Alvarez: Big Ten to push for 12th team

[Mags FTW]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4735336

Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez says the Big Ten will soon make a more aggressive push toward adding a 12th member.

Speaking to Wisconsin's athletic board on Friday, Alvarez, the former longtime Badgers football coach, said the conference already has investigated possibilities for expansion "from all over the country." And though he places no timetable on the search, Alvarez thinks Delany will respond to a group of athletic directors and coaches who want expansion.

"I have a sense he is going to take this year to really be more aggressive about it," Alvarez told the board. "I just think everybody feels [expansion] is the direction to go, coaches and administrators."

Penn State football coach Joe Paterno has been the most vocal advocate of a 12th Big Ten team, and he has support from several of his fellow coaches.

A 12th team would allow the Big Ten to split into divisions and hold a conference championship game. The Big Ten typically ends its football season two weeks before the other BCS conferences, though an addition of a permanent bye week in 2010 will shrink the gap by a week.

[Mags FTW]

I doubt the Notre Dame thing ever happens. They might be stuck with a CUSA or MAC team.

[MikeIsGood]

Well first, although I suppose it's noteworthy that Alvarez says this (again), it's nothing new. They've been having discussions with teams and amongst themselves for years. But it's nice to see they're "serious" now.

But anyways, they're definitely not stuck with a CUSA or MAC team. Teams that have been discussed include Rutgers, Nebraska, Missouri, Pittsburgh and Syracuse. Not that all of those schools would jump at the chance of joining the Big Ten, but I've never heard of a non-power conference school being discussed.

The tricky part with getting a twelfth team into the conference is the academic standards, which most conferences do not have. The Big Ten is a collection of research-intensive institutions, in case anyone is unaware, and no university will be admitted unless they're members of the Association of American Universities. Could a new school join and be admitted to the AAU later? I guess I'm not sure, but I doubt they'd let it work that way. I don't think you just 'join' the AAU.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm looking at possibilities and I'm not seeing much.

In the MAC:
Central Michigan?
Toledo/Akron/Ohio don't seem like ones they'd want.

Iowa State would make some sense but I don't see the Big 12 really allowing that because they will then have the same problem.

Unless we grab Iowa State and somebody like Utah or Boise goes into the Big 12 (granted, Boise is a little bit out of the way for the Big 12 region).

In CUSA Houston would make sense if they weren't so far away but I guess that is similar to having Washington and Arizona in the PAC 10 as far as distances go.

Outside the box: One of the SDSU/NDSU gets bumped to D1 if they aren't already and join the B10?
Cincinnati also makes sense.
UW-Whitewater becomes Wisconsin State?

[Kerb Hohl]

Well first, although I suppose it's noteworthy that Alvarez says this (again), it's nothing new. They've been having discussions with teams and amongst themselves for years. But it's nice to see they're "serious" now.

But anyways, they're definitely not stuck with a CUSA or MAC team. Teams that have been discussed include Rutgers, Nebraska, Missouri, Pittsburgh and Syracuse. Not that all of those schools would jump at the chance of joining the Big Ten, but I've never heard of a non-power conference school being discussed.

The tricky part with getting a twelfth team into the conference is the academic standards, which most conferences do not have. The Big Ten is a collection of research-intensive institutions, in case anyone is unaware, and no university will be admitted unless they're members of the Association of American Universities. Could a new school join and be admitted to the AAU later? I guess I'm not sure, but I doubt they'd let it work that way. I don't think you just 'join' the AAU.

Well this clears a few things up for me then.

[MikeIsGood]

Okay I decided to look it up. Admission into the AAU is by invitation only. I don't think they'd admit a team into the AAU so that the Big Ten could have a football title game (obviously not that simple but you get my point).

So if we're talking about a 12th team, the following are the realistic possibilities (whether we'd want them, they'd want us, or not):

Iowa State, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Syracuse. MAYBE Vanderbilt or Virginia. Neither meet the "requirement" of being within a state of a current Big Ten school, but they're both close (Tennessee -> Illinois, Virginia -> Pennsylvania).

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

I have always been a fan of adding a team, separating the conference into 2 divisions (most likely east/west) and having a conference championship game. I think it would really help the conference. As it is now, the BigTen seems to be forgotten when all the other conferences are playing their championship games.

I could see Rutgers (and Syracuse to a lesser degree) because the Big Ten Network could get in to the New York tv market. Iowa St because of it's geographic location and it's ties to Iowa and Minnesota.

I'd be a fan of adding any of the following: Notre Dame, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, and Pittsburgh.

I wonder what the conference name/logo would change to. I propose the "Bigger 12".

