half scripted drives only to completely fall off particularly after halftime? I think MLF is great at scripting stuff, but when things go offscript he really struggles and that's where Rodgers greatness carried us on its back.

It puts a whole lot into perspective for the Rodgers was an average QB last year. Statistically? Sure. But, there's all that little mental game within a game stuff that he was still elite at even with a bum thumb that covered up a lot of warts.

I actually think this is completely backwards at least for this year. It feels like our offense has gotten off to really slow starts and the initial gameplan is sort of trash but then as MLF is able to see what defenses are doing they've adjusted and had much better 2nd halfs. In all 5 games so far they've scored more in the 2nd half than the 1st half and the only game where they've gotten blown out was Detroit so it's not like they are doing that in garbage time

[Treebeard]

^^^What explains the consistently flat-footed starts for the Offense? As we've seen, they usually do much better second half, so there's capability there.What is preventing them from getting rolling at the start?