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Moss thus far...

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Moss thus far... 

Post#1 » by BuckPack » Wed Jun 6, 2007 11:14 pm

Read Len Pasquarelli's article about Moss's performance in the Pats minicamp...he's been outstanding-and consistently flashing the Moss of old.

Here's a blurp that reflects the pre-Pats trade opinion of many on this board (obviously myself included)...

It seems as if Moss has tried hard to say all the right things. But it's obvious, too, that he has done all the right things.

During the first two days of minicamp, counting every warm-up and every drill, Moss had only one dropped pass. He has worked to assimilate the offense and to learn the different wide receiver positions, something that the mix-and-match Belichick style demands. And the New England brain trust remains as convinced now as it was the day it acquired Moss that his drop-off in production over the past three years is far more reflective of the situation he was in than an erosion of his physical skills.

Moss hinted, after Wednesday's practice, that he agrees with that assessment.

"The football side of not winning," he said, had a lot to do with the last three seasons. "Winning brings a lot of joy. And with losing comes a lot of sorrow. Hopefully, we can all come together here, me included, and win a lot of games."


Sure doesn't sound like or look like the malcontent that many here made him out to be...TT will rue the day he got too greedy with a 4th round pick.[/quote]
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Post#2 » by Neusch23 » Thu Jun 7, 2007 12:41 am

was this all TT or did the board have a say in this??

Either way, I am a firm believer that us not landing moss will cost us the playoffs for next season.....which will be a long season.
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Post#3 » by DigitalFool » Thu Jun 7, 2007 3:22 am

I hope we don't have to hear the 'what if's' all season regarding Moss - if he flops we would have the 'told you so' pundits arguing he would have done no good on our young team, but be successful in poisoning the team and bringing the negative attitude on a weekly basis. If he has a pro bowl or Moss of old flashback, some would be calling for people's heads as this would have been the 'missing link' to a successful season making a playoff push.

I mean really, how are we to know...I think the fact is, there is no way we can evaluate how Moss does at NE and translate it to the Packers as 'what if'. We have what we have, let us move forward with it as Packer fans. I can't imagine staring over my shoulder all season by evaulating on how Moss did week in and week out...Go PACKERS!!
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Post#4 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jun 7, 2007 3:16 pm

Like many have said, the NE and Packers situations are 100% different. How Moss does in NE has absolutely no relevance on how he would have done in GB.
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Post#5 » by BuckPack » Thu Jun 7, 2007 4:08 pm

DigitalFool wrote:I hope we don't have to hear the 'what if's' all season regarding Moss - if he flops we would have the 'told you so' pundits arguing he would have done no good on our young team, but be successful in poisoning the team and bringing the negative attitude on a weekly basis. If he has a pro bowl or Moss of old flashback, some would be calling for people's heads as this would have been the 'missing link' to a successful season making a playoff push.

I mean really, how are we to know...I think the fact is, there is no way we can evaluate how Moss does at NE and translate it to the Packers as 'what if'. We have what we have, let us move forward with it as Packer fans. I can't imagine staring over my shoulder all season by evaulating on how Moss did week in and week out...Go PACKERS!!


Sorry, but I'll prolly revisit this if we demonstrate glaring errors/needs in the passing game and Randy Moss explodes in NE, but I'm not going to pound away at it weekly. Sure, you can say that the situations are incomparable, but I'd disagree and say that you're ignoring a LOT of other factors that are motivating Randy. Conversely, if Randy falls apart and we get some big time production out of Jones, Ferguson, Robinson and Martin then I have no problem pointing that out as well.

We've gotten into this argument far too often on this board, and I agree we have what we have, so I'm not going to revisit this frequently and post threads ad nauseum about Moss in NE. However, I, like most packer fans, will be keeping a wayward eye on Moss in NE and I see no problem commenting on his performance (or lack thereof) from time to time.
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Post#6 » by BuckPack » Thu Jun 7, 2007 4:17 pm

DrugBust wrote:Like many have said, the NE and Packers situations are 100% different. How Moss does in NE has absolutely no relevance on how he would have done in GB.


i disagree. sure NE is a better "fit" but I don't think you'd see the Oakland Moss in GB--in fact, the very FACT that he wanted to come to GB shows that he realized they were different situations and would therefore act differently.

If he does well in NE, I think it would be shortsighted to attribute all of his "growth" to NE's influence. There are far more motivating factors propelling Randy to change than just those related to NE (namely $$).

