Post game thoughts - Week 1 - Eagles

Post #1 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:25 am

So I was very skeptical of the defense coming into the season. Yes, on paper you would think that this could be a great unit and the obvious strength of the team. However, you looked at the results when they played even average offenses last season you saw that the Packers got blown out of the water. So the lip service they got this offseason and preseason meant little to me. Call me a natural skeptic, but I wanted to see them in action against a quality opponent before crowning them.

Color me convinced. That defensive line is simply ridiculous. I'm trying to think of a line I'd trade them for and I honestly can't come up with one. They're all big, tough and active. I love the depth. Coming into the season nobody could have predicted that Jolly would improve so much or that Jenkins could make such a seamless transition to end. I understand he finished the season there but he looks like a natural at the spot. My only concern is on sweeps and tosses. You saw it a couple times in today's game; he's not the quickest guy when he has to go lateral and he's below average at getting to a quick back that wants to get to the outside. Still, I'll take that if he can continue to be such a disruptive pass rusher and run stuffer. Jolly is everything the coaching staff said he was. Three passes knocked down and tough up the middle. Williams had a nice sack and like KGB, he'll benefit from only having to play on passing downs. Speaking of passing downs, that line of KGB, Jenkins, Williams and Kampman is going to absolutely terrorize QB's this year. I mean, holy hell. A huge key to a dominant D is being able to pressure the QB without having to blitz; that line can do it.

I liked what I saw out of Bigby as well. He'll give up his share of pass plays due to inexperience but he's not Marquand Manuel. No way does Manuel get to that deep ball in the second half. That's probably a TD if this is last year. But Bigby got there and broke up the pass. That was a very welcome sight.

Great game by Barnett. Westbrook couldn't go anywhere without Nick hovering around him. The fact that we have a middle linebacker athletic enough to shadow one of the quickest backs in the league is huge. Also, credit the coaching staff for putting together a gameplan that neutralized the guy that McNabb said could rush for 2000 yards this season.

I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to Collins, the starting corners or the other two linebackers. I was too in awe of that D-line.

Offensively, it was ugly as hell. When the best play of the game was a shovel pass on a broken play, you know that there were issues. Nobody looked particularly good. The line wasn't opening any holes and Favre was on his ass a lot of the game.

He amazes me. He got absolutely smoked on a number of plays. One I had to laugh about; Kearse and another lineman took him down hard, yet Favre bounced back up and it was Kearse that went limping off. I honestly have no idea how he can do it. I don't remember a game in which he got hit so hard so often, but even at his age he never stayed down or walked off looking like he was hurt. Hell, he was still bouncing around like an excited 24 year old by the end of the game. I loved the enthusiasm when Wynn took his pass and got the long first down.

Speaking of Wynn, he's a nice option on third downs. I think we saw why he made the team today: blitz pickups. He did a nice job considering it was his first professional game and only the second time he's stepped on a field since January. Blitzing Eagles weren't a problem today, defensive ends and tackles were. I couldn't believe how bad the pass protection looked today. Even guys like Clifton and Tauscher looked bad on a number of occasions. I understand you have to credit the defense, and Philly's got some standouts, but I'm not used to seeing Favre on the ground so much. Kearse was a terror. Bunkley is a good looking young lineman. Cole was tough. But I expected better things.

The line did nothing to help the runningbacks. I don't care if you had a prime Ahman Green back there; if there isn't a hole to run through you won't see a lot of yards on the ground. I think both Jackson and Wynn have the ability to be good ones. But we won't see it if the line doesn't start kicking some ass.

Until then I think we'll see more games like this one. Field position is going to be huge. Turnover differential will be the key to the season. Special teams has to keep making plays.

I said that if the Packers showed something in this game, won or played well in a loss I'd rethink my prediction of wins. Well, they did. That defense is sick. Unfortunately, so is the offense.

