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We lost Moss cause of TT's ineptitude

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We lost Moss cause of TT's ineptitude 

Post#1 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue May 1, 2007 3:00 pm

Ted Thompson thought he had the Raiders in a corner and he lowballed not only the Raiders, but Moss as well. Friday night he thought a 4th round pick was worth Moss. But come Sat, he decided, I'll give em a 5th round pick, and I'll offer Moss a 2 yr deal. Well, the Raiders got better than a 5th and Moss didn't want a 2yr deal.

I'm so sick of this guy, our offense could've been scary dangerous, but he needs to go ahead and draft two WR's who probably won't see a snap this year and let one of the most prolific WR's slip thru his hands.

From the Wisconsin State Journal today

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/ ... 28&ntpid=3


GREEN BAY - General manager Ted Thompson left Lambeau Field Saturday night convinced of two things: That his Green Bay Packers still had a legitimate shot at trading for Oakland Raiders wide receiver Randy Moss, and that Moss wasn't worth more than a fifth-round draft pick.

So it came as a surprise to Thompson when he arrived at work on Sunday morning for Day 2 of the NFL draft and learned - along with the rest of the football world - that the Raiders traded Moss to the New England Patriots for a fourth-round pick.

According to an NFL source with knowledge of the negotiations, the problem for the Packers wasn't that Moss preferred to play for the Patriots, or that they couldn't reach an accord on a new contract. Rather, it was that Patriots coach Bill Belichick decided after Day 1 of the draft to give up a fourth-rounder for Moss and Thompson wasn't going to surrender more than a fifth-rounder.

Another league source said Friday night that the Packers were willing to part with a fourth-rounder for Moss, but apparently once the draft began, Thompson decided the enigmatic wideout wasn't worth that high of a pick.

In his post-draft news conference, Thompson sidestepped questions as to why the Packers didn't get Moss ("Couldn't tell you"), whether there was anything he could have done differently to get Moss ("I can't really talk about stuff like that") and why he thought Moss, despite his character questions, was worth pursuing in the first place ("I think I'll just pass on that").

Packers pro personnel director Reggie McKenzie said reports that Moss chose the Patriots over the Packers were inaccurate, and that it was Raiders owner Al Davis' decision to send Moss to the Patriots. McKenzie said the Packers had engaged in contract talks with Moss and were willing to sign him to a two-year deal, as opposed to the one-year, $3 million contract he signed with the Patriots. Moss can make an additional $2 million in incentives.


"We were in the game," McKenzie said. "It came to the point where New England had the ammunition the Raiders wanted. It really came down to Al Davis' decision."

According to Belichick, the trade talks heated up on Saturday night, when he spoke with Davis and Moss, who had career lows in receptions (42), yards (553) and touchdowns (three) last season for the 2-14 Raiders.

"We felt like, if we were going to (trade) a pick that was in (Sunday's) round, that we would need to get that rolling (Saturday) night," Belichick said. "The wheels started spinning pretty fast.

"It was 2 (o'clock) in the morning. I could hear it in (Moss') voice - he was enthusiastic about it. That (was) great, (but) at that point, really, more than anything, we were just trying to get things done."

The Patriots got the trade bait they needed when they dealt the second of their two first-round picks (28th overall) to the San Francisco 49ers on Saturday for the Niners' 2008 first-round pick and 2007 fourth-round pick (110th). That fourth-rounder then went to the Raiders for Moss.

The San Francisco Chronicle reported that the teams came close to making the same deal Friday, but the Raiders backed away, presumably to see if they could get a better deal from the Packers.

They couldn't, and by Sunday morning, Moss was in Foxborough, Mass., where he passed his physical to make the deal official. McKenzie said the Packers never considered dealing the extra third-round pick they acquired in a Saturday trade with the New York Jets.

