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How good would some of the top rated QBs in this offense?

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How good would some of the top rated QBs in this offense? 

Post#1 » by deep throat » Mon May 14, 2007 5:53 pm

O-Line = (C-) You have a below average line. The line struggled against the pass rush so much that Franks was left in as an extra blocker more than he ever has.

TE = (D-) Franks is over the hill, he has gotten even slower -more of an extra blocker at this point. The rest; Lee, the other scrubs and the 7th round pick couldn't make most teams. Worst group in the league.

WR = (C) They are expecting a lot out of a 32 year old receiver with marginal speed and slight frame, but he has a great chemistry with Favre. Jennings looked good, hit a wall, then got hurt. Kind of reminds me of a young Driver. The rest have question marks-from Ferguson who has been a bust in recent years to Robinson who wont even be able to join the team until several games have already been played.

RB = (D) The Packers go into the season with- BJack, Morency, and some slugs that would have a hard time making it on a Arena League team. This is the worst and most inexperienced group in the NFL.

-------------------------------

Let's compare this with what some of the top QBs have;

(AFC 1st and 2nd finish)
Tom Brady

OL-Experienced solid line -1 Pro Bowler
RB- L. Maroney /K. Faulk
WR-Moss/Stallworth/Welker/Chad Jackson/Washington
TE-Ben Watson/Brady/DavidThomas

Peyton Manning

OL-Experienced solid line-2 pro Bowlers
RB-Addai
WR-Wayne/Harrison/A. Gonzalez rookie
TE- Dallas Clark


(NFC 1st and 2nd Finish)

Drew Brees

OL-Solid-1 Pro Bowler
RB-Deuce/Bush
WR-Colston/Henderson/Meachum-rookie
TE-Johnson/Campbell

Rex Grossman (NO NOT A TOP QB)

OL-One of the better OL- 2 Pro Bowlers
RB-Benson/Peterson
WR-Muhammed/Berrian
TE-Desmond Clark/Greg Olsen-rookie


Out of all 16 units mentioned the only one thePackers may be better at is the Bears WR-Driver/Jennings/& co. over Muhammed/Berrian/Bradley/Gates
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Post#2 » by Ayt » Mon May 14, 2007 6:07 pm

What wall did Jennings hit? He had four excellent games then got hurt against Miami and his production dropped off drastically.

Which is the real Jennings. The one who played extremely well before getting injured, or the Jennings that struggled with a high ankle sprain?
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Post#3 » by ReasonablySober » Mon May 14, 2007 6:21 pm

Our line gets a C-?

Two bookend tackles? Young, athletic guards that Brett Favre admittedly said he was excited about last December to Chris Mortenson?

So is it Scott Wells that brings the grade down so much? I thought he looked fine last year...?

WR gets a C?

How can you have a Pro-Bowl WR coming off the best season of his career and an NFL All-Rookie performer and get a C?

Runningbacks...I suppose you would have given the Pats, Jags and Colts a D last year as well. How did their runningback situation work out for them?

Tight end I won't argue.
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Post#4 » by eagle13 » Mon May 14, 2007 6:56 pm

DrugBust wrote:Our line gets a C-?

Two bookend tackles? Young, athletic guards that Brett Favre admittedly said he was excited about last December to Chris Mortenson?

So is it Scott Wells that brings the grade down so much? I thought he looked fine last year...?

WR gets a C?

How can you have a Pro-Bowl WR coming off the best season of his career and an NFL All-Rookie performer and get a C?

Runningbacks...I suppose you would have given the Pats, Jags and Colts a D last year as well. How did their runningback situation work out for them?

Tight end I won't argue.


RB - fact is no one knows. Its either hyped hoped or doom & gloom. But point is we're unproven compasred to others listed.

TE - everyone's in agreement here. I will mention West Coast O relies on TE more than some making us even worse.

OL - What did you want Brett to say - OLine sucks? GMs get defended for saying the "right" thing. We had almost no running game last year - that's why M3 called so many Brett passes. Pass rush required TE and/or FB stay in to help. OL was at best a C-. Potential = A. Last year reality = C- maybe lower. This year it depends on development. We'll be lucky to achieve a solid B.

WR - Driver is class! Jennings was truly impressive but did get hurt and performance did drop off. Will he recover? Will he have sophmore jinx? Will he be one year wonder? I expect Greg to be great. But there is 0 depth. Some posters use experts to validate thier opinions. Many experts felt Jones was a reach and SI.com listed PAck as one of cummiest drafts. I do not agree but so much for experts.

