OT- Top QBs

[eagle13]

Top 10 QBs since the NFL-AFL merger...

Brady and Peyton are great but don't deserve to be on list YET IMO.

Brett
Elway
Montana
Young
Aikman
Marino
Bradshaw
Tarkenton
Staubach
Unitas

I'm sure I'm forgetting someone obvious.

[MickeyDavis]

Bart Starr and Joe Montana. Number 1 and 1a.

[LUKE23]

Starr? No.

I think people tend to overrate Packer legends because of the Lombardi years success. He is not a top 5 QB all-time, and probably not even top 10.

I like your list overall eagle.

[InsideOut]

1). Montana far and away in my mind.
2). Unitas
3). Elway
4). Young
5). Tie between Marino and Favre

I just can't place Favre any higher and no where near #1. With Favre you have a mix of great and horrible. Not so with a Montana. Favre is about to have the most TD passes but is also about to have more INTs than anyone in the history of the game. He has a great regular season record but from 1998 on he has just killed us in the playoffs. Over that time he has a QB rating of 70.1 and has thrown 11 TDs and 16 INTs. Montana had a career 95.3 post season QB rating and in his last 15 playoff games only threw 10 INTs.

Favre has been tough as nails, has a great arm and has made many spectacular plays. However, we will all agree he has made some of the dumbest throws and decisions ever made. Be honest, how many times in the past 10 years has Favre dropped back in a close game and you cringed as he let the ball fly. You just prayed it wouldn't get picked off. That is what you get with a gunslinger. I'm 41 and watched all these guys (except Unitas) play their entire careers. They were all great but Montana was just awesome. He almost never screwed up and I can't think of a single game in which he stunk so bad that he cost his team the game.

[LUKE23]

Marino and Favre can't really be tied. Their numbers are near identical, but Favre has been better when it counted, in the postseason. They are close, but Favre's postseason puts him over him.

Why is Elway ahead of him? Far less numbers, similar winning %. Just because Elway won 2 SB's?

Young and Unitas are also definitely debatable.

Agree with Montana #1.

Favre has the most wins alll-time, will have most TD's and most yards. Yes, most INT as well, but please remember Marino was also in the 250's and Blanda, the current INT holder, LESS THAN HALF the attempts Favre did. Not comparable.

[MickeyDavis]

A lot of QB's had talent around them and couldn't win the big one. Tarkenton for instance.

Did you know that Starr threw just 3 interceptions in 213 post season attempts?

Did you know that Starr is the highest-rated playoff passer in NFL history (104.8 )?

Marino on the other hand had a playoff rating of only 77.1 and lost more playoff games than he won. Good article on the Marino Myth http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Ar ... hp?Page=57

Here is a blurb about Starr from Cold, Hard Football Facts:

The Ice Bowl, he was beaten senseless by the Dallas defense: he was sacked eight times that day, knocked to the ice-hard surface on several other occasions, and had two passes batted away. He fumbled on one sack, which was picked up by Dallas and returned for a game-changing TD. The Packers mustered just 12 yards of offense in the third quarter.

Yet with the game on the line, his hands frozen, and history and Mother Nature staring down their sights at him, Starr was magnificent, as he always was in crunch time (there's a reason Starr remains to this day, 40 years after his last playoff performance, the highest rated postseason passer in NFL history).

Unable to move the ball for much of the afternoon, Starr walked into the huddle with 4:54 remaining and 68 yards between the Packers and victory. He simply looked at this teammates and, according to Gruver,

[MickeyDavis]

If you guys are going strictly by numbers (and I realize many of you never saw most of these guys play), then you should use postseason numbers more than regular season numbers.

It's a lot easier building up stats in the regular season. Crunch time in the playoffs is when the great quarterbacks step up.

[InsideOut]

Marino and Favre can't really be tied. Their numbers are near identical, but Favre has been better when it counted, in the postseason. They are close, but Favre's postseason puts him over him.

Why is Elway ahead of him? Far less numbers, similar winning %. Just because Elway won 2 SB's?

Young and Unitas are also definitely debatable.

Agree with Montana #1.

Favre has the most wins alll-time, will have most TD's and most yards. Yes, most INT as well, but please remember Marino was also in the 250's and Blanda, the current INT holder, LESS THAN HALF the attempts Favre did. Not comparable.

Sure they can be tied. This is just people's opinions and there are no correct answers. I don't see Favre's post season numbers being all that great, especially in the past 10years. I also don't just look at a player

[LUKE23]

You could also argue his numbers would have been much better if he had better talent. Compared to Montana, Young, Marino, and even Elway who had Terrell Davis, Favre had minimal talent. He made guys like Schroeder look very solid, and then these guys did nothing once they left GB. He had Sharpe and Walker as elite WR talents, and he had neither for very long at all. Favre hasn't had that great of weapons throughout his tenure.

[InsideOut]

You could also argue his numbers would have been much better if he had better talent. Compared to Montana, Young, Marino, and even Elway who had Terrell Davis, Favre had minimal talent. He made guys like Schroeder look very solid, and then these guys did nothing once they left GB. He had Sharpe and Walker as elite WR talents, and he had neither for very long at all. Favre hasn't had that great of weapons throughout his tenure.

The talent argument is a double edged sword. Were the players around Montana great to start or were they great because Montana made them great? Or maybe all these players were made to look great because of the genius of Bill Walsh. I just don't see how you can answer these questions.

The same for Aikman. He had all the talent in the world around him yet his numbers are nothing great. Was he a bad QB made to look good by all the talent around him or was he a great QB made to look good because he had to hand the ball to Smith 30 times a game. They also were so good in his prime that he never had to throw 40+ times a game to keep his team in the game. Dallas gets the ball inside the 10 and he hands the ball to Smith 4 times. Favre gets 1st and goal at the 6 and he passes 4 times. How can you say whose better based on numbers or the talent around them? I'm not smart enough to answer that.