Moss, who tore up the two years he had remaining on his Raiders' contract - forfeiting base salaries of $9.75 million this season and $11.25 million in 2008 - to make the deal work, said in a conference call with Boston-area reporters Sunday that he was excited about playing for the Patriots, who have re-made their receiving corps and are a Super Bowl XLII favorite.

"When the opportunity came around for me to be traded to New England, and I talked to coach Belichick, once I started hearing the buzz in the air and on the TV, it was just more like me getting a chance to really get on that Super Bowl stage and really show the world who am I am and what I am able to do," said Moss, who hung up before he could be asked about his interest in playing in Green Bay with quarterback Brett Favre.

"I (think) that what I have done in my nine-year career was just a glimpse of what I can do. So me being able to get the right things in place for me being able to succeed on the field is right here in New England."
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Post#2 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 1, 2007 3:41 pm

If you believe Moss would have made us a Super Bowl team and you're upset we didn't get him I won't argue. I disagree, but I can't argue that Moss would have been a nice addition had he 'put us over the top'.

But if you still think we're a couple years away from being among the elite and you still wanted Moss, that's where I would argue the value of a guy like Randy Moss. He's someone to add when you need that final piece.

But with a middle of the road QB and one of the youngest teams in the league, I don't see us being at an elite level for a couple more seasons. So we get Moss, a guy who hasn't been a good player for years, Favre retires after this season and now we're stuck with a known franchise killer and a first time QB at the helm.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
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Post#3 » by Neusch23 » Tue May 1, 2007 3:44 pm

I like the Ron Wolf quote of "if there is a guy you like, that you think can help your team, you go out and get him. Some times you over pay, but you can make up for it in other areas. The point is to get the guy you want".

That isn't word for word, but that was the gist of what he said...and he lived by that. Go back in time, how many of you would have given up a first round pick for a 3rd string QB that was drafted in the second round???

Now it looks like a great deal, but at the time???? We would have been screaming on here.

My guess is that our 4th rounder won't be in the league in a few years....

TT should have given the fourth on Saturday, and been done with it.

he also should have worked harder with the browns, and made a deal liek Jerry Jones made.

2 firsts next year, with the browns probably top 10 would have been very nice.

We still could have gotten a very good player, if not harrell with the browns number 2.
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Post#4 » by Neusch23 » Tue May 1, 2007 3:47 pm

DrugBust wrote:If you believe Moss would have made us a Super Bowl team and you're upset we didn't get him I won't argue. I disagree, but I can't argue that Moss would have been a nice addition had he 'put us over the top'.

But if you still think we're a couple years away from being among the elite and you still wanted Moss, that's where I would argue the value of a guy like Randy Moss. He's someone to add when you need that final piece.

But with a middle of the road QB and one of the youngest teams in the league, I don't see us being at an elite level for a couple more seasons. So we get Moss, a guy who hasn't been a good player for years, Favre retires after this season and now we're stuck with a known franchise killer and a first time QB at the helm.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.


DB, who says we have to keep him? I think that he would bring us to the playoffs next season.

I am not saying SB, but the playoffs, yes.

One player can make a huge difference on offense....Moss, I feel, could have been that guy.

Our D isn't horrible, and he would have helped us win games. I feel that since we wouldn't give up a 4th, we lost 3 wins next year because of it.

Now, if TT thinks that the player we got in the 4th will win us a lot of games in the future, than I will eat crow, but I don't see it, right now.
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Post#5 » by jviers77 » Tue May 1, 2007 3:52 pm

The more I hear about Ted, the less I like him. I think he's a good judge of talent, but I also believe he's too stubborn.

I don't want to see him making moves for the sake of making moves, but any chance there is to improve the team should be taken. We've got all that cap money, why not use some of it?

I strongly believe the reason a trade wasn't made on Saturday to move down a few spots and take Meechum is because Ted thought he had Moss in the green and gold. Now we have 3 new receivers who probably won't play at all this year.