[El Duderino]

I have always been a fan of adding a team, separating the conference into 2 divisions (most likely east/west) and having a conference championship game. I think it would really help the conference. As it is now, the BigTen seems to be forgotten when all the other conferences are playing their championship games.

I could see Rutgers (and Syracuse to a lesser degree) because the Big Ten Network could get in to the New York tv market. Iowa St because of it's geographic location and it's ties to Iowa and Minnesota.

I'd be a fan of adding any of the following: Notre Dame, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, and Pittsburgh.

I wonder what the conference name/logo would change to. I propose the "Bigger 12".

Why would schools like Missouri or Nebraska want to leave the Big 12 to join the Big 10? The Big 12 is already more highly thought of as a power conference and those schools have the tradition of playing in the Big 12 for a long time.

As for schools like Pittsburgh or Syracuse, for football reasons i could see why they might want to join the Big 10, but i'd assume the basketball programs would balk at that.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

If a school is approached to join the BigTen, who ultimately has the final say in deciding if they want to join or not? The school's president? Some sort of board? Just curious. I wonder how much say the athletic director would have compared to the school president and other people in the educational hierarchy. Is it mostly an athletic department decision or mostly an educational decision?

[MikeIsGood]

Why would schools like Missouri or Nebraska want to leave the Big 12 to join the Big 10? The Big 12 is already more highly thought of as a power conference and those schools have the tradition of playing in the Big 12 for a long time.

As for schools like Pittsburgh or Syracuse, for football reasons i could see why they might want to join the Big 10, but i'd assume the basketball programs would balk at that.

"It's all about the benjamins."

The Big Ten Network is making all 11 universities a ton of money. The BTN is by far
more far-reaching than any other of the conference's networks that have followed in the Big Ten's footsteps. I believe the SEC's new network is second on the list, and again I believe that the Big Ten Network is in 30 million more households than the SEC's. To my understanding, the other conference's TV networks are more like glorified versions of ESPN Plus. BTN is available in 19 of the 20 biggest markets.

I'm not saying it's a guarantee that any school would jump at the opportunity to join the conference. But for monetary reasons alone I bet they'd consider it. FWIW I agree that it likely wouldn't be Missouri or Nebraska. Just making the point.

On an unrelated note, I see little reason for Pittsburgh to balk at joining the Big Ten from a basketball standpoint. There is nothing wrong with B10 basketball, despite what ESPN might tell you, and the future is bright considering it's completely loaded with coaching talent. In addition, Pitt plays a Big Ten brand of basketball. They'd fit right in, and they've actually been my favorite to join the conference for years now.

EDIT: As far as Syracuse goes, while the Big Ten is already a great basketball conference with a ton of history, adding Syracuse to the bunch just makes it that much better. The Big East as it is now is not going to last. It's too big. Someone's going to leave eventually. Boehiem has expressed concerns over there being too many teams multiple times, and how it has affected their NCAA chances.

And I'm sure, again monetarily, the Big Ten would love to break into the New York market.

[Kerb Hohl]

I could see Rutgers (and Syracuse to a lesser degree) because the Big Ten Network could get in to the New York tv market. Iowa St because of it's geographic location and it's ties to Iowa and Minnesota.

Funny, actually, my girlfriend (who is from NYC), is out there for a week and not only does her dad (Wisconsin alum) have BTN, she and her friend were looking for it on DirecTV a few hours ago while asking what channel it might be on the phone. And they did have it. I don't know if I have SEC or Big East television on my amped up DirecTV package here(I think they have similar networks) but the BTN somewhat already there.

Obviously getting Cuse or Rutgers in would amplify it as it isn't in the "basic package" for sure, but you'd be surprised at how many of the people who actually care about college athletics hail from a B10 or similar school not near that city. Granted, it is a big city so you're going to get people from all walks of life, but because there aren't really any rah rah schools in the city and Syracuse isn't a state school nor does a large part of the New York City population care that much about Syracuse (from my experience, at least) and Rutgers isn't too far away but I didn't see much Rutgers pep around there either.

Anyways, all that said, I agree with your points anyways, I'm just rambling about the coincidences, but a lot of the people that went to a college with any spirit might have gone to an OSU, Michigan, etc. Their state schools are much different there than here, and actually my girlfriend was laughing at the pep when we went to a high school football game in Wisconsin because few of the schools she grew up near even had football. That said, Don Bosco in jersey is a football factory but it seems like a lot of the pep around college football is transposed into that market from people that went out of the city for college and then returned later on. Everyone in that city thinks it is the only worthwhile city in existence and does return.

