Is drafting "high character" guys important?

[Ayt]

I'm wondering what people think about this. Thompson has said he wants to draft "Packer people" and that he wants to focus more on getting good football players as opposed to the best athletes. I think it is a good idea for several reasons.

If you look at a team like the Bulls in the NBA, they have a very unique team. Pretty much everyone on that team loves to play basketball and they really don't have any knuckleheads. Paxson made a point when he was hired that he only wanted "winners" and hard workers. We all saw how they simply bought out Tim Thomas because they didn't want him around -- they're words, not mine -- and they shipped off JR Smith a few days after they got him in the Chandler trade. A large group of them also workout together during the offseason at the Berto Center. I think it is clear that the camaraderie and work ethic show up on the court.

In the Packers case, I've been very impressed with the rookies in the last two years.

Hawk is pretty much all about football, going so far as to have a hyperbolic chamber installed in his bedroom to heal his muscles more quickly so he can workout more. Jennings is about as mature and intelligent a guy as you'll find at a position that is often just about guys talking in the third person about how great they are. Colledge came all the way from a tiny town in Alaska to become a 4 year starter at Boise St. and a 2nd rounder. Spitz was a 4 year starter. Hodge was a three year starter and one of the most productive LB's in the country. Blackmon was a three year starter, and even switched to WR his last year to help the team.

This year, we have a team leader and guy that played through a very painful injury in Harrell. He's a rare DT with determination and a high motor. James Jones had a very tough life, but he got his **** together and became a workout warrior who played very tough on the field. All the scouting reports on Rouse talk about how great of a kid he is. Barbre was small school OL who actually was a gunner on the punt team. He's a freak athlete and sounds like the kind of kid who will work hard to become a good player. Korey Hall was dominant at Boise St. starting 52 games and played hurt. He played through a hernia in 2005 and fractured a vertebrae in spring drills in 2006 only to go on to win WAC DPOY and become a 2nd team All-American.

Anyway, having said all of that, I'm wondering if any of it matters. Do you need guys like the ones above, or do you go for the flashy guys who may have a higher ceiling but may also have more bust potential due to getting by on pure athleticism or by believing their own hype.

I tend to think you need to have high character guys in all sports so that the culture in the locker room and on the field is business like. Teams like that can more easily handle the occasional knucklehead because the overall team has strong characters. NE is the type of team that has had some serious leadership in guys like Brady, Troy Brown, Seymour, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Harrison, McGinest, Vrabel, etc. Without the leadership of all of those guys I'm don't think they have as much success even with everything else being equal.

On the Packers, I think Hawk and Jennings are locks to be leaders going forward. Kampy is a leader, and I think Harrell also seems like the kind of DL that will have a good influence. Is Barnett a leader? Tough to say, though the young LB's talked a lot about his influence on them last year in interviews. Al Harris is a standup guy, but he might not be around too much longer. Do you see anymore leaders on this team or do we still need to find more guys like that?

[MickeyDavis]

I do think you have to take character into consideration. Players react in different ways once they sign that first big contract. Past behavior doesn't always reflect future behavior, but often it does.

[eagle13]

I belive in chemistry. So I'm with you Ayt. Characters guys are much preferred and more reliable to give their all - all the time. Less likely to be distractions by hold outs or get in conflict with team-mates. All chemistry killers.

Having said that - once you have a solid core of leaders - a team can afford a little risk - ala Koren Robinson or In Pack of old case - Rison & Howard & Jackson were all not saintly but behaved with Farve, White, Butler, etc around.

[El Duderino]

High character is only an added bonus if the guy can actually play.Obviously if you aquire a bunch of thugs,you can end up like the Bengals last year.

One great thing about the NFL is no guaranteed contracts.Players either go out there and bust their ass,or they find themselves out of a job quick.Granted there are exceptions to this like Moss and other very high level talents,second and third chances are often afforded to potential greatness.

Of course if given the choice between a high or shaky character guy,you want the high character.Then again,if a cornerback is a swell guy who you would want your daughter to marry,that character won't help him catch a 4.3 WR if he runs 4.55.

[captain_cheapseats]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "high character" guys. If you mean the media definition, then no, I think it's useless. If you mean guys who always give 100%, then yes. That may not make sense, so I'll give a couple examples:

I think you should avoid drafting a guy like Ryan Leaf. He really never tried all that hard, either on the field or off it. In this way character matters, because you can never win with guys who don't care no matter how talented they are.

But the other hand, take a guy like "Meshawn" Johnson early in his career, who the media demonized as a locker-room cancer. He yelled at coaches, was clearly full of himself, and made frustrations with his team public. Yet he busts *ss on every play, has always been known as one of the best blocking WRs in football, is fearless going over the middle, plays very smart and generally will do anything to win. For guys like this, I don't think so-called "character" matters at all.

So that's it for me. I don't want guys who don't go all out. But as far as things like a player speaking his mind to the media, yelling at a coach on the sidelines when frustrated, smoking weed, etc. I just don't care.

[Ayt]

I mean guys who work very hard and are accountable to the team. Al Harris and DD pretty much went about their business, and let it be known they thought they deserved raises, but they certainly weren't distractions and didn't miss any time. Then you have a guy like Walker, who had one good year and two years left on his deal and he holds out.

In Keyshawn's case, he did have some run ins with coaches. He basically ended his time in TB by getting into an argument on the sidelines with Chuckie. I'd imagine he's mellowed since then, but you really can't have that kind of **** happen on your sideline. He was a very good player on the field, but it really is detrimental to the team concept to have guys blowing up like that for all to see; keep it in house. A young Keyshawn is not a guy you'd want around a young team, unless that team was led by a bunch of no-nonsense vets.