In fact, I don't know if anybody we drafted will play this year, except for maybe Terrell, but who knows.
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Post#6 » by charlesbarkley » Tue May 1, 2007 4:07 pm

wasnt worth a fourth round pick, are you kidding me. i would trade harrell right now for moss. tt is a douchebag.
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Post#7 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 1, 2007 4:10 pm

You obviously think that Moss would be the missing piece. With our schedule coupled with Moss's recent performance, I don't see it.
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Post#8 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 1, 2007 4:18 pm

Also, from a McGinn chat:

Q: Did anyone take Ted Thompson to task for missing out on Randy Moss?

A: Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took him to task. One thing: Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I have talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing, the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.
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Post#9 » by Thunder Muscle » Tue May 1, 2007 5:14 pm

DrugBust wrote:Also, from a McGinn chat:

Q: Did anyone take Ted Thompson to task for missing out on Randy Moss?

A: Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took him to task. One thing: Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I have talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing, the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.


Says it all.
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Post#10 » by mnstinks » Tue May 1, 2007 5:21 pm

Screw Moss. This team wouldn't go to the Super Bowl this year with him, so we need to build this franchise with talent, as much as we can get.

TT's plan is to make this team competitive for years to come, not for one or two years.

You need to have forward thinking vision, I don't want the Packers to end up the Enron of pro football.

This age of the ADD Internet GM is really annoying.

It's the Green Bay PACKERS not the Green Bay Favre's.
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Post#11 » by Neusch23 » Tue May 1, 2007 5:50 pm

yeah, he lost a step...what he running the 40 in 3.9???

DB, read my post again. I never said he was the missing piece. I said he would win us at least 3 more games this season, and give us the best shot at the playoffs.

He is still a vertical guy....He is still fast. he will still draw a double team. he still opens things up for other players.

I would give him a shot for this year and next, then be done with him.

We are not talking about a long term player here. Just a guy to help us keep winning.

I don't think that TT is worried about winning this season. I think he is still building toward the future.

Before we know it in 2 years we are going to look like the bears....good D, no O....now that could get you to the super bowl, but you're not going to win.
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Post#12 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 1, 2007 6:13 pm

Neusch23 wrote:yeah, he lost a step...what he running the 40 in 3.9???

DB, read my post again. I never said he was the missing piece. I said he would win us at least 3 more games this season, and give us the best shot at the playoffs.

He is still a vertical guy....He is still fast. he will still draw a double team. he still opens things up for other players.

I would give him a shot for this year and next, then be done with him.

We are not talking about a long term player here. Just a guy to help us keep winning.

I don't think that TT is worried about winning this season. I think he is still building toward the future.

Before we know it in 2 years we are going to look like the bears....good D, no O....now that could get you to the super bowl, but you're not going to win.


There's where you and I seem to differ in philosophies.

I'm not concerned at all about short term winning at the expense of a long term goal.

A healthy and motivated Moss may help us win a few more games and sneak us into the playoffs. I think that's a pretty big leap to take given
his play in recent years and the way Favre has thrown the ball.

So sneaking in at 9-7 and getting bounced early doesn't really do it for me. I'd much rather we continue to add youth so when Favre is gone we have a lights out D, a strong running game and an efficient passing offense. Our schedule is going to be brutal this season. So loading up for a year to appease Favre doesn't make a whole lot of sense when we're probably looking at 6-10, 7-9 anyway.
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Post#13 » by th87 » Tue May 1, 2007 7:32 pm

Every year, a team comes out of nowhere and contends.

New Orleans went from one of the worst teams of the league, and, with the addition of Brees, Bush (though he only came on late in the season), and Colston, they got to the Super Bowl's doorstep.

So for those of you who say, "Oh, we wouldn't have won even with Moss," I'd say that you could never be sure. All you need is a couple of playmakers.