The Packers beat a team that nine months ago won a playoff game. That's a real nice accomplishment for the youngest team in the league. If they could do this to the Eagles, I see no reason they can't at least hang with other similar teams like the Giants, Rams, Panthers and Cowboys. If they don't shoot themselves in the foot, give the football away on stupid plays and the injury bug keeps away for the most part they could win 9 or 10 games. I'd be thrilled and surprised, but now I'm at least entertaining the thought.

Post #2 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:55 am

You can tell you've got talent when your special teams are good....it means your special teams players are guys who are good football players who are being held on the bench by even better starters.

We can keep bashing TT for ending up with $13mm in additional salary cap money and not getting a proven TE or RB. TT is very guilty as charged in that regard. But in three drafts, it is clear that he's brought in some real football players and we saw that not just on defense but special teams as well.

I can't really think of a game that the Packers won like this with the D and special teams......I'd have to go back to the 1997 playoffs where they knocked out Tampa Bay and SF with defense.

Ayt · Post #3 » by **Ayt** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:38 am

Now we just need some of the young bucks on offense to grow up a bit. The OL specifically.

Post #4 » by **Jollay** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:47 am

paulpressey25 wrote:You can tell you've got talent when your special teams are good....it means your special teams players are guys who are good football players who are being held on the bench by even better starters.

We can keep bashing TT for ending up with $13mm in additional salary cap money and not getting a proven TE or RB. TT is very guilty as charged in that regard. But in three drafts, it is clear that he's brought in some real football players and we saw that not just on defense but special teams as well.

I can't really think of a game that the Packers won like this with the D and special teams......I'd have to go back to the 1997 playoffs where they knocked out Tampa Bay and SF with defense.

It's a recipe for success. Re: Va Tech.

(throw out this weekend)

livestrong4ever · Post #5 » by **livestrong4ever** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:11 am

If you guys can get any running game together we guys can contend for the division. But really do the lions have the best OFFENSE in the nfc north. That sure sounds weird but it might be true. But your defense impressed me. I didn't think it would come out that good but you guys helped me win a week in fantasy football yes i drafted the packers defense and they gave me 17 points

now i just have to bear listening to all the packer fans at school monday. oh well i guess i desevre it after 4th and 26th. oo that was a good day.

NeedsMoreCheese · Post #6 » by **NeedsMoreCheese** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:42 am

livestrong4ever wrote:If you guys can get any running game together we guys can contend for the division. But really do the lions have the best OFFENSE in the nfc north. That sure sounds weird but it might be true. But your defense impressed me. I didn't think it would come out that good but you guys helped me win a week in fantasy football yes i drafted the packers defense and they gave me 17 points

now i just have to bear listening to all the packer fans at school monday. oh well i guess i desevre it after 4th and 26th. oo that was a good day.

As an outside observer id like to point out, even with that gift your team still managed to fail again in the playoffs. Maybe you guys should get Mr. I want to thank my hands for being so great back. Sure he wasnt very good but he cant be any worse than what you have now.

deep throat · Post #7 » by **deep throat** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:56 am

DrugBust wrote:Coming into the season nobody could have predicted that Jolly would improve so much or that Jenkins could make such a seamless transition to end. I understand he finished the season there but he looks like a natural at the spot. My only concern is on sweeps and tosses. You saw it a couple times in today's game; he's not the quickest guy when he has to go lateral and he's below average at getting to a quick back that wants to get to the outside. Still, I'll take that if he can continue to be such a disruptive pass rusher and run stuffer. Jolly is everything the coaching staff said he was. Three passes knocked down and tough up the middle. Williams had a nice sack and like KGB, he'll benefit from only having to play on passing downs. Speaking of passing downs, that line of KGB, Jenkins, Williams and Kampman is going to absolutely terrorize QB's this year. I mean, holy hell. A huge key to a dominant D is being able to pressure the QB without having to blitz; that line can do it.

I liked what I saw out of Bigby as well. He'll give up his share of pass plays due to inexperience but he's not Marquand Manuel. No way does Manuel get to that deep ball in the second half. That's probably a TD if this is last year. But Bigby got there and broke up the pass. That was a very welcome sight.

Offensively, it was ugly as hell. When the best play of the game was a shovel pass on a broken play, you know that there were issues. Nobody looked particularly good. The line wasn't opening any holes and Favre was on his ass a lot of the game.