[paulpressey25]

I think to play well in the NFL you need to be smarter than in most other professional sports. Sure, there are some Randy Moss airheads that coast on natural talent, but if you go back and listen to the HOF's talk in interviews, almost every one of them comes across as pretty intelligent and mature. I don't always feel the same way when you hear MLB and NBA guys in interviews.

There is so much teamwork and training needed in the NFL compared to the other two major sports, if I were GM, I'd be big on the Wonderlic test. It wouldn't mean I'd bypass talented guys who scored lower, but I'd bypass super low scorers no matter how incredible their workouts were.

I remember that Javon Walker supposedly scored the lowest of any guy in the draft the year he came out. I somewhat kept waiting for that to show up, and while it didn't totally come out on the field, it did in that ridiculous holdout and sideshow he did with Drew Rosenhaus.......as much as Javon earned a new contract, he was not smart enough to realize what a mess he was causing and how bad he was hurting his PR. And it totally disrupted the team that year.

[captain_cheapseats]

In Keyshawn's case, he did have some run ins with coaches. He basically ended his time in TB by getting into an argument on the sidelines with Chuckie. I'd imagine he's mellowed since then, but you really can't have that kind of **** happen on your sideline. He was a very good player on the field, but it really is detrimental to the team concept to have guys blowing up like that for all to see; keep it in house. A young Keyshawn is not a guy you'd want around a young team, unless that team was led by a bunch of no-nonsense vets.

Was Keyshawn really any different the year he had run ins with Gruden, or was it just that the Bucs weren't winning, and a scape-goat was needed? Because when they were winning the year before, no one seemed to think Johnson was a problem at all. Then they start to lose, and suddenly he's a team cancer. It's funny how that works; there are never any bad character guys when a team is winning. Yet as soon as a team starts to lose, suddenly they are everywhere. Then they win, and they all disappear like magic. The reason of course being that the problems with a guy like Keyshawn are 100% hype, and nothing more.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Yep, it's definitely important to draft high character guys. Look at what our former first round pick is up to. It's a waste to draft someone who can't stay on the field. I wouldn't be surprised if Ahmad Carroll is suspended for the whole year.

AP - Jaguars defensive back Ahmad Carroll was arrested on weapon and drug charges early Saturday on suspicion of being involved in a disturbance with a weapon, authorities said.

The 23-year-old Carroll was questioned by police after he was pointed out as someone involved during a disturbance at an Atlanta restaurant, Atlanta police spokesman officer James Polite said

[Ayt]

-= original quote snipped =-



Was Keyshawn really any different the year he had run ins with Gruden, or was it just that the Bucs weren't winning, and a scape-goat was needed?

Because when they were winning the year before, no one seemed to think Johnson was a problem at all. Then they start to lose, and suddenly he's a team cancer. It's funny how that works; there are never any bad character guys when a team is winning. Yet as soon as a team starts to lose, suddenly they are everywhere. Then they win, and they all disappear like magic. The reason of course being that the problems with a guy like Keyshawn are 100% hype, and nothing more.

Hype created by whom exactly? It wasn't hype that made Keyshawn cross the line and scream at his coach on national TV only 10 games removed from the Super Bowl.

Its easy to understand why there are more issues with bad character guys when teams are losing. When you are winning, there is a lot less to bitch about. Once the team starts to lose consistently, the selfish guys who think they should be the coach chirp much more loudly, and sometimes even scream.

Instead of looking inward at what they could do to help the situation, they project blame outward, which only makes the situation worse. I know who I'd prefer to have next to me in the trenches.

[eagle13]

There is so much teamwork and training needed in the NFL compared to the other two major sports, if I were GM, I'd be big on the Wonderlic test. It wouldn't mean I'd bypass talented guys who scored lower, but I'd bypass super low scorers no matter how incredible their workouts were.

I agree for the most part. But PP you may want to run that by TT.

Jones had the lowest wonderlic of any WR in draft.
Barbre had a very low (single digit) wonderlic.
etc.

[captain_cheapseats]

Hype created by whom exactly? It wasn't hype that made Keyshawn cross the line and scream at his coach on national TV only 10 games removed from the Super Bowl.

I'm not saying hype caused him to yell, but rather that the yelling got over-hyped. For example: I live in the Boston area, and there have been a few times where Richard Seymour has gotten into it with the Pats coaching staff, which has been well documented by the local media. Yet somehow, the national media never bothers to pick up those stories, and all the hype is about how the Pats never have any internal issues, are all on the same page, etc., etc. But I guarantee you that if the Pats were to start losing, suddenly Seymour would go, overnight, from known as a high-character team leader to a Johnson style locker room cancer. A star player, on a hugely underachieving team, undermining the coaching staff. Think it might be a story then?

That's what I mean by hype; when teams are winning guys can do the exact same thing that gets someone on a team that is losing into a load of trouble. That's why I don't buy into this bad character stuff for guys who I see playing hard all the time, every time, like Johnson. Who knows what he is really like with the team vs. what the media decides to report he is like.

[paulpressey25]

-= Jones had the lowest wonderlic of any WR in draft.
Barbre had a very low (single digit) wonderlic.
etc.

I read that this morning...that was a concern. In the MJS article they were trying to relay Jones measurables with Sterling Sharpe, but they didn't put in Sharpe's Wonderlic. Is there a site that lists all past Wonderlic scores of NFL players?

[DelaneyRudd]

It is a consideration. Being in the position to be a pro athlete, make millions, have a great life and then do things that obviously jeopardize that shows a lack of dedication and a lack of intelligence. On the other hand it doesn't matter what your background, affiliations or beliefs are, people aren't drafted because they fit a narrow stereotype of what your market is supposed to be, as described by people who have never set foot there. (Know all too well about that being a Packer and Jazz fan)