Wk7: Why Bother Watching or Playing? Pats @ Olphins

Post #1 » by **Lane1974** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:03 pm

no D in Dolphins anymore

Post #2 » by **unowen85** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:53 pm

The Phins should lose the game on purpose and stay on track for the first overall.

Post #3 » by **heat4life** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:44 pm

They don't deserve a game thread either...

travis minor · Post #4 » by **travis minor** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:03 pm

Our superbowl

tessai · Post #5 » by **tessai** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:24 pm

unowen85 wrote:The Phins should lose the game on purpose and stay on track for the first overall.

...because the only way the Phins will lose is if they do it on purpose.

Scum Freezebag · Post #6 » by **Scum Freezebag** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:52 am

Ronnie Brown is the only reason to get up out of bed Sunday mornings.

Post #7 » by **Flash3** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:29 am

unowen85 wrote:The Phins should lose the game on purpose and stay on track for the first overall.

as long as they make it exciting....

Post #8 » by **unowen85** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:48 pm

Sammy Morris is out for the game. The Patriots don't know what's coming.

Post #9 » by **Flash3** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:07 am

Whoever can run the ball for them will put up 120+ on our D.

Book it!

travis minor · Post #10 » by **travis minor** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:17 am

big game to see if ronnie can run on a decent defense

anyone remember the vikings game last year, yuck

Post #11 » by **Lane1974** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:30 am

well now without CC I bet they jam the box and make Hagan or Booker or Ginn prove they can beat us

Post #12 » by **heat4life** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:01 pm

^^^
You are probably right; not that Chambers used to scary any DC out there. IMO Ginn JR speed might command more respect than anything Chambers did for us. As for Hagan, the kid can get open. He just needs to catch them more often. I am kind of surprised they haven't promoted Kerry Reed yet. The kid showed he could come up with a catch during pre-season. We should take a look to see if we have something there.

Post #13 » by **mopper8** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:43 pm

heat4life wrote:^^^
You are probably right; not that Chambers used to scary any DC out there. IMO Ginn JR speed might command more respect than anything Chambers did for us. As for Hagan, the kid can get open. He just needs to catch them more often. I am kind of surprised they haven't promoted Kerry Reed yet. The kid showed he could come up with a catch during pre-season. We should take a look to see if we have something there.

Eh, they'll just back their corners up most likely, at least at first.

Teams were definitely shading safeties over to Chambers all the time.

Post #14 » by **heat4life** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:22 pm

mopper8 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Eh, they'll just back their corners up most likely, at least at first.

Teams were definitely shading safeties over to Chambers all the time.

Backing up the opponent corners is a bit more respect than what Chambers and his speed ever got. Don't get me wrong, the jury is still out on Ginn JR to prove he can do something with that speed but his playmaking skills and speed are going to be a plus IF he can use it at this level. I mean, do you back away to get an advantage on his speed or do you jam him at the line to avoid him catching a short pass and turning it into a big play with his playmaking skills.

Does that sound like Chambers in the last 7 years to you?

Safety or not, Chambers had problems getting open. Elite WR overcome double coverage more often than not. I believe we can all agree that "elite" he is not. I think Chamber is a good WR but not a 1st option which is why I think he will succeed in San Diego. He won't be the 1st or 2nd option to the QB and he'll get plenty of opportunities because of Gates and LT.

Post #15 » by **mopper8** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:41 pm

heat4life wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Backing up the opponent corners is a bit more respect than what Chambers and his speed ever got.

Uh, no, you're wrong here. Chambers got a lot of respect from opposing defenses. Part of that was a function of the talent around him, sure, but he got doubled up all the time, or had corners back off him. He rarely saw man coverage right at the line. Seriously, you're kidding yourself if you think that's true. That's precisely why most analysts are saying he's gonna do so well in San Diego--he's gonna have much less attention paid to him there than he had here.

Don't get me wrong, the jury is still out on Ginn JR to prove he can do something with that speed but his playmaking skills and speed are going to be a plus IF he can use it at this level. I mean, do you back away to get an advantage on his speed or do you jam him at the line to avoid him catching a short pass and turning it into a big play with his playmaking skills.

Does that sound like Chambers in the last 7 years to you?

Meh, if there's nobody else around him, and nobody can throw him the ball, he'll be just as mediocre. How many times did Chambers get open deep only to have the pass sail over 15 yards over his head, not even close to where he was?

If we pair Ginn with a bunch of slow receivers and a string of mediocre QBs, he'll get doubled all the time too. And maybe he'll be able to beat that, or maybe he won't (the very best guys, the TOs, Randy Mosses, Marvin Harrisons, et al) are able to dominate no matter what coverage they see. But that has to do with a lot more than just a guy's speed.

Safety or not, Chambers had problems getting open. Elite WR overcome double coverage more often than not. I believe we can all agree that "elite" he is not. I think Chamber is a good WR but not a 1st option which is why I think he will succeed in San Diego. He won't be the 1st or 2nd option to the QB and he'll get plenty of opportunities because of Gates and LT.