He amazes me. He got absolutely smoked on a number of plays. One I had to laugh about; Kearse and another lineman took him down hard, yet Favre bounced back up and it was Kearse that went limping off. I honestly have no idea how he can do it.

The line did nothing to help the runningbacks.

DB, nice post. I cut it down some to conseve space.

Jolly-If Ted thought Jolly would be this good there's no Harrell's on the Packers. This is a case of a guy with talent putting it all together. Jenkins has been a big surprise for me, he's like a level up better then he was a year ago. I thought he was good, but he is not far from being a Pro Bowl type player. He should of had the one sack, and was close to about three others. Keep in mind that Philly has a top 5 line.

The problem I have with Bigby is he is a little too kama-kazi. Instead of making the clean tackle he tries to make the big shoulder hit too often-I'm not a fan of that-it will produce some big hits, but in the long run it will cause A LOT of missed tackles. Also that reckless style got Harris hurt. Your right he shows more speed then Maunuel -thank god he is someone elses problem. Bigby's strength will be playing at the line and on special teams.

The Offense was offensive. Jones will be a good slot guy running crossing patterns. Jennings is probably their best deep threat and should be back soon. If they could produce anything with their run game it would cure the pass game to a great extent. I think they have to examine the whole zone blocking scheme thing. Their tackles aren't what you would call taylor made for that system. Clifton flat out played like crap, but so did most of the line. That seems to be one area of the team that may have actually regressed. Jags departure could have something to do with that as he was the most knowledged in the ZBS.

The line certainly did nothing to help, but I really don't see anything special with the guys they have. BJack is very raw-you can tell he has had bad coaching (or never took to it) -he runs with the ball in the wrong hand (pop Warner), he's overwelmed when he has to block, and just doesn't show much quckness. He runs retty hard and occasionally makes a nice lateral move. If Morency doesn't get better they will be forced to bring someone in-who I don't know? Maybe a trade.

Post #8 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:30 am

It's been a great game to analyze....but we'll need a bigger sample size. I remember after the Monday night opener in 2004 where we dominated the Panthers that I thought the Packers were locks for the NFC title game....and of course we went on to lose four in a row after that.

eagle13 · Post #9 » by **eagle13** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:22 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:You can tell you've got talent when your special teams are good....it means your special teams players are guys who are good football players who are being held on the bench by even better starters.

We can keep bashing TT for ending up with $13mm in additional salary cap money and not getting a proven TE or RB. TT is very guilty as charged in that regard. But in three drafts, it is clear that he's brought in some real football players and we saw that not just on defense but special teams as well.

NO. Good ST does not neccessarily mean you have great depth. One of our best ST guys suck at their positon - Tracy White.
No what good ST means is you have GM and coach who rightly value ST enough to use some draft picks and roster spots for guys who excel at ST even if their not great position players.

One more time I praise TT. Good job TT on ST focus!!!

rilamann · Post #10 » by **rilamann** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:47 pm

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

As an outside observer id like to point out, even with that gift your team still managed to fail again in the playoffs. Maybe you guys should get Mr. I want to thank my hands for being so great back. Sure he wasnt very good but he cant be any worse than what you have now.

Speaking of that play,the way Eagle fans still talk about that 4th & 26 you'd think that they had went on to win the Super Bowl that year.

If you listen to Eagle fans you'd almost forget that all 4th & 26 did was give the Eagles the oppritunity to get they're asses handed to them on they're home field the next week by the Carolina Panthers in the NFC Championship game.

Sure it was a big play but I don't think it should go down in the history of the NFL as one of the all time great plays thats talked about for years like Eagles fans want to belive.Had the Eagles gone on to win the Super Bowl that year then yeah maybe you talk about that play when you bring up the greatest plays in NFL history but not when it didn't lead to anything other than embarrassment for you the next week.

El Duderino · Post #11 » by **El Duderino** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:19 am

Color me convinced. That defensive line is simply ridiculous

The importance of moving Jenkins to DE can't be overstated.It removed a huge target off the back of the defense,teams running right at KGB.