Deep Throat makes a VERY VALID POINT. Those who bash Brett are so full of ****.
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Post#5 » by xTitan » Mon May 14, 2007 7:13 pm

you grading scale absolutely sucks...Last year Tom Brady had absolutely NO talent at WR, he would have killed for a Driver or Jennings, yet he came within one half of the Superbowl.

That horrible offensive line kapt Favre upright most of the year, perhaps a little better accuracy on some of his throws and they may have won more games earlier in the season, it amazes me how so many can't see the King has holes in his clothes.
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Post#6 » by ReasonablySober » Mon May 14, 2007 7:26 pm

xTitan wrote:you grading scale absolutely sucks...Last year Tom Brady had absolutely NO talent at WR, he would have killed for a Driver or Jennings, yet he came within one half of the Superbowl.


That's my main problem with this thread.

We're going to compare rosters on what they might do this season?

If you want to compare anything, compare how they looked last year at this point to what actually transpired.
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Post#7 » by BuckPack » Mon May 14, 2007 7:28 pm

xTitan wrote:you grading scale absolutely sucks...Last year Tom Brady had absolutely NO talent at WR, he would have killed for a Driver or Jennings, yet he came within one half of the Superbowl.

That horrible offensive line kapt Favre upright most of the year, perhaps a little better accuracy on some of his throws and they may have won more games earlier in the season, it amazes me how so many can't see the King has holes in his clothes.


B/c the Pack went max protect nearly EVERY time Favre went back to pass--whether it meant keeping Franks or an RB in, the Packers almost never sent out more than 4 WRs, oftentimes just 3. IT wasn't just the o-line that kept Favre off his back....finally, Favre has ALWAYS been one of the hardest QBs in the NFL to sack. He gets the ball out fast, is elusive and smart in the pocket, and would rather risk a pick than take a sack, so he frequently forces the ball. So, don't bother telling me that the b/c he wasn't sacked very often, our o-line performed well. How'd our running game look last year? That's more indicative of our o-line's performance. I think a C- is low...C+ is probably accurate.

All in all, perhaps his grades are a bit low, but I don't think you guys watched the same offense if all you're trying to do is blame Favre for the team's offensive failures.

There's no question we have arguably the worst TE production in the NFL, and our WR left more than a little to be desired (many of you said we didn't even NEED to draft a WR a few months ago...while TT didn't end up getting Moss, he did "try" and he ended up drafting two WRs). So don't tell me how great our WR position is. At TE we probably have a grade of D, while WR is a B-, with a chance ot go higher depending on which Jennings shows up and if we can get any production at #3.

As for RB, there's also no debating that we have serious question marks there. Jackson was a starting RB in college for half a season and that's it. Noah Herron? blows. Morency? I like him, but don't think he's a featured back. Maybe Jackson will be somebody, but at this point, how can you say this position is settled? Too early to grade without seeing Jackson, but at this point, we're clearly outclassed against most of the NFC.

It always amazes me how people want to distill the offense's production, or lack of production, into an individual's, read Favre, failures. This is the ultimate team sport, and if you think that Favre's performance was not affected by the likes of Carlyle Holliday, Ruvell Martin, Noah Herron, Daryn Colledge etc, then you know nothing about football. When you are trying to develop prospects at WR, RB and the Oline, how the hell can you stand up and criticize Favre for not playing like those QBs in their prime?

Outside of Chicago, we have the least amount of offensive talent in the NFC north, yet we still have the BEST QB. Doesn't that bother you???
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Post#8 » by InsideOut » Mon May 14, 2007 8:19 pm

[quote="eagle13"][/quote]

So what is the point? If you give Favre a better than average line, better than average WRs and a great running game then he can produce? Well no kidding. Thing is he had that for 8 of the last 10 years (and 4 more before that) and did nothing with it. Sure, we would win 10 games and then he would throw a ton of INTs in the playoffs and we'd lose. So to summarize, don't surround him with better than average players on O and he can't do squat. Do surround him with better than average players on O and watch him throw pick after pick and cost us the playoffs. Loved the guy 10 years ago. He has been driving me crazy ever since. I would have loved to have seen Favre's last 10 seasons if Holmgren had stayed.
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Post#9 » by LUKE23 » Mon May 14, 2007 8:40 pm

Jennings didn't hit a wall, he got injured. Not much he could have done about that. He showed quite a bit last season and would have been a 1K WR without the injury. I'm excited about him.