I also don't think Elway or Marino had all that great of weapons. Yes, Davis was great but what did Smith do for Aikman's stats? Who were the WRs that these guys had that are going to the HOF. I watched these guys in their prime and Duper and Clayton are the only names that jump out at me. Most fans under 30 wouldn't even know who those guys were. Name the best RB Marino had? Heck, off the top of your head name any RB Marino had. Who was Elway throwing to when he had Denver in the Super Bowl in 1986, 87 & 89. Now name me all the great players that played with Elway in 86-89. Then he won the Super Bowl back to back in 97 and 98. That makes 5 Super Bowls in 12 years. The guy must have been pretty good. The guy didn't always win the big one but he sure didn't crap the bed that often while he was getting them there.

[paulpressey25]

I think I put Favre ahead of Elway.....

Elway did make it to 5 superbowls, but 3 of those were when the AFC was really weak and it wasn't comparable to Favre having to go through Dallas and San Francisco all the time early in his career.

Looking at the number of INT's Favre has thrown per attempts versus Elway, the difference is tiny (3.1% for Elway, 3.2% for Favre)

Elway also had the ability of working under two great, great coaches in Shanahan and Dan Reeves in his prime. Given that Denver hasn't exactly fallen off a cliff since Elway retired tells me that there was/is a pretty strong team and system in place. I'm always curious what Holmgren would have done with a re-loaded Packer team that Ron Wolf put in place by 2000.

I think Elway gets overhyped for a couple great playoff comeback drives (which were great) and the fact he rode Terrell Davis along with a great defense to his two super bowl wins. If there is no Terrell Davis and Shanahan zone blocking, we are talking about Fran Tarkenton.

[El Duderino]

Elway did make it to 5 superbowls, but 3 of those were when the AFC was really weak and it wasn't comparable to Favre having to go through Dallas and San Francisco all the time early in his career

That's one aspect that's often overlooked when evaluating not just QB's,but teams in general.Look at for how years the Cowboys/49ers/Packers were elite teams,but had to fight through each other to reach te Super Bowl.Both Steve Young and Favre likely would have more Super Bowl appearances if they played in the AFC at the time or if the NFC hadn't been so incredibly strong at the time.In the reverse,Elway likely doesn't make his three early appearances if the Broncos were in the NFC.Then again,Favre likely couldn't have lead those three Bronco teams to a SB shot either if they were in the NFC.

So many variables go into these debates that could effect why a QB made or didn't make more Super Bowl appearances and the numbers a QB put up.

1.Strength of that QB's teams over his career

2.The teams that a QB had to get past for a SB berth

3.Quality of coaches a QB had over his career

4.System a QB is in can greatly affect the numbers a QB puts up

5.Talent to throw to can affect a QB's numbers

6.Simple luck.Many things can happen in playoff games that are entirely out of the control of the QB,thus effecting the thing he must tryto do going forward in the games.


I'd rank Montana No.1,but it should be noted most of those 49er teams were loaded talent wise and Bill Walsh was ahead of his time running a system teams couldn't stop.

Favre vs Elway is such a tough call IMO that i'm sure if say 40-50 people inside the NFL were asked that coached or played against both,opinions would be fairly close to 50/50.

Hell,even though i think Montana should be number one.Try to imagine Brett or Elway was the QB on those great 49er teams and Montana was the QB on the Packers/Broncos teams.How many rings would each have?

wHO KNOWS

[InsideOut]

I think I put Favre ahead of Elway.....

Elway did make it to 5 superbowls, but 3 of those were when the AFC was really weak and it wasn't comparable to Favre having to go through Dallas and San Francisco all the time early in his career.

Looking at the number of INT's Favre has thrown per attempts versus Elway, the difference is tiny (3.1% for Elway, 3.2% for Favre)

Elway also had the ability of working under two great, great coaches in Shanahan and Dan Reeves in his prime. Given that Denver hasn't exactly fallen off a cliff since Elway retired tells me that there was/is a pretty strong team and system in place. I'm always curious what Holmgren would have done with a re-loaded Packer team that Ron Wolf put in place by 2000.

I think Elway gets overhyped for a couple great playoff comeback drives (which were great) and the fact he rode Terrell Davis along with a great defense to his two super bowl wins. If there is no Terrell Davis and Shanahan zone blocking, we are talking about Fran Tarkenton.

I don't understand the weak AFC argument. Let's switch Denver to the NFC and SF to the AFC. Could we then say SF wasn't that great a team because they played in the weak AFC and Denver becomes a better team because they won back to back Super Bowls coming out of the NFC. Are you saying no team can be considered truly great unless they had to play in a great conference?

I also don't see how playing for a great coach determines how great a QB is. Aikman played for a great coach and won two Super Bowls. He then won another playing for a coach most thought was an idiot. A great coach can also hurt a QB career. Elway was held back under Reeves system. They won games but he could never put up the big stats like the west coast offense guys were.

As far as Elway riding Davis and him turning into Tarkenton without him...is Favre not even in the league without a Wolf or Holmgren. The guy sucked in Atlanta and was on his way out of the league.

Dude said it best. There are just way to many variables to ever have a definitive answer. It's all just opinion. I guess that's what makes it fun to debate.

[ReasonablySober]

I didn't watch a lot of AFC football nor did I see Elway in his run of Super Bowls. I know people call Elway the most talented QB of all-time. I personally have no idea so I look to stats and wins, which probably don't tell even close to the whole story.