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The Facts

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The Facts 

Post#1 » by eagle13 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:45 pm

Brett is washed up.
Brett is not the best guy to guide the Packers.
Brett's comming back just to get the records.

"Let me tell you this," Turner said. "They're a good defensive football team. They're playing with energy and also playing with confidence. And if you have Brett Favre on your team you have a chance in every game."


"In times of crisis . . . I put the ball in Brett Favre's hand," McCarthy said. "I learned this a long time ago."


"I'm going to be totally honest with you: I'm so glad we won I could care less about that record today," Favre said. "It's like throwing that touchdown at the end, everyone's over there celebrating and cheering and congratulating me and I said, 'Look, this will mean nothing if we don't win this game.'

"That's what it's all about."

If there were any question that Favre has a lot of football left in him, it was answered the past two games. He has completed 57 of 83 passes (68.7%) for 655 yards and six touchdowns with one interception, good for a two-game passer rating of 111.3 and a season passer rating of 93.5.


After this preseason I like Rodgers but he can show character by waiting as Steve Young did for 5 years. Hopefully he'll do as well as Young did.

Of course Brett is gonna have a bad game sooner or later. He always has and probably always will. No running game may finally catch up with Pack. The fact the Brett is shreading defenses with ZERO running game makes him even all the more amazing.

GO Brett!
GO PACK!
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Post#2 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:09 pm

I'm worried about the running game, but a big part of that is the coaching staff.

Jackson's carries:

7 yards
3 yards
8 yards
2 yards
1 yard (1st goal from 2)
1 yard (2nd goal from 1 - TD)

I think the coaching staff didn't anticipate being able to move the ball on the ground and they went away from it without giving it much of a chance.

I love the short passing and it worked incredibly well yesterday, but they have to at least try and establish the run, and when it works like it did yesterday, stick with it.
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Post#3 » by xTitan » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:20 pm

DrugBust wrote:I'm worried about the running game, but a big part of that is the coaching staff.

Jackson's carries:

7 yards
3 yards
8 yards
2 yards
1 yard (1st goal from 2)
1 yard (2nd goal from 1 - TD)

I think the coaching staff didn't anticipate being able to move the ball on the ground and they went away from it without giving it much of a chance.

I love the short passing and it worked incredibly well yesterday, but they have to at least try and establish the run, and when it works like it did yesterday, stick with it.


What the coaching staff did was stick with the Packers current strength and that is the Mike Holmgren control passing game, the same gameplan when Bennet and Levens were young players. The offense in the previous sentence just happened to be the gameplan that NE utilized, spread the field, get them out of the 3-4 base defense, you know the offense that many said on here would not work because the Packers didn't have the receivers to run that, or the deep threat at receiver.
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Post#4 » by cb4_89 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:26 pm

The facts. We are 3-0.
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Post#5 » by eagle13 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:37 pm

xTitan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
that many said on here would not work because the Packers didn't have the receivers to run that, or the deep threat at receiver.


Don't know anyone who said our O would not work w/o Moss? I know I and others just said that he'd be good no risk addition FOR SO CHEAP and would be a deep threat that could only help Brett. Even TT a admitted he was too conservative getting Moss. Even TT KNEW Moss was worth getting. He was just got caught playing hard ball. I forgive him. But TT knew. Some here have no clue.

Since YOU bring it up - I do remember those that said Moss was washed up.
How often can a person be wrong b4 they learn.

Whatever.

GO Driver, Jennings, Jones
GO Pack!
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Post#6 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:58 pm

I'll eat plenty of crow again.....but even the Favre supporters couldn't have envisioned him having two weeks like he's had.....

These are "1995 Favre" performances.....

But as I'm tasting my crow, it's clear that the TT bashers have to be enjoying a serving as TT has drafted two playmakers at WR.....Jones and Jennings are excellent prospects who are making things happen.

As for Moss....I'm still uncertain if these young guys would be responding like they are if Randy was in that locker-room.....
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Post#7 » by th87 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:14 pm

I just hope xtitan's right about Bogut.
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Post#8 » by BuckPack » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:36 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I'll eat plenty of crow again.....but even the Favre supporters couldn't have envisioned him having two weeks like he's had.....

These are "1995 Favre" performances.....

But as I'm tasting my crow, it's clear that the TT bashers have to be enjoying a serving as TT has drafted two playmakers at WR.....Jones and Jennings are excellent prospects who are making things happen.

As for Moss....I'm still uncertain if these young guys would be responding like they are if Randy was in that locker-room.....


Jennings openly campaigned to get Randy to GB, saying he'd love to play with and learn from Randy. I believe it was ina Yahoo sports article from jsut before the draft. But again, that's neither here nor there anymore.

Also, while I didn't think Favre would look THIS good (he's been a top 3-4 QB in football this year), I've strongly felt that he has been unfairly criticized for the last two years--particularly in the national media. And from many of those on here who didn't even think he was a top 15 QB.

Look what he did when he had time to throw the ball yesterday: can you remember ANY game in the last 2 years where he had 4,5,6 seconds to get rid of the ball and look for the open WR? I sure can't. Can you remember the last game where Tom Brady didn't have that time? ummm.....?

