Don't OVERweight these pre-season games

[deep throat]

It works both ways too -When the O couldn't do a thing against the Steelers starters people were predicting total gloom and doom. Now that they spanked the Seahwaks I am seeing people talking Super Bowl. try to keep in mind this is pre-season teams accross the league have been holding back their starters for these first two game smore than before. The Packers have looked awful at times in game 1 and great at times in game 2. Just try and remember this is preseason and don't put so much stock in it. If I'm not mistaken I think the Raiders won all their preseason games a year ago.

Some quick hitters:

Atari Bigby- He looked horendous in coverage and tackling in the first game. In the second game he was Butleresque in the way he got to the QB. I still would like to see him wrap up tackle in the open field and apply tight coverage. The jury is out, all we know now is he at least could be a great situational S rusher.

James Jones- He has looked solid in both games. He isn't going to get a lot of seperation, but he seems to have a knack for getting the ball with the DB right on him (as Ted had said).

Jennings- I see a lot of worry here-Relax, they are trying to give JJ some time and have given him some reps at SE. He will be fine, they know what they have in him.

BJackson-Still looks like the blocking part is a problem, but getting better. About what I thought-A solid inside runner with natural instincts. People are comparing him to a young Ahman-not even close-doesn't have the extra gear, and has a different running style. He's actually a little less stiff -an advantage over Green.

Jenkins-Without question the star of the defense so far. Just man handling anyone in front of him. If he stays healthy he could make a bid for the Pro Bowl. Getting the starting nod and a new contract has boosted his confidence.

Crosby- Looks like they may have got a steal. Although Longwell was a concistent Kicker his kickoffs were not up to par. This guy looks like he has plenty of leg to get it to the end zone on a regular basis. Rayner is not bad, and will probably catch on with someone else.

[ssssssnake]

I've been talking good about the Packers through the off season and after the Steeler game. I think you and most people are dead wrong on your views of this team. Don't get overhyped with one game but there are patterns that go back past this one game that are readable IMO. I've gone through at other forums (packerrats mostly) reasons why I think this team is going to be playoff competitive more than I care to do it again. This team is good. They will be a team to reckon with in the NFC.

[deep throat]

I've been talking good about the Packers through the off season and after the Steeler game. I think you and most people are dead wrong on your views of this team. Don't get overhyped with one game but there are patterns that go back past this one game that are readable IMO. I've gone through at other forums (packerrats mostly) reasons why I think this team is going to be playoff competitive more than I care to do it again. This team is good. They will be a team to reckon with in the NFC.

It's not about talking good or bad about the Pack, any fan wants them to do well. The thing I am saying is don't put too much stock into a preseason game. I think it gives you an idea on some players, but I don't know how much of a gauge this really can give you on the regular season. Often times teams that go undefeated in the regular season turn out to such once the regualr season begins and the regulars are in for the whole game (and vice versa).


A year ago they didn't beat one team with a .500 or better record (except the Bears in the finally where it meant 0 to the Bears).

When they did play +.500 teams they went:

0-23 Bears
9-31 Eagles
0-35 Pats
24-34 Seahawks
10-38 Jets

They gave up big play after big play, and struggled on offense. In game 1 against the Steelers starters they gave up big plays and failed to do anything on offense. Then they went against a couple of bad backup QBs and backup Tackles and we are supposed to think we're a bonafide Playoff team? Maybe they are, but you need to see more to say that with any kind of credibility. It was encouraging to see that Saturday, I'm just saying be a bit cautious with the optimism (or negativity for that matter).

[ReasonablySober]

In the preseason I look at individual matchups more than anything.

For example...

Jenkins and our line looked pretty damn good on Saturday night. But Seattle was playing their backup tackles and backup QB. You would hope that our front seven would manhandle them.

Hawk's sack was great. But that wasn't Mack Strong he bowled over, it was his backup.

Bigbie got into the backfield against backups. You like the explosiveness and athleticism, but a veteran probably picks him up.

Conversely, Jones went up and got the ball over Marcus Trufant, probably a top 5 CB in the NFC. He turned around last years' first round pick, Kelly Jennings. You can take positive things out of the game he played.

Rodgers as well. He was putting the football in places that he should. Outside and up on the out to Holiday. High and over the shoulder on the 32 yarder to Jones. Low and in a place Jennings couldn't get to it on the TD to Jones.

If you want to take things out of the preseason, look to specific plays and the opposition on the field at the time.

[paulpressey25]

Won-Loss records in the pre-season are meaningless......but even more than players, the play of units can tell you something.

I can't remember a time when our defense looked that dominant as it did Saturday night....regular season or pre-season. And they looked pretty good the week before against Pittsburgh.