We do not have a deep threat and that's what worries me. It sucks that Moss wasn't available for a 4th rounder and $3M.
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Post#10 » by ReasonablySober » Mon May 14, 2007 8:53 pm

BP, sorry, but saying Favre is the best QB in the North is like saying someone is the least (Please Use More Appropriate Word) kid on short bus.

Who cares who the best QB is? Like, you said, football is a team sport an no one individual is going to make or break a season.

Speaking of team, last season we had a Pro-Bowl WR and All-Rookie team WR. That position you have to consider solid. It's at least better than both Chicago and Minnesota.

The RB situation is a question mark, but what else could have been done? Green got a ridiculous long term deal, and both Lynch and Peterson were gone when our pick came around. So what did Thompson do? He drafted one in the 2nd round.

The TE position is also a huge question mark. Would Olson have filled a need? Yes. But he fell past a lot of teams that the experts had him pegged to go to. There were only three TEs taken on the first day. Here's how their best seasons rank with Harris's:

Olson: 40 catches, 489 yards, 1 TD
Miller: 50 catches, 484 yards, 4 TDs
Spaeth: 47 catches, 564 yards, 4 TDs
Harris: 53 catches, 725 yards, 5 TDs

Not bad, eh?

Hearing about how Favre doesn't get any help has gotten very old. He had the best line in football for a number of years, a Pro Bowl WR and TE and a legit top 3 or 4 back. Take a look at his playoff performances with that staff:

2001 vs St. Louis: 17-45; Favre with 6 INTs
2002 vs Atlanta: 2 INTs, 54 QB rating
2003 vs the Eagles: key INT to end the game
2004 vs Minnesota: 4 INTs, 55 QB rating

The fact that he's now in his late 30s and whining that he doesn't have a 'win-now' kind of squad is a joke.
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Post#11 » by Neusch23 » Mon May 14, 2007 9:28 pm

We have so many young players at each position right now I don't think that it is fair to judge them now before seeing how well they perform next year.

Brett may have more years than Guards, Center, RB, FB, 2nd and 3rd WR, TE all combined....

We are young. Lets see how hard they worked this offseason before we pass judgment.
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Post#12 » by BuckPack » Mon May 14, 2007 10:33 pm

DrugBust wrote:BP, sorry, but saying Favre is the best QB in the North is like saying someone is the least (Please Use More Appropriate Word) kid on short bus.

Who cares who the best QB is? Like, you said, football is a team sport an no one individual is going to make or break a season.
.


My point was that with an improvement on D (closing the gap b/w Chicago's D and ours) coupled with the best player in the conference at the most important position, may give us an opportunity to win the division. Favre won't make or break or season, but with a better surrounding cast, he would provide the difference in a very weak division. If our D can become a top 10 defense (and with all of the emphasis we've put on it in the last few years, it should be), then we should be in most of our games...in those games, I'd prefer to go to battle with Favre than Grossman, Jackson or Kitna, and that should give us an edge.

However, due to the talent disparity at the other positions, I'm not so sure (and the fact that Favre can't carry us anymore). Minny's RB's blow us out of the water; Detroit's WRs run circles around ours (the best trio in the NFL, IMO); Chicago's WR and TE corps is deeper and more talented than ours etc.


DrugBust wrote:Hearing about how Favre doesn't get any help has gotten very old. He had the best line in football for a number of years, a Pro Bowl WR and TE and a legit top 3 or 4 back. Take a look at his playoff performances with that staff:

2001 vs St. Louis: 17-45; Favre with 6 INTs
2002 vs Atlanta: 2 INTs, 54 QB rating
2003 vs the Eagles: key INT to end the game
2004 vs Minnesota: 4 INTs, 55 QB rating

The fact that he's now in his late 30s and whining that he doesn't have a 'win-now' kind of squad is a joke.



And hearing about how he's "lost it" is also getting old. For a guy wo shredded some pretty damn good defenses in Chicago (last game of the season) and miami and some solid defenses in New Orleans and San Fran ,he sure isn't as bad as advertised on this board. you poll GMs and scouts across the league and he's still a top 15 QB, regardless of what his past two year stats imply.