Jennings, Jones, Driver, Franks...all of them save Driver are playing far better than the guys in their place the last two years. So while all the Favre bashers can talk about his "uncatchable" balls etc. and how he couldn't move in the pocket etc., many continued to overlook the team emphasis of this sport--the poor performances and lack of talent with many of our offensive starters alongside Brett. While I still think we need more (particularly at RB and TE) to reach the upper echelon of teams in the NFC and would have liked more coming into this season, it doesn't mean I'm not VERY excited about the Jennings' and Jones' future nor bearish on the remainder of this season (pardon the pun).

as for the game...
Jennings and Jones looked great. Here's hoping they stay healthy and don't hit a wall like Jennings did last year post injury.

Bubba seems to be playing with a chip on his shoulder.

While I too am a bit worried about the runnign game, I see no reason to go away from something if it's working so well. Sure I had some hesitation about not running the ball on 4th and goal from the 1, but I had more problems with MM not challenging the Jones play (and I also could very well see Merriman, Williams,Castillo etc. stuffing Jackson on 4th and goal...). either way, I'm glad that the Pack didn't waste their time trying to establish the run--if something is working, then why go away from it? Favre and co were gutting the secondary, I see no reason to beat your head against the wall just b/c it's the thing you're supposed to do.

I expect more of the same for the next two weeks, but with Minny/Chi hopefully trying to take away our spread offense, it should open up some running lanes. Anyway, I expect us to be a pass first offense for the next two weeks. Hopefully the receivers, TEs and Favre continue to play like this...
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Post#9 » by El Duderino » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:00 pm

DrugBust wrote:I'm worried about the running game, but a big part of that is the coaching staff.

Jackson's carries:

7 yards
3 yards
8 yards
2 yards
1 yard (1st goal from 2)
1 yard (2nd goal from 1 - TD)

I think the coaching staff didn't anticipate being able to move the ball on the ground and they went away from it without giving it much of a chance.

I love the short passing and it worked incredibly well yesterday, but they have to at least try and establish the run, and when it works like it did yesterday, stick with it.



I don't agree,they were moving the ball best by passing nearly every play and not wasting downs by running.In fact,as great as LT is,i think the Chargers win that game if they would have passed more.The Packers largely shut down their run game,but really struggled vs the pass because Gates is such a freak of nature.I was happy most times they ran,more times than not it put them in 2nd and long and it lead to some punts.

We'll need to run at some point,yesterday though wasn't the time to try and force the issue since they weren't getting pressure on Brett and their secondary was the weak link of their defense.
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Post#10 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:34 pm

That was just it, though. Running wasn't 'forcing the issue'. Unlike in past weeks, there weren't any defenders in the backfield blowing up plays. The holes were there on the rare occurrence that they ran.

As for what it left them, here's the game log.

Running actually left them in second and short more often than not.

When they ran on 1st down:

1st-10, SD47 14:10 R. Grant rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
1st-10, GB13 7:04 R. Grant rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain
1st-10, SD44 0:01 B. Jackson rushed to the left for 7 yard gain
1st-10, GB36 8:55 B. Jackson rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
1st-10, SD46 11:07 D. Wynn rushed to the left for 4 yard gain

The only other time they rushed on first down was when they had first and goal from the two.

So twice they were left with a 2nd and 8. The other three times they had manageable yards to go on 2nd down.

Compare that to these instances:

1st-10, GB31 14:56 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
1st-10, SD14 3:47 B. Favre incomplete pass to the left
1st-10, GB32 4:45 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
1st-5, SD5 2:57 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
1st-10, GB27 0:26 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
1st-10, SD11 7:59 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
1st-6, SD6 7:09 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
1st-10, GB43 2:18 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right

We won a game against a great team and Favre looked super. But abandoning the run like they did didn't make much sense in my opinion.
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Post#11 » by eagle13 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:10 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I'll eat plenty of crow again.....but even the Favre supporters couldn't have envisioned him having two weeks like he's had.....

These are "1995 Favre" performances.....

But as I'm tasting my crow, it's clear that the TT bashers have to be enjoying a serving as TT has drafted two playmakers at WR.....Jones and Jennings are excellent prospects who are making things happen.

As for Moss....I'm still uncertain if these young guys would be responding like they are if Randy was in that locker-room.....


Yeah I did not see Brett this good but we could see he had plenty of game.

TT bashers may have to eat crow but its early. As for me I both railed against TT early - for the Oline he put together his 1st yr - even he admitted in article that was maybe one of his miscalculations- and I've praised him plenty - Woodson, Pickett, Crosby and unlike others I was ok with him NOT blowing stupid $ on the FAs available this year (Moss was not a FA). TT is doing OK. Great drafter? Certainly above average. Have to see how Harrell and Rodgers pan out. They should be good. I'm hopeful.