I agree that the Packers last year really weren't as good as their 8-8 record reflected.....but this year the team has matured another year and added some nice pieces in the draft. It's a stronger squad.

I think back to that Bears team two years ago that did really well with essentially Kyle Orton at QB and few weapons on offense. I think the Packers could maybe approach that level this year.

Given how poor the team has played the past few seasons, I'll take that level of success and celebrate it.

[mbucks22]

I've been talking good about the Packers through the off season and after the Steeler game. I think you and most people are dead wrong on your views of this team. Don't get overhyped with one game but there are patterns that go back past this one game that are readable IMO. I've gone through at other forums (packerrats mostly) reasons why I think this team is going to be playoff competitive more than I care to do it again. This team is good. They will be a team to reckon with in the NFC.

It's not about talking good or bad about the Pack, any fan wants them to do well. The thing I am saying is don't put too much stock into a preseason game. I think it gives you an idea on some players, but I don't know how much of a gauge this really can give you on the regular season. Often times teams that go undefeated in the regular season turn out to such once the regualr season begins and the regulars are in for the whole game (and vice versa).


A year ago they didn't beat one team with a .500 or better record (except the Bears in the finally where it meant 0 to the Bears).

When they did play +.500 teams they went:

0-23 Bears
9-31 Eagles
0-35 Pats
24-34 Seahawks
10-38 Jets

They gave up big play after big play, and struggled on offense. In game 1 against the Steelers starters they gave up big plays and failed to do anything on offense. Then they went against a couple of bad backup QBs and backup Tackles and we are supposed to think we're a bonafide Playoff team? Maybe they are, but you need to see more to say that with any kind of credibility. It was encouraging to see that Saturday, I'm just saying be a bit cautious with the optimism (or negativity for that matter).

If I remember correctly, they only gave up a few big plays. The rest of the time they dominated the Steelers starters.

And those blowout losses last season are understandable. Going up against much more experienced teams versus a team full of guys learning a new system. Anyone that thought we would win any of those was nuts.

However, this year I can see us being in/having a chance to win some, if not all, of those kinds of games seeing as how those same guys from a year ago have matured and know the system sooo much more.

[ssssssnake]

Deepthroat, it has nothing to do with being a fan or being optimistic. I've been negative about the Packers for the last two years. I think they have things that should be improved this year based on what happened last season and the good offseason everyone had.


- Manuel is a slower SS to begin with and he was unable to run or train all last year. He was a new member to a new system and the CB's he worked with skipped all off season workouts. I think there is reason to believe we saw the absolute worste of Manuel last year and we should see a better player this year.

- Everyone other than Pickett came into camp in great shape. I believe games are won and lost in the off season as much as they are during the season so seeing such a high participation in off season workouts made me thing guys who could get better did and guys who are already good kept themeselves together

- The Oline looked like they had potential last year and the followed that potential up with busting their asses in the off season

- Hawk, Poppinga and Barnett should all be more comfortable in the defense. Hawk and Poppinga should both be stronger.

- Collins should be better

- Whoever the nickle back is should be more experienced or better

- John Jolly has been very strong in camp

- Cory Williams is in great shape

- WE have a better P and K



I could go on and on. We were the youngest team in the league and we showed potential. The youngest team probably has the most room to grow if they work at it. They did work at it. Favre is still the QB. Now everythign that a person could have predicted is coming true and people act like it's a suprise. It has nothing to do with being a fan. I beleive in being real before being blindly loyal. The reality is that I thought this team had a chance to take a huge step going into the offseason. The hard work we read about made it seem more real. The improvements spoke about by the players and coaches made it even more real and now the preseason is doing the same. YOu act suprised, but I think it's your inablity to see the meaningfull patterns and the fact that you summarize the last two years and somehow think you have the answers to this year.

[El Duderino]

What i got from the two games so far

1.We got a very tough to deal with front seven.No question that if Seattle had Walter Jones in the game and their starting RT,we wouldn't have destroyed their offensive line like that,but the Packers will be able to get to the QB.Not every team in the NFL could have eaten alive the offensive line vs Seattle like we did,even with their tackles out.

2.Rodgers just looks like a different QB this year.Playing with the poise of a guy who knows the system inside out and one who isn't overthinking instead of just playing.

3.We'll see how much impact Jones has as a rookie when the real games start,but those who stressed that Thompson "reached" by using a third round choice there can put away those fears.

4.Jackson and the running game is still a big question mark.

5.I like much better the depth/quality of the young corners fighting to get nickel and dime roles.They are all largely young and inexperienced kids,but i see skill and athletic ability needed to play corner.I'm sure some growing pains will comes with this,but guys like Bush/Blackmon inspire more hope for me than Carroll/Dendy did.