So...we agree. Yeah, Chambers isn't "elite", i.e., he isn't one of the 5 best WRs in football. Big deal! How many guys consistently beat double coverage? TO, Randy Moss, Steve Smith, Torry Holt come to mind. Anyone else? Even Marvin Harrison probably could but he doesn't have to, with Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Addai/Edge around him, and a QB who'll find whoever is open the vast majority of the time. Same with guys like Chad Johnson (who's got TJ Houshmanzedah) and Larry Fitz (with Anquan Boldin)

But still, we're talking about maybe 8 guys in the league who can do what you're faulting Chambers for not doing. Sure, Ginn could be a guy like that, and it would amazing if he is, but again--that will mean he's special for a lot more than just his speed. That means he'll have to run great routes, read defenses well, have great hands, have some talent around him, etc etc.

I think you're really over-simplifying things here.

Post #16 » by **heat4life** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:13 pm

mopper8 wrote:Uh, no, you're wrong here. Chambers got a lot of respect from opposing defenses. Part of that was a function of the talent around him, sure, but he got doubled up all the time, or had corners back off him. He rarely saw man coverage right at the line. Seriously, you're kidding yourself if you think that's true. That's precisely why most analysts are saying he's gonna do so well in San Diego--he's gonna have much less attention paid to him there than he had here.

See, that is where we think differently. You believe that because Chambers was the best of a mediocre bunch of offensive players that he actually commanded respect. I believe that if you are a DC and have to defend 3 mediocre players plus one ok player, it is a no brainer to double the one player that had better odds at beating you. I just don't call that respect.

Meh, if there's nobody else around him, and nobody can throw him the ball, he'll be just as mediocre. How many times did Chambers get open deep only to have the pass sail over 15 yards over his head, not even close to where he was?

If we pair Ginn with a bunch of slow receivers and a string of mediocre QBs, he'll get doubled all the time too. And maybe he'll be able to beat that, or maybe he won't (the very best guys, the TOs, Randy Mosses, Marvin Harrisons, et al) are able to dominate no matter what coverage they see. But that has to do with a lot more than just a guy's speed.

I am not gooing to argue about Ginn because he hasn't proved anything yet. His best asset is his speed and given that he is a rookie he has the benefit of the use of the word "potential". It is just speculation but it is one that can become true still. Let's see what happens.

Chambers has been in this league for 7 years and besides his one Pro Bowl season he hasn't shown to better than Marty Booker who has more 1,000 yards seasons than him. Wes Welker was out best WR last season. What happened to Chambers? At some point we need to question the receiver and stop blaming QB's and OC's.

So...we agree. Yeah, Chambers isn't "elite", i.e., he isn't one of the 5 best WRs in football. Big deal! How many guys consistently beat double coverage? TO, Randy Moss, Steve Smith, Torry Holt come to mind. Anyone else? Even Marvin Harrison probably could but he doesn't have to, with Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Addai/Edge around him, and a QB who'll find whoever is open the vast majority of the time. Same with guys like Chad Johnson (who's got TJ Houshmanzedah) and Larry Fitz (with Anquan Boldin)

But still, we're talking about maybe 8 guys in the league who can do what you're faulting Chambers for not doing. Sure, Ginn could be a guy like that, and it would amazing if he is, but again--that will mean he's special for a lot more than just his speed. That means he'll have to run great routes, read defenses well, have great hands, have some talent around him, etc etc.

I think you're really over-simplifying things here.

I don't think Chambers even belongs with the 2nd tier of WR in this league (ex. Houshmanzedah). I believe he is in that 3rd tier with the Marty Booker's and Wes Welkers. But I guess we can agree to disagree.

I don't fault Chambers from not being like Moss, TO etc (although his salary suggests otherwise). Not many WR are like that 1st tier. But he has several other faults like not being able to get separation from coverage and dropped balls. He only did it once and that was his Pro Bowl season (actually the last 8 or so games of that season only because if I remember correctly he stunk as usual at the beginning of that season too until he had a monster game of over 200 yrds and a couple of others in the 150's).

It is not me over-simplifying just stating what he has shown to me in the last 7 years. Is he going to well in San Diego? Yes he will. Just like Booker would and Wes Welker would. Chambers is more attractive because of his speed over the other two but "at this point" doubt he is the best of the 3 receivers.

Chambers was a nice guy and a crowd favorite so I liked him as much as you do. I pulled for him to live up to that potential, even after Tuesday's trade but in reality I can't blame his shortcomings to anyone but himself. Let's put the sentimentalism aside and call it how it is.

WD · Post #17 » by WD » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:04 pm

This will only be my second game on TV in my area, I am going to tape it to my DVD, cause for some reason I feel good about todays game.

Win or lose, i like the fact that the owner may be putting the fire under the organization.

Go dolphins, my dad says he can remember exactly where he was when they went undefeated, he was in high school. I hear that story every week.

Post #18 » by **unowen85** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:48 pm

Ted Ginn is starting alongside Booker today. Taking more steps in the right direction. Now all we need is Beck starting.

Post #19 » by **Lane1974** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:10 pm

my prediction: Cleo gets hurt, Beck gets hurt, Marty Booker throws 6 TDs in the 4th to lead us to victory

Post #20 » by **Lane1974** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:54 pm

Greg Gumble & Dan Dierdorf are calling the game

very alliterative