Also, a lot of the schools around there that people may go to are smaller, private schools with limited fanbase (numbers-wise, compared to a UW, Minn, OSU). If they went to nearby Philly to Nova or something there is a great basketball program there but the student body is small. Rutgers is a pretty big school, though, I believe.

Judging by your user name, you've been around the block and know some of this already, probably, but just a ramble about the New York college sports market.

[trwi7]

That sucks about the AAU. It would be nice to dip down into Texas to get one of their smaller schools like TCU or Houston.

Based on the AAU requirements, I'd say the most likely go as follows.

1. Iowa State
2. Pittsburgh
3. Kansas
4. Missouri

Then the conferences would go like this for Iowa State, Kansas and Missouri.

East: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Indiana, Purdue

West: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa State/Kansas/Missouri

If Pittsburgh was the team you'd probably have to move Indiana or Purdue to the West and put Pittsburgh in the East.

[WEFFPIM]

Back away, fellas. It's NIU's time to shine!

[El Duderino]

Why would schools like Missouri or Nebraska want to leave the Big 12 to join the Big 10? The Big 12 is already more highly thought of as a power conference and those schools have the tradition of playing in the Big 12 for a long time.

As for schools like Pittsburgh or Syracuse, for football reasons i could see why they might want to join the Big 10, but i'd assume the basketball programs would balk at that.

On an unrelated note, I see little reason for Pittsburgh to balk at joining the Big Ten from a basketball standpoint. There is nothing wrong with B10 basketball, despite what ESPN might tell you, and the future is bright considering it's completely loaded with coaching talent. In addition, Pitt plays a Big Ten brand of basketball. They'd fit right in, and they've actually been my favorite to join the conference for years now.

EDIT: As far as Syracuse goes, while the Big Ten is already a great basketball conference with a ton of history, adding Syracuse to the bunch just makes it that much better. The Big East as it is now is not going to last. It's too big. Someone's going to leave eventually. Boehiem has expressed concerns over there being too many teams multiple times, and how it has affected their NCAA chances.

And I'm sure, again monetarily, the Big Ten would love to break into the New York market.

Basketball wise, i wasn't slamming Big Ten basketball, just that Syracuse and Pittsburgh are so connected and identified with being a part of Big East basketball along with rivalries formed that i could see the coaches/fans not wanting to move. That said, it is true that the bottom line money could be something where the schools just said, suck it up and begin forming new rivalries.

[Kerb Hohl]

I think a huge thing for Pitt and to an extent the Cuse is is that they heavily rely on NYC for recruiting. That includes playing at the Garden for the Big East tourney and playing local games. Not sure how that would affect things.

[MikeIsGood]

ElDude, gotcha. Syracuse / UConn, for one, would be hard to break up. For Pittsburgh, though, it would actually renew their rivalry with Penn State.

Ultimately I think the 12th team will come from the Big East. It makes too much sense.

There are obviously other factors, but the money-makers are basketball and football, and with both sports you could argue that they'd be better off in the Big Ten.

Basketball: The Big East is too big. As I mentioned, numerous coaches including Boehiem have expressed that the size of the Big East could be negatively impacting their chances of making the NCAA tournament, which is a big money source obviously and also one of the bottom-lines in college basketball. I just do not believe the conference is not going to last as is. Even if they deserve it, the committee just isn't going to let 10 schools into the tournament (just as an example).

Football: Big East football is hanging on by a thread. They've already barely escaped being contracted as a BCS conference, and even if the BCS were to be no more, they have no perennial powers. In fact, it seems to be a place that coaches start off at before moving onto bigger jobs. People said Rich Rod might stay because the Big East is his to own so long as he stayed at WVU. But as soon as a great job came along, he was gone. Brian Kelly is gone now too. Randy Edsall was connected to Notre Dame, also. And a bigger point is that bowl revenue is shared by teams. The Big East doesn't pull in a lot of bowl revenue. Big Ten? Money in the bank.

Besides that, I already mentioned the advantages the Big Ten Network brings. It just makes too much sense for one of the Big East schools not to move. At least, in my opinion. Don't know when it will happen, and really I don't know if it will happen of course. But that's my two cents.

I keep saying that it makes too much sense to not happen. That probably means it won't. :shrug:

[Aaron It Out]

I think Iowa State would jump at the same chance to get in the same conference as Iowa. It would heat up their rivalry a bit more since their games would mean a lot more.

[WEFFPIM]

Based on what has happened the past week with Brian Kelly heading to Notre Dame, and how Cincy isn't a prime destination for recruits, I'd lay good odds Cincinnati would want to jump into the Big 10 if they get the opportunity.

[MikeIsGood]

They won't. Not in the AAU.

[MikeIsGood]

Well, we might know more today at 3PM