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I have mostly been a Ted Thompson supporter throughout his tenure in Green Bay. While I think both sides screwed up the situation, I never believed that Thompson's first agenda was to get Favre out of town as soon as he could. I also realize that he has made shrewd moves in getting rid of some guys that were not popular moves at first (Walker, Green, Wahle, Rivera) and not throwing money at "name" free agents that turned out to be duds anyway.

However, I am growing tired of this "call us if it doesn't work out for you somewhere else" attitude. Today I read that we have no interest in Vonnie Holliday. Now, I'm not saying signing him would make us Super Bowl contenders. However, he is a guy that could be had a reasonable price, who would probably love to come back to Green Bay, and provide some veteran leadership. Not to mention that he has some experience with Capers and the 3-4, you would think it would be a perfect fit.

Are we supposed to believe this "we have more than people think" mantra that is being preached by TT and MM? As I said, TT has made some incredible personnel decisions in the four years that he has been here and has also shown a knack for drafting decently and finding some diamonds in the rough in free agency.

But to somehow believe we are going to sign a couple Frank Walker-type free agents, bring in 8 draft picks, and then expect to be a force in the NFC seems ridiculous to me. I know it is early in free agency yet, and yes, we did have a lot of injuries last year, but at this point how much improvement can we expect with this laid-back attitude?

Good decision making can only go so far if you only make the playoffs once in 5 years.

Agreed. Well put. I love TT's style, but occassionally he needs to stray from it and take a few chances. That's the only way we become serious contenders.

This year more than ever TT has to be a player in free agency because he needs to bring in defensive players that can play the 3-4.

He should be gone if he doesn't go 9-7. He's living in fantasy world if he doesn't know that.

The argument is not whether to build through the draft or in FA. The point is he will have had 5 drafts after this one, and that is enough to supposedly have turned a 4-12 squad into something better than .500 with one playoff appearance in five years in a WEAK division.

I wonder if the Packers are in some sort of real financial difficulty, although for the life of me I couldn't figure out why. First they cancelled that stadium project/renovation and now they continue to vie with Tampa for the most unused cap room.

There is no way our roster projects to compete with the best of the NFC as is. Even with a draft class. And then we have to supposedly wait an average of three more years for this class to excel, if it ever does?

I know everyone likes to think that it's just the Packers and Ted Thompson that are sitting on their asses while free agency is going on. Jollay, you said you want to find just one starter. Adams wouldn't count.

The truth is only 13 teams have brought in a new starter. Less than half the league. This isn't a case of the entire NFL is reshaping their rosters while the Packers do absolutely nothing. The truth is the majority of the NFL either choose not to go nuts that first week of signings, or they can't attract free agents. Either way, Green Bay isn't in the minority, they're in the majority.

Just something to chew on the next time you feel like blasting Thompson as if he's this outcast or lone ranger who's methods fly in the face of conventional wisdom.

Also, take a look around the NFL. Do you think Baltimore liked having to release 25 year old starter Jason Brown? Or not being able to pay Bart Scott, a linebacker that's just entering his prime? How do you think Dallas feels knowing that because they couldn't wait to acquire the bust that is Roy Williams, they couldn't afford to keep Chris Canty? Atlanta couldn't get a deal done with their best cornerback, Foxworth. Green Bay isn't in danger of losing anyone. If the Packers want to keep guys like Collins and Jennings and Colledge, they can do so.

Well, if your argument is that there have been bad acquisitions through FA or via trade, then I guess you win the argument.

We do have the 2nd most cap room in the league, though. And TT can still sign a starter without sacrificing Jennings and Collins.

So really, not sure what you're arguing.

And I guess Colledge as well. Although what he has proven despite a few non-horrible games is beyond me.

Give him Wells money I guess and ensure our lines mediocrity for years to come...

Jollay wrote:Well, if your argument is that there have been bad acquisitions through FA or via trade, then I guess you win the argument.

We do have the 2nd most cap room in the league, though. And TT can still sign a starter without sacrificing Jennings and Collins.

So really, not sure what you're arguing.

And I guess Colledge as well. Although what he has proven despite a few non-horrible games is beyond me.

Give him Wells money I guess and ensure our lines mediocrity for years to come...

What starter?? You keep saying this crap but you come up with no one...also the packers and 90% of every other NFL team refuses to over pay in free agency, are all the other fans this stupid as well? Look at the teams that have been real active in free agency...both New York teams, and they are moving into a brand new stadium with huge PSL's. The Washington Redskins, there owner has done a great job creating a ton of outside revenue but treats this league like fantasy football, and they don't win, although they pick up about 3 starters a year in free agency. The 3rd team to make a "splash" was Seattle and it was an average splash with TJ House, and they have the wealthiest owner in all of football.

