OLB's: The current state.

[Lippo]

OK we now have 8-9 candidates on our current roster.
In order of potential..w/ size & approx 40 time

Aaron Kampman 6-4 265 - 4.65 - Can rush the passer, can he cover in space?
AJ Hawk 6-1 248 - 4.6 - Needs to develop some pass rush moves, but has the potential in this scheme, or is he more suited inside?
Brady Poppinga 6-3 247 - 4.65 - Ideal backup for both OLB spots.
Jeremy Thompson 6-4 270 - 4.7 - Lacks burst, but great vs the run. Limited Pass rush skills,
Brandan Chillar 6-2 243 - 4.65 - Solid, but unspectacular but can back up all 4 spots.
Jason Hunter 6-4 271 - 4.75 - IMO the best of the rest
Danny Lansanah 6-1 248 - 4.7 - Parcels loved him, may be sleeper.
Michael Montgomery 6-5 273 - 4.8 - Probably not resigned
Spencer Havner 6-3 248 - 4.7 - Won't make the roster


Barnett 6-2 236 - 4.5 and Bishop 6-2 238 - 4.6 most likely to start at ILB IMO

Opions? Hunter/Thompson/Mongtomery ? Any ability at OLB? Can they shed a bit of weight and improve speed and agility?

In recent mocks I keep trying to bag 2 of (Brown/Maybin/Sintim/English/Johnson) to be our bookends, but on paper our team seems to have a ton of options. Maybe a 1st/2nd or trade down of Britton/Mack would be better for the team.

Pickett/Cole/6th ronder(Dixon) are fine at NT: No need for Raji or Brace

[MickeyDavis]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

[ReasonablySober]

Jeremy Thompson is my sleeper. A few weeks ago I posted his measurements at the combine last year, and he left ranked as one of the top athletes on the line.

To get an idea of the kind of athlete he is, I'd check out the video.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jerem ... on?id=2317

[Lippo]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Slow? He ran a 4.5 at the combine and his pro day. Thats makes him the fastest LB we have, including Barnett. Hes also larger than Barnett and Bishop, making him our biggest ILB. What he lacks to play the OLB spot is the ability to get the QB, and what he lacks inside is the ability to shed blocks(same as Barnett). I think pass rushing moves can be taught easier than getting off blocks, which is a much more difficult ability to learn. Hawk has all the physical attributes to play any LB position, just not the dimeanor

[Lippo]

Jeremy Thompson is my sleeper. A few weeks ago I posted his measurements at the combine last year, and he left ranked as one of the top athletes on the line.

To get an idea of the kind of athlete he is, I'd check out the video.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jerem ... on?id=2317

I thought so too, but the more i read, he seems to lack the quick twitch / body lean to get around the edge in the NFL. Course Woodley seemed to lack that too, and hes doing fine.

[ReasonablySober]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Wow.

Starting 3-4 MLBs he's bigger than:

Gerald Hayes
Bart Scott
D'Quell Jackson
Bradie James
Zach Thomas
Akin Ayodele
Jerod Mayo
Eric Barton
David Harris
James Farrior
Larry Foote
Stephen Cooper
Takeo Spikes

He's actually going to be one of the biggest MLBs to play in this scheme. As for his speed, you'll have problems finding many that put up the numbers he did at his pro day or at the combine.

[Lippo]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Wow.

Starting 3-4 MLBs he's bigger than:

Gerald Hayes
Bart Scott
D'Quell Jackson
Bradie James
Zach Thomas
Akin Ayodele
Jerod Mayo
Eric Barton
David Harris
James Farrior
Larry Foote
Stephen Cooper
Takeo Spikes

He's actually going to be one of the biggest MLBs to play in this scheme. As for his speed, you'll have problems finding many that put up the numbers he did at his pro day or at the combine.