I don't want to get into this argument again, but I will emphasize, as I did before, that it'd be foolhardy to think that Moss would ONLY change in NE. The guy wants to continue playing football (most improtantly, getting paid big dollars to continue playing football), and if he had another season comparable to Oakland 2006, I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd be out of football in a year. That's motivation to change. And that's not exclusive to NE. Sure there are more aspects of NE to help keep him in line, but ultimately it's up to Randy and Randy alone to decide to change--I think he'd listen more to his pocketbook than Teddy Bruschi, but maybe i'm just a bit more pessimistic about professional athletes.
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Post#7 » by deep throat » Thu Jun 7, 2007 9:34 pm

BuckPack wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



i disagree. sure NE is a better "fit" but I don't think you'd see the Oakland Moss in GB--in fact, the very FACT that he wanted to come to GB shows that he realized they were different situations and would therefore act differently.

If he does well in NE, I think it would be shortsighted to attribute all of his "growth" to NE's influence. There are far more motivating factors propelling Randy to change than just those related to NE (namely $$).

I don't want to get into this argument again, but I will emphasize, as I did before, that it'd be foolhardy to think that Moss would ONLY change in NE. The guy wants to continue playing football (most improtantly, getting paid big dollars to continue playing football), and if he had another season comparable to Oakland 2006, I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd be out of football in a year. That's motivation to change. And that's not exclusive to NE. Sure there are more aspects of NE to help keep him in line, but ultimately it's up to Randy and Randy alone to decide to change--I think he'd listen more to his pocketbook than Teddy Bruschi, but maybe i'm just a bit more pessimistic about professional athletes.


BP, Your 100% right on the $. A couple of people on here just don't get it no matter how many facts, and logical arguements you make. It wouldn't even matter if the long running QB of this team made a public statement in favor of Moss (oh ya that happened already), but some 20 something year old kid from bumble **** Wisconsin has it all figured out.

Keep up your great Packer posts (hope things are going well in NY). Heard you almost had a scare at JFK.
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Post#8 » by Neusch23 » Thu Jun 7, 2007 9:46 pm

DrugBust wrote:How Moss does in NE has absolutely no relevance on how he would have done in GB.


I can't DISAGREE with this statement more than any statement ever made on this board.
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Post#9 » by Ayt » Thu Jun 7, 2007 9:58 pm

I expect him to have a huge year yet I don't care that he's not in GB. Actually, the funny thing is Moss himself talks specifically about his motivation. From the OP:

And the New England brain trust remains as convinced now as it was the day it acquired Moss that his drop-off in production over the past three years is far more reflective of the situation he was in than an erosion of his physical skills.

Moss hinted, after Wednesday's practice, that he agrees with that assessment.

"The football side of not winning," he said, had a lot to do with the last three seasons. "Winning brings a lot of joy. And with losing comes a lot of sorrow. Hopefully, we can all come together here, me included, and win a lot of games."


If he came to the Packers and they again missed the playoffs -- likely given our schedule even with Moss -- I'm sure he'd be just as shiny and happy as he will be on a 13-14 win, SB favorite like NE. :roll:
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Post#10 » by DigitalFool » Thu Jun 7, 2007 10:35 pm

My main point was 'I' am over the Moss talk and 'what if's' that will undermine the Packers current status. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even the 20 year old bumble **** Wisconsinite what DT so eloquently mentioned in his post.

Again, we can't translate his production from NE to the Packers. I for one, did want Moss because of his 'threat' that he would keep defenses honest, even if he wasn't Moss of old. BUT AGAIN, I don't want to beat a dead horse about whether or not he is good or bad in NE.

Let's just talk about Favre and his INT record :)
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Post#11 » by Thunder Muscle » Thu Jun 7, 2007 11:21 pm

T.O. was brilliant for Philly at first too. Hell, even Moss started out with Oakland with some big plays. Its early. We'll see how it turns out long term.
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Post#12 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Jun 8, 2007 3:20 pm

Ayt wrote:I expect him to have a huge year yet I don't care that he's not in GB. Actually, the funny thing is Moss himself talks specifically about his motivation. From the OP:

And the New England brain trust remains as convinced now as it was the day it acquired Moss that his drop-off in production over the past three years is far more reflective of the situation he was in than an erosion of his physical skills.

Moss hinted, after Wednesday's practice, that he agrees with that assessment.

"The football side of not winning," he said, had a lot to do with the last three seasons. "Winning brings a lot of joy. And with losing comes a lot of sorrow. Hopefully, we can all come together here, me included, and win a lot of games."


If he came to the Packers and they again missed the playoffs -- likely given our schedule even with Moss -- I'm sure he'd be just as shiny and happy as he will be on a 13-14 win, SB favorite like NE. :roll:


Yup, from the horses mouth.

Our schedule likely means a 6-10 finish. Maybe we run into a couple teams facing injuries at the right time and we finish 8-8, but I doubt it. I don't know anyone who thought we were as good as our record last year. Anyone else think we were as good as St. Louis, Carolina, Denver, Jacksonville, Cinci or Pittsburgh?