And I'd say that with Moss' 4.3 speed, Driver, Robinson, and Jennings could be open more often than not (if it worked out). Something like that is all it would've taken for us to beat the Rams, Bills, Saints, and possibly the Seahawks. Suddenly, we're looking at a 12-4 team. A similar result would occur this season. We would have won games that we'll probably normally lose.
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Post#14 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 1, 2007 7:52 pm

th87 wrote:Every year, a team comes out of nowhere and contends.

New Orleans went from one of the worst teams of the league, and, with the addition of Brees, Bush (though he only came on late in the season), and Colston, they got to the Super Bowl's doorstep.

So for those of you who say, "Oh, we wouldn't have won even with Moss," I'd say that you could never be sure. All you need is a couple of playmakers.


They added:

- an MVP caliber QB, top three in the league
- a healthy Deuce McAllister
- the best playmaker in the draft in Bush
- the steal of the draft in Marques Colston
- an All-Pro left tackle

That's a lot, the biggest being Brees. If Favre suddenly started playing like he did 10 years ago, then sure, I could believe a quick turnaround would be possible.

But he's been an average to below average QB for years.
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Post#15 » by El Duderino » Tue May 1, 2007 7:59 pm

I'm not concerned at all about short term winning at the expense of a long term goal.


How is a 4th round pick sacrificing the future for short term goals?You act like fans who wanted Moss were willing to trade our 1st,2nd,and 3rd round picks to get him.This talk that it would be risking the future is pure nonsense,we aren't talking about trading a lottery pick in the NBA for Drew Gooden.

A healthy and motivated Moss may help us win a few more games and sneak us into the playoffs.


If a 4th round cost helped the Packers make the playoffs,that would be a good thing.I know you believe that only winning the Super Bowl would constitute a worthy season,but that's where some fans don't agree with your thinking.Hell,even in the Packers run of great years they only won a ring once,but the winning seasons and playoff games were still very enjoyable.I can't see how anyone would see a playoff team this year as anything but a good thing.

If you believe Moss would have made us a Super Bowl team and you're upset we didn't get him I won't argue. I disagree, but I can't argue that Moss would have been a nice addition had he 'put us over the top'.


By that thinking,why ever add any veteran if he won't be a near lock to help make a Super Bowl.The Woodson signing had to be stupid since he was an expensive vet who "wouldn't put us over the top".No point in simply just making your team better with a vet or two and hoping to make the playoffs in a given year unless your coming off a 11-5 season.Not all moves have to put you over the top,making your team better is never a bad thing unless the cost is excessive.

So we get Moss, a guy who hasn't been a good player for years, Favre retires after this season and now we're stuck with a known franchise killer and a first time QB at the helm.


If Moss can still play and Favre retired after the season,the only negative i'd see with a Moss/Rodgers situation would be if Rodgers showed he isn't any good.If Rodgers can actually be a decent QB,him having a weapon at WR should help his development,not hurt it.
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Post#16 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 1, 2007 8:41 pm

El Duderino wrote:How is a 4th round pick sacrificing the future for short term goals?You act like fans who wanted Moss were willing to trade our 1st,2nd,and 3rd round picks to get him.This talk that it would be risking the future is pure nonsense,we aren't talking about trading a lottery pick in the NBA for Drew Gooden.


Adding the most notorious cancer in the NFL to the youngest team in the league may not have the greatest effect on the future of your franchise.

El Duderino wrote:If a 4th round cost helped the Packers make the playoffs,that would be a good thing.I know you believe that only winning the Super Bowl would constitute a worthy season,but that's where some fans don't agree with your thinking.Hell,even in the Packers run of great years they only won a ring once,but the winning seasons and playoff games were still very enjoyable.I can't see how anyone would see a playoff team this year as anything but a good thing.


I simply believe it to be short-sighted. Saying a Moss may help us make the playoffs is one thing. But for a team that was so bad for most of the year, I think it's highly unrealistic to believe it may happen. Had we finished the year beating multiple quality teams, I would say that we're close. But we were beating up on the Little Sisters of the Poor. The more likely scenario would be we sign Moss, he cuts into the development of our young WRs, he complains, we miss the playoffs, Favre retires and now we have a young coach, and 1st year QB and an expensive malcontent.