Haha I beat you to it..... Payback to Mickey for all the Bucks forums lashings

[Ryan5UW]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Slow? He ran a 4.5 at the combine and his pro day. Thats makes him the fastest LB we have, including Barnett. Hes also larger than Barnett and Bishop, making him our biggest ILB. What he lacks to play the OLB spot is the ability to get the QB, and what he lacks inside is the ability to shed blocks(same as Barnett). I think pass rushing moves can be taught easier than getting off blocks, which is a much more difficult ability to learn. Hawk has all the physical attributes to play any LB position, just not the dimeanor

Does that have much, if any relevance to how fast he is today? Hell, I ran the fastest mile in my class in grade school, and now I probably couldn't beat Dan Patrick in a 50 yard race.

[Lippo]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Slow? He ran a 4.5 at the combine and his pro day. Thats makes him the fastest LB we have, including Barnett. Hes also larger than Barnett and Bishop, making him our biggest ILB. What he lacks to play the OLB spot is the ability to get the QB, and what he lacks inside is the ability to shed blocks(same as Barnett). I think pass rushing moves can be taught easier than getting off blocks, which is a much more difficult ability to learn. Hawk has all the physical attributes to play any LB position, just not the dimeanor

Does that have much, if any relevance to how fast he is today? Hell, I ran the fastest mile in my class in grade school, and now I probably couldn't beat Dan Patrick in a 50 yard race.

Yes it does have relevance, its not like LT 25 yrs after the combine. Its 3 years removed, and he probably is still in the 4.5 range making him our Fastest LB. Players dont probably get much slower until closer to their 30's

If I had to bet the LB's current 40's?
Hawk 4.57
Barnett 4.59 when healthy
Bishop 4.64
Poppinga 4.65
Chillar 4.66
Lanasah 4.69

[MickeyDavis]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Slow? He ran a 4.5 at the combine and his pro day. Thats makes him the fastest LB we have, including Barnett. Hes also larger than Barnett and Bishop, making him our biggest ILB. What he lacks to play the OLB spot is the ability to get the QB, and what he lacks inside is the ability to shed blocks(same as Barnett). I think pass rushing moves can be taught easier than getting off blocks, which is a much more difficult ability to learn. Hawk has all the physical attributes to play any LB position, just not the dimeanor

There is a HUGE difference between running a straight line 40 and football speed. A HUGE difference. If you've ever watched Hawk trying to cover a tight end or running back it looked like he was running in quicksand. Straight line speed and football speed are two different things.

[ReasonablySober]

Right, because the NFL is filled with linebackers that can run with running-backs.

[Kerb Hohl]

Hopefully Capers can find a way to use Hawk effectively. But he's too small to play inside and too slow to play outside.

Slow? He ran a 4.5 at the combine and his pro day. Thats makes him the fastest LB we have, including Barnett. Hes also larger than Barnett and Bishop, making him our biggest ILB. What he lacks to play the OLB spot is the ability to get the QB, and what he lacks inside is the ability to shed blocks(same as Barnett). I think pass rushing moves can be taught easier than getting off blocks, which is a much more difficult ability to learn. Hawk has all the physical attributes to play any LB position, just not the dimeanor

There is a HUGE difference between running a straight line 40 and football speed. A HUGE difference. If you've ever watched Hawk trying to cover a tight end or running back it looked like he was running in quicksand. Straight line speed and football speed are two different things.

Another thing Hawk lacks is the ability to change direction in space. Oh my god...it's scary bad to watch.

[MickeyDavis]

If you guys think Hawk isn't slow on the field you're dillusional. I guess if you compare him with Chillar and Poppinga he may have the illusion of speed. But that's all it is. An illusion. I don't care what he ran in shorts 3 years ago. The guy has below average football speed.

[Ryan5UW]

There is a HUGE difference between running a straight line 40 and football speed. A HUGE difference. If you've ever watched Hawk trying to cover a tight end or running back it looked like he was running in quicksand. Straight line speed and football speed are two different things.