As for Moss in locker room? BuckPack covered that. Bottom line is as you say your uncertain - b/c you don't know. Moss being a problem HERE is merely speculation and is probably as wrong as about people were about Brett and Moss being washed up.
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Post#12 » by El Duderino » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:37 pm

DrugBust wrote:That was just it, though. Running wasn't 'forcing the issue'. Unlike in past weeks, there weren't any defenders in the backfield blowing up plays. The holes were there on the rare occurrence that they ran.

As for what it left them, here's the game log.

Running actually left them in second and short more often than not.

When they ran on 1st down:

1st-10, SD47 14:10 R. Grant rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
1st-10, GB13 7:04 R. Grant rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain
1st-10, SD44 0:01 B. Jackson rushed to the left for 7 yard gain
1st-10, GB36 8:55 B. Jackson rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
1st-10, SD46 11:07 D. Wynn rushed to the left for 4 yard gain

The only other time they rushed on first down was when they had first and goal from the two.

So twice they were left with a 2nd and 8. The other three times they had manageable yards to go on 2nd down.

Compare that to these instances:

1st-10, GB31 14:56 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
1st-10, SD14 3:47 B. Favre incomplete pass to the left
1st-10, GB32 4:45 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
1st-5, SD5 2:57 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
1st-10, GB27 0:26 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
1st-10, SD11 7:59 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
1st-6, SD6 7:09 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
1st-10, GB43 2:18 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right

We won a game against a great team and Favre looked super. But abandoning the run like they did didn't make much sense in my opinion.



I can't read the mind of McCarthy,but my guess on his thinking

1.The Patriots ate the Chargers alive from the spread

2.He didn't like the matchups up front in the running game and felt any success wouldn't be sustained.

3.He liked his chances getting three passes each time to get first downs

4.The no back sets took the Chargers out of the defensive sets they prefer to play and blitz from.

5.All the passes were tough on their pass rushers,especially on a warm day.Rushing the passer takes more work from the rusher than the offensive lineman.My guess is those pass rushers were pretty gassed in the second half and it helped the line protect somewhat.

6.Most importantly,it was a close game all day.McCarthy trusts his pass game and it was working,with good reason he doesn't trust the running game.
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Post#13 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:45 pm

Dude, I certainly agree with all of that.
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Post#14 » by LUKE23 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:18 pm

Favre still has it. I never doubted it once. But you do need weapons to succeed in this league. We have those at the WR spot. If we had a legit running game this would be a SB contender, but one thing at a time.

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy deserve so much credit it isn't even funny. Let me take you back to two years ago at this time....TT was hired in the offseason, the Packers are tredging out the pitiful remnants of the Mike Sherman tenure, and the Packers future looks bleak. That offseason MM gets hired, no one knows who the hell he is, we draft a bunch of no-names. It appears we may be headed back to the 1980's.

But man, were most of (including myself) wrong. TT, in about 2 1/5 seasons, has:

1. Transformed an aging, overpaid, overrated roster into the youngest roster in football, with potential galore, and a team that is up to it's neck in cap space.

2. Drafted absolutely amazing for the most part, with a few misses. Jennings and Jones were bashed by nearly every expert out there, and both appear to be legit weapons on a contending team.

3. Hired a head coach that is 11-8 with the youngest roster in the NFL for all 19 of those games.

4. Constructed a top 10 NFL defense.


I mean, not enough praise can go to TT and MM. This roster has had a complete overhaul and they only had took one terrible and one mediocre season to do so. And with the youth on this team, TT's drafting ability, and our cap space, Packers are here to stay.

Now, find us a running game TT...
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Post#15 » by LUKE23 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:36 pm

edit: double post
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Post#16 » by whatthe_buck!? » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:08 am

I shouldn't say it.
I won't say it.
It would be stupid to say it.
I shouldn't even think it.




God D*mnit, I can't help myself:
M...V...P...?

:o

I'm an idiot. I should have just kept it to myself. There is no chance of it happening. Right? Right guys? Hmmm... anyone care to weigh in?
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Post#17 » by LUKE23 » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:24 pm

whatthe_buck!? wrote:I shouldn't say it.
I won't say it.
It would be stupid to say it.
I shouldn't even think it.




God D*mnit, I can't help myself:
M...V...P...?

:o

I'm an idiot. I should have just kept it to myself. There is no chance of it happening. Right? Right guys? Hmmm... anyone care to weigh in?


Brady has it locked up, barring any major happenings in NE. He's on pace for like 52 TD's right now, not that I think he'll keep that up.

I expect NE to be 14-2 or 15-1, and for Brady to have by far his best statistical season, given the weapons he has. He's a lock.

I do think Favre would have a shot otherwise though. Brees has been trash so far this season, and Favre does look like he'll be on a winning team.
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Post#18 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:11 pm

I think supporting cast will play a major role in the minds of voters. I don't think either QB will keep up their pace, but Favre should end up with over 4000 yards and 35 TDs provided everyone remains healthy. Even if Brady ends up with a a much better season statistically, I think they'll see Moss, Welker, Watson, Stallworth and Maroney and see how big of an advantage he has in terms of a supporting cast.

If years past I think we've had different players win MVP and offensive player of the year. If the Packers finish 12-4 or 13-3 (god I've be amazed) I could see Brett winning the MVP easily.

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