El Duderino wrote:By that thinking,why ever add any veteran if he won't be a near lock to help make a Super Bowl.The Woodson signing had to be stupid since he was an expensive vet who "wouldn't put us over the top".No point in simply just making your team better with a vet or two and hoping to make the playoffs in a given year unless your coming off a 11-5 season.Not all moves have to put you over the top,making your team better is never a bad thing unless the cost is excessive.


Well we didn't have a starting caliber 2nd CB, he was signed at the end of free agency to a ridiculously team friendly deal and he wasn't a threat to cancer the team. The Pats, Stealers and Colts were all teams built through the draft. They didn't go out and go nuts in free agency before winning the title. What's wrong with accumulating young talent and letting them form the foundation of our next championship team?

El Duderino wrote:If Moss can still play and Favre retired after the season,the only negative i'd see with a Moss/Rodgers situation would be if Rodgers showed he isn't any good.If Rodgers can actually be a decent QB,him having a weapon at WR should help his development,not hurt it.


That's assuming Moss is still a weapon. As McGinn pointed out, this isn't the Moss of old.
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Post#17 » by Siefer » Tue May 1, 2007 8:51 pm

It's really hard to say where Moss is really at physically, because he flat out tanked it in Oakland. Giving good effort on a solid team, I'd put good money he's still a top 10 WR. And I wanted a juice bar here in Wisconsin. :(
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Post#18 » by xTitan » Tue May 1, 2007 9:04 pm

get over Moss ...2 teams had very MILD interest in this idiot and if he'd come to GB he would have gone right to his cry baby ways because the Packers are nowhere near a Superbowl contender and he had ZERO chance of being the #1 receiver on this team. Moss is good for some fly patterns and jump balls, thats it, he is a coward who NEVER goes over the middle. Tom Brady is an extremely intelligent QB who has not believed in the "jump ball" type passes in the past because they are low percentage, more of a play favored by a "gun slinger" type QB is apt to do, a QB who is far less concerned about turning the ball over.
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Post#19 » by eagle13 » Wed May 2, 2007 1:50 am

Pretty much agree with Dude.

Seems some anti-Moss people use extremes to justify their position. Talk of reaching Superbowl, mortgaging the future, extreme cancer, no more impact, trade away future for old washed up vets, spend tons of money on old cancerous FAs.

I and most pro Moss people never said anything even remotely like that. Anti-Moss people use Bush tactics of exageration and mis-staement like its anti-patriotic or unsupportive of troops to be against the war. BS. If you have to mis-state or lie or put words in other people's mouth that they never said to prove your argument, your argument is weak.

I feel if we can use 3rd pick on Jones or Rouse then let's watch how much impact they make this year OR in their entire career? Will they make enough of a difference to reach the Super Bowl?

Guess this season will tell if Moss is still good enough to contribute. He is obviously not as great as he was but can he still perform well - to me that seems an obvious yes. And to those who say its only because Pats are good are again using smoke. Driver and Jennings are as good opposite him and opening field for him as Pats receivers.

And one cannot judge Brett this year without Moss compared to what he might have done with Moss. Big difference. Only someone dead set in not wanting to see can't see that. But we'll never know.

It's absolutely true that Moss would not have brought a Superbowl to GB. I for one would have enjoyed beating a few more teams and having a shot at the playoffs. But it
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Post#20 » by MajorDad » Wed May 2, 2007 5:13 am

moss had several workouts last month. in those work-outs , he was able to do a 40 several times under 4.3. this led to speculation that he must have either been hurt playing for oakland, or he was just plain out dogging it and helping them win that first pick in the draft ala bogut, and redd. he was playing bad last year to help out the team.

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