I think if you added even the best WR in the NFL it wouldn't translate to 3 more wins, like some here have said. I don't even know if it would mean 1 more win. It didn't happen when TO went to Philly or Dallas and he played incredible. So why people think the Moss of now would be some magic elixer is baffling.

He just said that a winning environment is what will motivate him. When the Packers don't win, doesn't that mean he isn't going to be motivated?
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Post#13 » by LeopoldStotch » Fri Jun 8, 2007 5:56 pm

I think we have to take a wait and see approach with Moss. Plenty of guys can light it up in shorts. Obviously, this guy is more talented than most, but there's a reason 2 franchises have given up on this dude already.

NE is taking quite a risk bringing him in. Granted, winning heals all problems, but if for some reason they're not as good as everyone thinks, they could regret bringing this guy on board.

Yes, the Packers didn't have much to lose in bringing him in, but it would've stunted the growth of our young WRs. It's not like Moss puts us in the super bowl (or even the playoffs necessarily), so what's the point?
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Post#14 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Jun 8, 2007 6:05 pm

LeopoldStotch wrote:I think we have to take a wait and see approach with Moss. Plenty of guys can light it up in shorts. Obviously, this guy is more talented than most, but there's a reason 2 franchises have given up on this dude already.

NE is taking quite a risk bringing him in. Granted, winning heals all problems, but if for some reason they're not as good as everyone thinks, they could regret bringing this guy on board.

Yes, the Packers didn't have much to lose in bringing him in, but it would've stunted the growth of our young WRs. It's not like Moss puts us in the super bowl (or even the playoffs necessarily), so what's the point?


Uh-oh. Cue the "Brett Favre deserves better!" folks.
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Post#15 » by th87 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:26 am

Right - what's the point in even playing any of the games? We already know we'll suck. Let's just put the season through a simulator and reload for next season.
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Post#16 » by Thunder Muscle » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:24 pm

Randy Moss: Playing When He Wants to Play?
RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com
Tuesday, June 12, 2007

Update: Though Moss mostly said the right things upon his arrival to the Patriots and did make a few nice catches while on display at minicamp, there has been some criticism that the wideout went less than all out during the team's recent workouts, the Boston Herald reports.

Recommendation: Be it giving the impression that he was gliding at times or his less than stellar performance in wind-sprints, he didn't exactly dazzle onlookers while under the microscope. That said, minicamp is not supposed to be an all-out affair and Moss can earn some redemption with a strong straining camp. Until then, the jury is still out on whether he can regain his all-world form in his new, seemingly-ideal situation.
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Post#17 » by mbucks22 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:57 pm

th87 wrote:Right - what's the point in even playing any of the games? We already know we'll suck. Let's just put the season through a simulator and reload for next season.


Yeah I love DrugBust's "well NO MATTER WHAT we will at best be 6-10" BS. Did you somehow go into the future or look through a crystal ball? No you didn't. Just because we have to play San Diego and teh almighty Kansas City (what the hell have they done recently?) doesn't mean we can't beat them.
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Post#18 » by El Duderino » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:25 am

Our schedule likely means a 6-10 finish.


So you feel we should finish 6-10 and then once Favre leaves we get to go through the Rodgers learning curve,likely more losing football even.

I miss the days of Ron Wolf where sitting around and accepting long bouts of losing and/or unimportant football games wasn't how he thought or operated.
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Post#19 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:17 pm

What the hell, I haven't had a football debate in a while...

So you guys have never looked at a schedule before the season started and projected your likely wins and losses?

I look at our schedule and I see six games against playoff teams from last season. Not only that, but I see four games against 8-8 teams that barely missed the playoffs. Teams that were better than their record, unlike the Packers, a team that was significantly worse than its record in my opinion.

I think the bolded games we win:

Philly
@ NY Giants
San Diego
@ Minnesota
Chocago
Washington
@ Denver
@ KC
Minnesota
Carolina
@ Detroit
Dallas
Oakland
@ St. Louis
@ Chicago
Detroit

It's only my opinion, but I see a 5-11 team. I think the four game winning streak to end the season last year masked a team that really wasn't any good, and their play against good teams reflected that. This year we could be looking at a 2-6 record at the halfway point.

So then you ask yourself if adding Moss changes our record that much. Well, look at TO. He's been a hell of a lot better than Moss the last few seasons. His teams didn't do any better in the standings when he got to Philly or Dallas. If he's not making a dent in the standings on his new teams, why are we to think Moss will? And it's not as if we're devoid of WRs like Philly was when TO got there. Driver and Jennings are better than the combo Dallas put out there the year before Owens got there. If adding a talented WR makes such a huge difference, it should have showed up in the win and loss column.

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