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OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Sun Oct 5, 2008 8:47 pm
by Kerb Hohl
And Zach Brown needs to get the 2nd most.
70% Clay.
20% Brown.
10% Hill.
I've never thought PJ Hill is any good.Now it's showing. We are the Denver Broncos of the NCAA with our offensive line making any RB do pretty well. PJ Hill is our Ruben Droughns or Mike Anderson. We aren't going to play Akron every week where twirlz could run for 200 behind that offensive line. To his credit, Hill looks to be in his best shape he's been in this year, but he still sucks.
Clay is a first day draft pick in the waiting, Brown may get a shot somewhere, and PJ Hill might be lucky to get a phone call to be on a practice squad.
Look at OSU. Boeckmann is apparently a 1st day draft pick and they bench him for the uber-talented Pryor. Pryor has his passing limitations but Boeckmann hasn't done crap in big games, and Pryor might have a shot at it.
PJ Hill is playing because we want to be friendly to him because he racked up huge numbers against trash defenses and some idiots might have called out the coaching a few weeks ago if we brought Clay in.
Here is Hill vs. good defenses:
2008 OSU: 3.9 YPC
2008 Michigan: 3.2 YPC
2007 Tennessee: 8.3 YPC
2007 Michigan: 2.8 YPC (only 5 carries)
2007 Penn State: 3.9 YPC
2007 Illinois: 4.0 YPC
2007 Iowa: 3.9 YPC
2006 Arkansas: 1.9 YPC
2006 Iowa: 2.8 YPC
2006 Penn State: 4.8 YPC
2006 Michigan: 2.7 YPC
That is TERRIBLE.
Looking at all of this, he might not even be the 3rd best RB on the team. I understand he is a battering ram that might have a low average but he can wear down the defense, but we won't win the majority of games against good teams with this trash.
Evridge is a problem too. I have no idea if somebody else is a better option, though. Curt Phillips' being not redshirted next year can't come fast enough.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Sun Oct 5, 2008 11:35 pm
by trwi7
Don't want to pat myself on the back, well actually I do but I've been saying this since before the season started.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Sun Oct 5, 2008 11:43 pm
by aaprigs311
Amen.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 1:49 am
by Kerb Hohl
trwi7 wrote:Don't want to pat myself on the back, well actually I do but I've been saying this since before the season started.
I've been saying this since his sophomore year. His freshman year there wasn't much behind him and I still wasn't able to get a read on his talents that year.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 3:05 am
by El Duderino
I agree, Hill is overrated, the guy fills up his stats on bad defenses. That said, the defense isn't anything special and Evridge isn't a smart QB, hard to win big with a quarterback who has rocks for brains.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 3:11 am
by Kerb Hohl
El Duderino wrote:I agree, Hill is overrated, the guy fills up his stats on bad defenses. That said, the defense isn't anything special and Evridge isn't a smart QB, hard to win big with a quarterback who has rocks for brains.
For sure. This was my theory last year, though. Your QB doesn't have a big arm in Donovan(this year I think Evridge has a decent arm but is just an idiot and inaccurate), so both guys have a hard time moving the ball down the field on the big pass. So you want to grind down the field in bunches of 3 yards with your rushing game? The defense has shown flashes of being good (mostly sucks) but even if they are the Baltimore Ravens it's hard to win every game or even lose one or two with dinks and dunks down the field and trash 3 yard carries where you try to manage the clock.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 5:33 am
by El Duderino
No question about it, but i do think Donovan was better than Everidge. The big problem with giving Hill so many carries vs a good defense is the guy can't ever seem to break off any long runs. Hill will get at times a few 10-12-15 yard runs at most, but that's it. If we intend to run as much as we do, when facing a good defense, you gotta bust a few for big yards and Hill just isn't good enough to do that.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 5:56 am
by Kerb Hohl
El Duderino wrote:No question about it, but i do think Donovan was better than Everidge. The big problem with giving Hill so many carries vs a good defense is the guy can't ever seem to break off any long runs. Hill will get at times a few 10-12-15 yard runs at most, but that's it. If we intend to run as much as we do, when facing a good defense, you gotta bust a few for big yards and Hill just isn't good enough to do that.
No question that Donovan was better. That is something that if you would have told me in 2006 that after the 2008 year that Donovan was better in his starting year than Evridge I would have laughed at you.