Favre is not and has not called for a "win now" at all costs squad. He's asked for some help, which I think he and the fan base deserve. DB, You know that I have never called out TT to spend money on marginal FAs and like you and others here, would very much prefer to build through the draft. But I don't think adding Moss would have sacrificed either of those goals. And that's where my disappointment lies--we could have continued to build through the draft-specifically on D, and then made a run at the playoffs next season, with his addition.

I thinnk we'll go 6-10 or 7-9 at this point. Hopefully, now that we have a solid foundation throughout our roster, TT will go into the 08 draft looking to add playmakers- packaging more picks to move up for higher value. Unfortunately, that may be too late for the best QB play we'll see around here for a long time.
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Post#13 » by deep throat » Mon May 14, 2007 11:08 pm

DrugBust wrote:Our line gets a C-?

Two bookend tackles? Young, athletic guards that Brett Favre admittedly said he was excited about last December to Chris Mortenson?

So is it Scott Wells that brings the grade down so much? I thought he looked fine last year...?

WR gets a C?

How can you have a Pro-Bowl WR coming off the best season of his career and an NFL All-Rookie performer and get a C?

Runningbacks...I suppose you would have given the Pats, Jags and Colts a D last year as well. How did their runningback situation work out for them?

Tight end I won't argue.


OL- Gets a C- That's average- Clifton and Tausch did not have great seasons-they are above average to average. The Guards stumbled as expected-beow average. The Center is ok.

Driver may have got 2nd string Pro Bowl honors, but he is still more of a 2. Jennings is a question mark. In comparison with the rest of the league-yes, they are average-about in the middle.

YOUR WAY OFF ON RB- The Pats and Colts had a much better prospects in one of the best RB drafts ever- Are you cmparing Maroney and Addai to brandon Jackson? Your nuts DB. Besides they had proven Vets like Corey Dillon and Dom Rhodes.
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Post#14 » by El Duderino » Mon May 14, 2007 11:11 pm

The TE position is also a huge question mark. Would Olson have filled a need? Yes. But he fell past a lot of teams that the experts had him pegged to go to. There were only three TEs taken on the first day. Here's how their best seasons rank with Harris's:

Olson: 40 catches, 489 yards, 1 TD
Miller: 50 catches, 484 yards, 4 TDs
Spaeth: 47 catches, 564 yards, 4 TDs
Harris: 53 catches, 725 yards, 5 TDs


And Anthony Davis piled up yards in college,there is a reason he wasn't a high draft pick and why Harris was nearly an undrafted free agent.College numbers don't always translate to NFL success.
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Post#15 » by deep throat » Mon May 14, 2007 11:17 pm

eagle13 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



RB - fact is no one knows. Its either hyped hoped or doom & gloom. But point is we're unproven compasred to others listed.

TE - everyone's in agreement here. I will mention West Coast O relies on TE more than some making us even worse.

OL - What did you want Brett to say - OLine sucks? GMs get defended for saying the "right" thing. We had almost no running game last year - that's why M3 called so many Brett passes. Pass rush required TE and/or FB stay in to help. OL was at best a C-. Potential = A. Last year reality = C- maybe lower. This year it depends on development. We'll be lucky to achieve a solid B.

WR - Driver is class! Jennings was truly impressive but did get hurt and performance did drop off. Will he recover? Will he have sophmore jinx? Will he be one year wonder? I expect Greg to be great. But there is 0 depth. Some posters use experts to validate thier opinions. Many experts felt Jones was a reach and SI.com listed PAck as one of cummiest drafts. I do not agree but so much for experts.

Deep Throat makes a VERY VALID POINT. Those who bash Brett are so full of ****.


They had a great analysis on this second (in-Bold) point on ESPN before the draft. The crew there said that Brett's Passer Rating was lower because he didn't have all his targets going out-the TE and FB had to stay back and help block (pick up the slack from the line). There was some smoke and mirrors going on with that last year.

I thought my grades were more than fair. The way DB seemingly wants to grade the team with B's or better we sure should have went out and spent money because they were/are a playoff team. Wait, he says they are no where near a playoff team and in rebuilding. huh? Oh I know why he is saying this-One of the thing he likes to say is how Brett SUCKS! Argues whatever fits his theory-didn't think this one through

DB, You can't have it both ways. You say this team isn't close to the playoffs (even n the weak NFC) and then say everyone is so good. "bookend tackles" "All-World Driver and Jennings is one of the best rookie WR in history of the NFL" "BJack and Morency are studs" LOL
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