That's very true. And yes, I'm not going to put a lot of stock in a pro day 40 time from several years ago. Those are run in perfect conditions and designed to produce the quickest times and best measurables possible. It's amazing how is combine time was 4.59 and then 4.49 and 4.42 at his pro day. Not a big difference when you think of being out on the field in a game, but it goes to show that measurables like that aren't all that people make them out to be. Which, brings us back to what MD says about football speed - there's a big difference. You can tell me what a stopwatch says, and I can tell you what watching a game says, and I think almost everyone will agree that what actually happens out on the field is all that matters.

[Lippo]

There is a HUGE difference between running a straight line 40 and football speed. A HUGE difference. If you've ever watched Hawk trying to cover a tight end or running back it looked like he was running in quicksand. Straight line speed and football speed are two different things.

That's very true. And yes, I'm not going to put a lot of stock in a pro day 40 time from several years ago. Those are run in perfect conditions and designed to produce the quickest times and best measurables possible. It's amazing how is combine time was 4.59 and then 4.49 and 4.42 at his pro day. Not a big difference when you think of being out on the field in a game, but it goes to show that measurables like that aren't all that people make them out to be. Which, brings us back to what MD says about football speed - there's a big difference. You can tell me what a stopwatch says, and I can tell you what watching a game says, and I think almost everyone will agree that what actually happens out on the field is all that matters.

Mickey's arguement was that he to slow to play OLB, so does anyone believe the Kampman(the consensus starting OLB) is faster than Hawk? If you do you are high. Suggs ran a 4.72 vs Hawk's 4.42 that like comparing Chris Johnson to LenDale White in speed. LOL,and Suggs seems fast enough to play OLB.

[MickeyDavis]

I was talking about Hawk's career so far. Too slow to play OLB. It was painfully obvious. I also said I hope Capers can come up with a way to use Hawk effectively. He can't be any worse than he was last year.

It will take time to replace our current linebackers, we have to make do with what we have for now.

As for Kampy as an OLB, Capers has said his main focus will still be rushing the QB. And he's already shown he is very good at that. Hawk hasn't shown he's very good at anything.

[aaprigs311]

I also think Jeremy Thompson will be a pleasant surprise. The only thing that worries me is Thompson and Kampman in coverage. Most of the time they'll be in zone, but when they do man up it could get ugly.

[MickeyDavis]

If Thompson steps up he could make a very big difference.

[Ryan5UW]

Mickey's arguement was that he to slow to play OLB, so does anyone believe the Kampman(the consensus starting OLB) is faster than Hawk? If you do you are high. Suggs ran a 4.72 vs Hawk's 4.42 that like comparing Chris Johnson to LenDale White in speed. LOL,and Suggs seems fast enough to play OLB.

Where do you come up with these stats? If you look at the SI draft profiles for Suggs and Hawk, they have their 40 times listed at 4.61 and 4.67 respectively. I'm not saying either or any of these times are "official" but they probably used times from the same source. That time for Hawk is different than what I found earlier when I looked it up, but this was the only place I could quickly find that had draft profiles for both. My point - 40 yard dash times from when they were entering the draft are irrelevant and vary from source to source (making them even more irrelevant).

[automatic44]

I still don't understand why so many people put so much stock into players 40 times. for pete's sake ahmad carroll ran an amazing 40, but that translated into nothing when it came to actually playing the game. that may be a harsh example, but i prefer to evaluate players by what they do and how they look in a game. like MD said, there is a huge difference between 40 speed and football speed.

now to stay on topic, i am actually pretty optimistic on jeremy thompson. our coaches raved last year about his athleticism and talent, it was just a matter of getting him to unleash it. i do think his pass rushing skills are a bit underrated, he was never in a scheme that allowed him to use them much at wake forest, but i believe we can make something out of him over time. but for now, IMO, our 4 starters going into next season will be Kampman/Hawk/Barnett/Poppinga