As you stated DB,i love that third down pass rushing unit.Move Jenkins inside next to Williams and have a fresh KGB at end with Kampman,not many offensive line will stone that group.

I'm really worried about the offensive line though.I think they will end up being solid at pass blocking,but their run blocking looks to be a trainwreck.Mix in that Jackson hasn't shown anything to me that looks overly impressive,i see most teams deciding to play seven in the box instead of eight during the majority of games which will further cramp a passing game that has a 37 year old QB and a solid,but nothing special WR core and poor TE core.

Watching the Eagles game in person,there certainly wasn't WR's running open that Brett never saw or bad line play prevented Favre from having time to get a pass off to a wide open receiver.The Eagles had quite a few more plays where i saw guys very open downfield,but McNabb either didn't see them or didn't have time to get a good pass off.

Post #12 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:58 am

I'm not that worried about the pass defense. Despite the thought that this was the worst I'd ever seen them play, I'm willing to chalk it up to a great scheme by Jim Johnson combined with a few costly mistakes by a young interior. Combine that with a few plays where Clifton and Tauscher simply got beat by great DEs, I can give this game a mulligan.

What does worry the hell out of me is the run blocking. Yes, they're still young. But I expected some degree of improvement this offseason, and thus far, I can't see it. Not only last week, but throughout the entire preseason.

Your comment about playing seven in the box was what I predicted would happen this summer. Until the Packers show they can gash a defense and make them pay, we're going to see a lot of the opponent's nickel and dime packages. It's going to be very tough on Brett and the WRs. My hope is the Packers can begin to establish enough of a ground game this week and early in the season to deter this.

Ayt · Post #13 » by **Ayt** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:13 am

The OL was definitely my biggest concern entering the season. If they don't progress, then we are screwed offensively. I was very disappointed in there play, especially that of the vets.

A main problem I see in terms of big plays is the lack of a running game. If we can't make teams fear the run at all -- and I put the majority of that on the ability of the OL to open holes -- we can't run play action and hit some big plays off of that. In the west coast offense, most big passing plays come off of YAC and play action.

I think both Morency -- again, I was really impressed with him last year -- and Jackson can get the job done provided the defensive line isn't blowing up our OL and disrupting the play every time we run.

El Duderino · Post #14 » by **El Duderino** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:03 am

I think both Morency -- again, I was really impressed with him last year -- and Jackson can get the job done provided the defensive line isn't blowing up our OL and disrupting the play every time we run.

I know that Jackson hasn't been given many holes to run through,but he hasnt impressed me much.Morency doesn't have great straight line speed,he did though almost right away that he had very quick feet and was great at cutting back and finding a crease that would develop.

I'm hoping that Jackson is just thinking to much right now because i see very little explosion when he does have even a tiny crease and he doesn't look very shifty either.The zone scheme isn't designed for a back to hit a certain hole like the scheme run by Sherman.The back has to read what's happening and use his instincts to spot a crease that is developing,then cut back if needed and explode through the hole.While the line has to often in preseason/Eagles game been beat by the opposing front seven,Jackson hasn't created a thing on his own.He hasn't looked overly fast,powerful,and i don't see the quick change of direction ability that Morency showed last year.

No question though that the line i the biggest culprit.One concern for me is that our tackles may not be best suited for this scheme and College/Spitz struggled more in run blocking than pass blocking last year.So far this season,it's hard to see signs that anyone on the line has improved in the run blocking area.Many of us got wrapped up in praising the new guards last year,but part of that IMO was simply because they were an improvement over that dreadful group Ted put out there the year prior.It's still up for debate how good these two young guys will end up being.

Ayt · Post #15 » by **Ayt** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:42 am

I think I'm a lot higher on Jackson than most here. If our OL can get their act together I think his skills will be much more apparent. Jackson had a couple nice runs when there was actually a hole for him to cut through and he was very elusive after the catch.

He doesn't look tentative to me running. He looks like a RB wondering where the **** his blocking, any blocking, is.