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I recall a couple of years ago , the packers decided to change their offensive line blocking schemes to match the one that the broncos use. I recall myself being dead set against it, as i always hate something new and different. I've noticed a lot of critism lately pointed towards the packers' offensive line players. No o-lineman has escaped the fans' rath.

So I will politely ask the question, is it the lousy scheme? or is it the lousy player? Did the packers incorporate a new blocking scheme without first considering their offensive line personnel? Does this new scheme not take advantage of the strengths of our blockers? Are our blockers still trying to learn how to block in this new scheme? Would our lineman be better if we reverted back to the old way of blocking? Did we draft lineman with the new scheme in mind? Would we be better if we had a viable fullback who could block and protect the qb?

they say the average life of an average NFL player is 4 years. Did our offensive line players all just contract greg oden desease and get old at the same time ? What's wrong with Colledge? Was he a reach to begin with? Did he never grasp the new blocking schemes? Would he be better in a more traditional scheme?

Ok, you know the jist of what i was asking. Was going to this new blocking scheme jus t too complicated for our o-line to grasp? or have they just got old and useless.

I was also against it for the Packers from the start for the many reasons - some we see today.

Our OTs were built for power blocking game. Because they WERE excellent pass blockers we weren't going to dump them especially since we needed to rebuild our interior line positions.

Good pass blockers are hard to find and incredibly valuable as was clifton & tauscher all these years capably taking out the defenses pass rushers.

I believe the zbs takes a more skilled, athletic and smarter player than power blocking. Hence those players are harder to come by.(just like good DLs are harder to get than LBs so 3-4 should be easier to fill)

I think this is why its been hard to score an effective G in the draft. ZBS is tougher to learn and master.
Hence TT might have been right about Gs lower value in the power game but that MAY not be true in zbs.

And while zbs might be a good system - idk - its not like teams can't run who use power blocking ala ahman green & LT of Chargers.

Going forward - since we really still do not have an interior line that EXCELS at ZBS we still basically need to convert our entire OLine personnel.

IF we returned to power blocking I think we would find new personnel a LITTLE easier and MAYBE our existing personnel would do better. I think spitz (at C) & sitton (at G) are good for power game. College just sucks but maybe he'd be better (aS LG). Barbre is a super athelete and strong but dumb. He might catch on better doing what he did in college = power blocking LT. Certainly rookie Beno comes from power blocking school.

Overall I feel we need 2 system changes for next year -
Scrap ZBS for O (as I said from start).
Use 3-4 for D (as I said this preseason).
and if we loose a couple more - start experimenting a little with the change the rest of this season

Do I think M3 will change either? NO.

I was never a big fan of the ZBS. When you think of the Packers and most cold weather teams you think power football. The Packers roots are deeply entrenched in the power run game, and I think they have to be when you play football during a Wisconsin winter. Eagle nailed it on the head. Tausch and Clifton were pro bowl pass blockers, but the ZBS relies on quicker and smaller linemen, which Tausch and Clifton are not. I still think Tauscher has some productive years left in the tank and I hope he is resigned. Clifton on the other hand is struggling and should be replaced. I guess the long term plan is for Colledge to move to LT. Whether that is a successful transition or not remains to be seen. I think Sitton could be a very good young player and will remain in the picture. I'd like TT to spend a little cash on the o-line this offseason. There is a nice crop of free agent linemen. Come next offseason I think we'll find out whether the ZBS will be scraped or if it will be part of our long term future.

it seems to me the bronco offensive lines that paved the way for those great years on the ground cut block almost every play. i cant remember seeing a packer o lineman do that all season. they should try it out.

SteveScheffler wrote:it seems to me the bronco offensive lines that paved the way for those great years on the ground cut block almost every play. i cant remember seeing a packer o lineman do that all season. they should try it out.

Ding Ding Ding, winner.

For years the Bronco linemen were called cheap and dangerous. Who cares? It worked. I don't see much of that from our interior linemen and I know that our tackles won't.

I think that's one reason why you heard so much of Sitton last offseason. They said he had more of an "offensive linemen mentality" than recent Packer draft picks. He was thought to be a tougher, meaner guy than a sweetie like Colledge. Now, he sort of sucked once the games started, but he's young.

All that aside, I wouldn't have any problem scrapping this scheme and going with 340 lb road graders.

That was before the NFL turned into the WNFL. If players made blocks like that today they'd be fined and suspended up the ass.

so what you are saying is that the success of the broncos' blocking scheme in the past was based on them making a lot of now illegal chops blocks? rather than really being an effective scheme?

and now that chop blocks have been made illegal, the bronco's O line and scheme is looking very ordinary. I noticed their running game is not what it once was, and their pass protection stinks. You had to wonder why their scheme was only used by one other NFL team before the packers jumped on its band wagon. and now we know.

Fact is, we run off tackle a lot, and if you are running the ZBS and your tackles won't cut block, then you cannot effectively run off tackle. From what I have heard Clifton refuses to cut, and Tauscher doesn't do it effectively. This has led to running left side the majority of the time since you want to make a backside cutback lane with a backside cut block.

Major, chop blocks are very different from cut blocks. The Bronco O-line is known for cut blocking. This is not illegal, but is definitely frowned upon by the defensive linemen of the league.

Bad players or bad O-line scheme? Both.

My theory is that TT BOY favored the scheme change because it is easier to find smaller linemen. Smaller linemen are therefore cheaper linemen. Smaller lineman are available later in the draft. Eagle13 has it backwards up above. It takes less talent and size to perform as an interior lineman in the ZBS. At least in theory.

The problem is that with a quarterback like Rodgers, who holds the ball longer and doesn't move up in the pocket as well as the predecessor, the ZBS gets exposed. Couple that with the fact that our short passing game no longer sets up the run. Add to that the fact that Clifton is declining at tremendous rate. There you have our offensive woes.

I still think Tauscher has a little left in the tank. He looks bad due to association. But TT BOY has to find a blue chip replacement for Clifton. Colledge is awful as well and needs to be replaced. One of Wells and Spitz needs to go as well, but I can't tell which one. I'd guess Spitz, though he could be a good backup.

See TT BOY, the most important positions are Quarterback, Offensive Line, and Defensive Line. Why? Because good to great players at those positions, who have the prototypical physical traits for those positions, ARE HARD TO FIND. Those positions start every play, as they begin closer to the ball. Whoever wins the beginning, typically wins the end. And of course, the Quarterback makes the identity of the team. A Quarterback who makes everyone better, is gold.

I personally think the ZBS is weak, cheap and lame.

Offensive lineman are supposed to be nasty, mean, and willing to go toe-to-toe with their opposition on every single play; not any of that cut block crap. Who cares if it's worked for other teams, scrap it all together and go back to a grind-it-out power running game.