Next year the Packers not only have Jennings, Collins, and Colledge becoming free agents but Kampman is on that list as well. Colledge is a very good young player who made a leap last year, not real impressed with your ability to judge talent. You'll be the first to bitch when the Packers can't sign half of there free agents in what could easily be an uncapped year after next season.

Go ahead, fire Thompson, bring in a GM that is all about spending big money in free agency, those guys have had huge success. We then can get a new coach, probably a new QB who fits the sytem of the new coach, maybe a new defensive scheme....turnover is a great thing right? In 2 years when he blows big money on worthless free agents, just like this years class, we can fire his ass to and start over from scratch.

The out of pocket revenue is something I don't think many fans get. Last season I posted a link regarding the disparity between those that can go and buy themselves a team and those that can't. I don't think this is news to anyone, but the Packers can't. Cap space doesn't necessarily mean you actually have the money to spend, much less compete with those that do.

Captain Erv wrote:
Good decision making can only go so far if you only make the playoffs once in 5 years.

I've said many times that i don't care so much what philosophy Thompson chooses to use in building the Packers, there is no single one blueprint that a GM has to follow and still win football games. If he wants to use a play it safe and build almost entirely via the draft, so be it, but then he better draft well enough so that the team wins. Getting Rodgers was huge in allowing Ted the chance to keep the Packers a good team.

All that said, if i was the owner and the Packers missed the playoffs yet again this year, i'd strongly consider replacing him unless there were a ton of injuries which is something no GM can control besides making sure the roster has solid depth. Last year we did have injuries, but the lack of any quality depth on the DL hurt, as did the fact that Rouse was so terrible in filling in for Bigby.

Some fans IMO have been overly harsh on Thompson, especially because of the Favre situation. In the end though, pro sports are a bottom line business and Ted runs everything. He didn't take over a miserable situation like say the Lions or Rams new GM are, if we miss the playoffs four out of five years under his watch, he isn't doing a quality job as the GM.

xTitan wrote:

Jollay wrote:Well, if your argument is that there have been bad acquisitions through FA or via trade, then I guess you win the argument.

We do have the 2nd most cap room in the league, though. And TT can still sign a starter without sacrificing Jennings and Collins.

So really, not sure what you're arguing.

And I guess Colledge as well. Although what he has proven despite a few non-horrible games is beyond me.

Give him Wells money I guess and ensure our lines mediocrity for years to come...

What starter?? You keep saying this crap but you come up with no one

Next year the Packers not only have Jennings, Collins, and Colledge becoming free agents but Kampman is on that list as well. Colledge is a very good young player who made a leap last year, not real impressed with your ability to judge talent. You'll be the first to bitch when the Packers can't sign half of there free agents in what could easily be an uncapped year after next season.

This argument would be relevant if we couldnt resign all of these guys and still sign a starter this year in FA.

Colledge has been average at best and he has been playing three years. When does all-pro Colledge kick in? Year 5?

Colledge was a our best offensive lineman last season. I understand that isn't saying a ton, but he made a big leap forward last season and he's absolutely a tackle of the future.

Totally agree with this thread. I was a huge TT supporter over the past 2 or 3 years. I loved the way he stuck to his guns and built through the draft. Made the ocassional veteran signing in Woodson and Pickett. Getting smaller pieces through FA like Bigby, Chillar, etc. Drafting very good talent in Jennings, Blackmon, Williams, and trading for Grant. However with this new system coming in and us going 6-10 even if "we could have been 11-5 with the amount of close games we lost" we still need some new veteran faces on this team. And Thompson has done nothing but sit on his hands all off season. We are huge under the cap and failed to make a run at the perfect fit for this defense in bart Scott. However unlikely it would have been to get him, just reach out. And however minor this is, this is kind of what put me over the top in Holliday. He led the Dolphins last year and sacks and tackles for the DL while playing only 60 percent of the snaps (this could be off just thought I remember reading that), the guy started his career in Green Bay, would love to come back and we dont even talk to him. I really dont even see what he can do in the draft. The only legit position to come in and start right away is OT most likely. Maybe he goes out and takes a chance on Andre Smith (which I would personally love) but you can almost already rule it out for it not being his style. Vent over, but I am sure there is more to come over the next few months. I still think he is a good GM, who is probably one of the best at building a team but once he built it, can he keep it there on top, I say no with his style of GM'in

Holliday is 33 year old and nearing the end of his career. Is he really going to put Green Bay over the top?