6.I'm not sure yet how Bigby will function in coverage,but i can't fathom a scenario of him not being an upgrade over Manuel.

7.Special teams look better,but then again it would be hard for them not to after last years debacle.

[LUKE23]

To me right now, I see every position on this team as a wash or better than last season outside of RB (which could be comparable but time will tell).

DL: Jenkins over KGB is a massive upgrade because of his versatility, being able to stop the run and also get to the QB. It also maximizes KGB's ability by keeping him fresh. The rest of the DL is still young so dropoff should be minimal and we are maybe the deepest team in the NFL at quality DT's.

LB: Barnett should be about the same, Hawk will definitely see an improved year in his second season and knowing the scheme, and Poppinga is now two years removed from his surgery, which is usually the first year where players really look 100% again.

S: Collins should be better this season than last, and Bigby, while having issues in coverage, is much more athletic and physical than Manuel. His speed alone should be an upgrade.

DB: I don't see any dropoff from the starters here, since neithers game is based on blazing speed. I do feel the nickel spots are in better shape than last season with Bush, Blackmon, Dendy. We're young at nickel, but good competition there.

OL: Obviously given the youth of this position, it should be better this season. When you also add in the fact that Clifton FINALLY appears healthy and Tausher said he feels as good as he has, this should be a pretty solid line. Not dominating, but better than last year with its second year in the scheme.

QB: This one will probably be up for debate, but I see Favre having a better TD/INT ratio this year than last. Reason for that is that I think the D puts him in more favorable field position situations where he has to take less chances. I could see a 19 TD/12 INT season or something like that. This is at worst a wash with last season.

RB: Huge question mark, since none of the guys have ever done anything in the NFL. Jackson appears to have some talent, but this is a position where everything remains to be seen.

WR: Driver should be the same level talent with no dropoff, and Jennings should give us more production than last year given that he's healthy and it's his second year. Jones is probably a better #3 than anything we had last season, although he has to show it in regular season games. I'm comfortable with our WR's.

TE: If Franks is any worse than last season, he should be cut immediately. He was abysmal. Poor hands and no red zone production whatsoever. He can't be any worse. Lee gives a speed option at the position.


Maybe a little optimistic, but I don't see anything outlandish about my analysis. This team is quite a bit stronger than it was last year given health, young players improving, and position changes. Really think the next step for this team is adding some real playmakers on the offensive side of the ball next year in draft or FA (knowing TT most likely draft). The defense, outside of maybe adding another stud corner is looking set for a while.

[deep throat]

You guys are making good intellegent comments. I am speaking more to the people who are so reactionary -"they suck" then "Super Bowl"

sssnakke, I have no confidence in Manuel and would not be surprsied if he is cut. He was never more than a slow backup.

EVERYONE WAS IN GREAT SHAPE EXCEPT PICKETT? Jolly was not in great shape, talk that Jennings wasn't as ready, DeShawn Wynn was not in great shape, Morency was said to treat the off-season light, Harrell was not as far along as thought, etc. Last year guys were in shape. I will give you this -it was a young team and they should be improved-obviously, but to say they are in so much better shape -what is your basis for that turn around. Woodson and Harris do their own thing, fat guys like Pickett still out of shape, etc.

Hawk, Poppinga and Barnett should all be more comfortable in the defense. Hawk and Poppinga should both be stronger. -Good point. That was a new tandem of LBs last year. They should look much better this year.

[paulpressey25]

Another factor that bodes well is this is Mike McCarthy's second year. He seems much more comfortable with what he is doing.

Who knows if he's the answer, but going 8-8 in year one is a good sign.

Long live David Puddy in Green Bay !

[Ayt]

You guys are making good intellegent comments. I am speaking more to the people who are so reactionary -"they suck" then "Super Bowl"

sssnakke, I have no confidence in Manuel and would not be surprsied if he is cut. He was never more than a slow backup.

EVERYONE WAS IN GREAT SHAPE EXCEPT PICKETT? Jolly was not in great shape, talk that Jennings wasn't as ready, DeShawn Wynn was not in great shape, Morency was said to treat the off-season light, Harrell was not as far along as thought, etc. Last year guys were in shape. I will give you this -it was a young team and they should be improved-obviously, but to say they are in so much better shape -what is your basis for that turn around. Woodson and Harris do their own thing, fat guys like Pickett still out of shape, etc.

Hawk, Poppinga and Barnett should all be more comfortable in the defense. Hawk and Poppinga should both be stronger. -Good point. That was a new tandem of LBs last year. They should look much better this year.

Actually, Morency worked his ass off this summer according to the coaching staff. Its too bad he got injured. I think people would feel a lot more comfortable with the running game if we had him out there with the #1's instead of a rookie learning on the fly.