And yup, the big run theory is the exact same one I have.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 7:54 am
by El Turco
CharlosVllnueva wrote: Boeckmann is apparently a 1st day draft pick
god, i hope not.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 12:29 pm
by zmanishere11
I agree, PJ Hill is and has been trash, but why should John Clay be playing and starting??
2008
OPP RESULT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
Akron W 38-17 12 71 5.9 19 1
Marshall W 51-14 11 54 4.9 15 2
@Fresno State W 13-10 3 14 4.7 8 0
@Michigan L 27-25 3 52 17.3 46 1
Ohio State L 20-17 10 69 6.9 17 0
I mean, assuming you like big plays and consistent hard running, yeah.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Mon Oct 6, 2008 2:51 pm
by Kerb Hohl
zmanishere11 wrote:I agree, PJ Hill is and has been trash, but why should John Clay be playing and starting??
2008
OPP RESULT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
Akron W 38-17 12 71 5.9 19 1
Marshall W 51-14 11 54 4.9 15 2
@Fresno State W 13-10 3 14 4.7 8 0
@Michigan L 27-25 3 52 17.3 46 1
Ohio State L 20-17 10 69 6.9 17 0
I mean, assuming you like big plays and consistent hard running, yeah.
Clay came into the end of those early games with a lot of the backups in on the line, aside from Fresno State. Having over a 4 average against Fresno, a decent Michigan defense, and Ohio State is good enough for me.
If you want Brown 1 and Clay 2 then that is fine. Hill should be 3 or lower though, no questions asked.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:16 am
by El Duderino
One thing the Badgers could use is a back with some great speed. A combination of Clay and a back that can fly in the Anthony Davis mode would be ideal.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Tue Oct 7, 2008 4:16 pm
by Ryan5UW
One of the things that frustrates me so much about Hill is he dances around in the backfield WAY too much. He needs to get to the line as quick as possible and try to explode through a hole. He's just too slow and not agile enough to dance around in the backfield and wait for something to open up. He needs to be more aggressive. I couldn't agree with this entire thread more - I've been down on PJ since last season too.
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Tue Oct 7, 2008 5:11 pm
by crkone
Its like he waits too long for his blockers and the hole closes on him. I know he lost weight to be able to dance and not have to take on backers but come on. Just hit the hole!!!
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Tue Oct 7, 2008 7:30 pm
by Ryan5UW
crkone wrote:Just hit the hole!!!
Re: OT: John Clay needs to start and get most of carries
Posted: Thu Oct 9, 2008 12:58 am
by MetroDrugUnit
CharlosVllnueva wrote:And Zach Brown needs to get the 2nd most.
70% Clay.
20% Brown.
10% Hill.
I've never thought PJ Hill is any good.Now it's showing. We are the Denver Broncos of the NCAA with our offensive line making any RB do pretty well. PJ Hill is our Ruben Droughns or Mike Anderson. We aren't going to play Akron every week where twirlz could run for 200 behind that offensive line. To his credit, Hill looks to be in his best shape he's been in this year, but he still sucks.
Clay is a first day draft pick in the waiting, Brown may get a shot somewhere, and PJ Hill might be lucky to get a phone call to be on a practice squad.
Look at OSU. Boeckmann is apparently a 1st day draft pick and they bench him for the uber-talented Pryor. Pryor has his passing limitations but Boeckmann hasn't done crap in big games, and Pryor might have a shot at it.
PJ Hill is playing because we want to be friendly to him because he racked up huge numbers against trash defenses and some idiots might have called out the coaching a few weeks ago if we brought Clay in.
Here is Hill vs. good defenses:
2008 OSU: 3.9 YPC
2008 Michigan: 3.2 YPC
2007 Tennessee: 8.3 YPC
2007 Michigan: 2.8 YPC (only 5 carries)
2007 Penn State: 3.9 YPC
2007 Illinois: 4.0 YPC
2007 Iowa: 3.9 YPC
2006 Arkansas: 1.9 YPC
2006 Iowa: 2.8 YPC
2006 Penn State: 4.8 YPC
2006 Michigan: 2.7 YPC
That is TERRIBLE.
Looking at all of this, he might not even be the 3rd best RB on the team. I understand he is a battering ram that might have a low average but he can wear down the defense, but we won't win the majority of games against good teams with this trash.
Evridge is a problem too. I have no idea if somebody else is a better option, though. Curt Phillips' being not redshirted next year can't come fast enough.
No doubt! We have the worst starting backfeild in over a decade. PJ I've never liked and Evridge sucks ass. Bret Needs to put the guys in the game who came man up and lead us to some wins!!!