Bart Scott was going to play for Baltimore or Rex Ryan in NY, where his wife wanted to go. She's big into fashion and they've gone to shows. He and her are big into the culture of the Big Apple.

I already said that the majority of the NFL has 'sat on their hands'.

OK, next?

I said earlier that Bart Scott really had no chance of playing here but we are so far under the cap, atleast find it out if he wants to. Talk to him atleast. I didnt say Holliiday would put us over the top. He would start as a DE in our new system. Not every FA that teams sign put them over the top. He would have been a very serviceable starter for 2 years. He showed last year he could still get it done. And I believe we are the only team so far to not make one signing bet it re-signing one of our guys or signing someone else. So really not everyone is sitting on their hands. Anything else??

We only had, what, two unrestricted free agents and wanted neither.

DrugBust wrote:Holliday is 33 year old and nearing the end of his career. Is he really going to put Green Bay over the top?

So no player should ever be picked up unless he'll for sure win us a Super Bowl?

In the NBA i'm all for doing everything and anything to try and find a star because for any chance to win it all, you need a superstar because if you want to be in the NBA Finals, you have to have a stud player.

In todays NFL though, just getting into the playoffs is by far the biggest key, the the Cardinals and the Giants the previous year surprised everyone by making the Super Bowl. The days IMO of dominant NFL teams for multiple years are either over or they'll be the exceptions. I'd liken it a bit to baseball were we've seen a solid number of good, but non-great teams make the playoffs and then beat better teams on their way to a World Series bid. You no longer have to put together a great team to get to the Super Bowl in most years, but you do have to get into the playoffs for a chance.

Now i didn't watch the Dolphins play last year beyond half watching parts of two games and i paid zero attention to Holliday. That said, IF he is better than what we already have on the team at the other DE spot, i don't give a crap that he's 33 so long as he could help us next year and maybe the following year get into the playoffs. He certainly won't cost big time cash and we need depth up front, we saw last year what happens when you have garbage backing up your starters and someone gets hurt. Many wondered why the Giants would sign Canty even though they already have a good DL, but they smartly know games are won/lost in the trenches and if you have quality depth on the DL, the defense won't fall apart if an injury happens which is common in football.

Again, i don't know how much Holliday has left, but i simply just reject this idea that it's only worth signing a free agent if it will "put you over the top". But hey, if Ted shuns free agency and is able to put a team on the field next year that makes the playoffs, i'll certainly give him credit. All i care about is if we win or not. If though he puts together a team that goes say 6-10/7-9/8-8 and misses the playoffs for a 4th time in his tenure, don't look for me to make more excuses for the failure to win games, i'll leave that for others to do because he'll then deserve the darts that surely will get thrown at him.

DrugBust wrote:Colledge was a our best offensive lineman last season. I understand that isn't saying a ton, but he made a big leap forward last season and he's absolutely a tackle of the future.

I'm not against signing him and moving him to tackle. In fact my plan, would be to move him there, and get a starting guard or center in FA to replace him. (Wells to Guard if Center).

And then draft a tackle in the 2nd-4th rounds, somewhere in there.

But I dont understand where he has proven he's a must sign or should get six million a year or anything.

DrugBust wrote:Holliday is 33 year old and nearing the end of his career. Is he really going to put Green Bay over the top?

Bart Scott was going to play for Baltimore or Rex Ryan in NY, where his wife wanted to go. She's big into fashion and they've gone to shows. He and her are big into the culture of the Big Apple.

I already said that the majority of the NFL has 'sat on their hands'.

OK, next?

DB, you're making the same mistake you did before the 13-3 season.

You add talent if you get the chance.

There's an argument you guys have against everyone. I fail to be believe every significant free agent in the NFL isnt worth it or doesn't want to come to GB.

Sign any starter, TT. Any starter. Your choice.

I agree, it seems odd to dismiss every potential FA because he won't "put you over the top". This team has a long way to go before getting to that point.

I don't understand why TT isn't interested in Holliday.

Holliday would come cheaper than a guy like Canty, and provide close to the same level of production. Holliday's age is irrelevant; he would be a stopgap for at most a couple years. It would allow for a younger player to be groomed for the position. Even if Holliday was to lose the starting job in training camp somehow, the team would still have quality depth.

There must be more to the story, or maybe Ted has his sights set on someone else.