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OT: Patriots

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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#21 » by Homerclease » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:37 am

Bad-Thoma wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:
canman1971 wrote:Certainly wasn't a TD as the knee was down, but definitely should have been pass interference on the interception. But, so is life.


Knee had nothing to do with it. He wasn't touched and it isn't college. It was overruled because he didn't hang on to the ball as he hit the ground.


Exactly, the ground can cause an incompletion even in the end zone as long as the player hasn't made a "football move" beforehand, and catching on the way to the ground without controlling it all the way through the landing doesn't qualify as a football move. **** way to lose for Pitt and I'm sure all the haters will assume Brady somehow whisked air out of the ball from the sideline but we'll take the win.

He caught the ball and reached for the goal line, it was a football move and very similar to the Dez call of a few years ago. Terrible application of the rules. That was a clear touchdown
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#22 » by Bad-Thoma » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:44 am

Homerclease wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:
Knee had nothing to do with it. He wasn't touched and it isn't college. It was overruled because he didn't hang on to the ball as he hit the ground.


Exactly, the ground can cause an incompletion even in the end zone as long as the player hasn't made a "football move" beforehand, and catching on the way to the ground without controlling it all the way through the landing doesn't qualify as a football move. **** way to lose for Pitt and I'm sure all the haters will assume Brady somehow whisked air out of the ball from the sideline but we'll take the win.

He caught the ball and reached for the goal line, it was a football move and very similar to the Dez call of a few years ago. Terrible application of the rules. That was a clear touchdown


I disagree, whenever a receiver catches the ball in a dive or semi dive and the ground knocks the ball lose they consistently call that incomplete. The rule is consistently applied but people only remember it when it costs the team like this or like Dez. I don't find it all that subjective, and apparently you don't either so let's agree to disagree on this one, we both have better things to do.

edit: going add this in from CBS sports, it's an excerpt from the NFL rule book:

If you read the NFL rulebook, it was not a catch (again, even if the rule is stupid). From Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 in the NFL rulebook, which explicitly lays out the situation at hand:

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#23 » by Homerclease » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:06 am

Bad-Thoma wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
Exactly, the ground can cause an incompletion even in the end zone as long as the player hasn't made a "football move" beforehand, and catching on the way to the ground without controlling it all the way through the landing doesn't qualify as a football move. **** way to lose for Pitt and I'm sure all the haters will assume Brady somehow whisked air out of the ball from the sideline but we'll take the win.

He caught the ball and reached for the goal line, it was a football move and very similar to the Dez call of a few years ago. Terrible application of the rules. That was a clear touchdown


I disagree, whenever a receiver catches the ball in a dive or semi dive and the ground knocks the ball lose they consistently call that incomplete. The rule is consistently applied but people only remember it when it costs the team like this or like Dez. I don't find it all that subjective, and apparently you don't either so let's agree to disagree on this one, we both have better things to do.

edit: going add this in from CBS sports, it's an excerpt from the NFL rule book:

If you read the NFL rulebook, it was not a catch (again, even if the rule is stupid). From Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 in the NFL rulebook, which explicitly lays out the situation at hand:

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

It’s no different than a ballcarrier leaping for the end zone. Soon as the ball breaks the plain it’s over. He had possession long before the ground dislodged the ball after he scored
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#24 » by rmal8852 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:10 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Everything else aside, don’t throw a slant on the goal line vs the Patriots. It just won’t end well.


I still don't think that that dumbass Pete Carroll believes that, EVEN NOW.....DOPE :banghead: ...haha
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#25 » by Bad-Thoma » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:15 am

Homerclease wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:
Homerclease wrote:He caught the ball and reached for the goal line, it was a football move and very similar to the Dez call of a few years ago. Terrible application of the rules. That was a clear touchdown


I disagree, whenever a receiver catches the ball in a dive or semi dive and the ground knocks the ball lose they consistently call that incomplete. The rule is consistently applied but people only remember it when it costs the team like this or like Dez. I don't find it all that subjective, and apparently you don't either so let's agree to disagree on this one, we both have better things to do.

edit: going add this in from CBS sports, it's an excerpt from the NFL rule book:

If you read the NFL rulebook, it was not a catch (again, even if the rule is stupid). From Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 in the NFL rulebook, which explicitly lays out the situation at hand:

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

It’s no different than a ballcarrier leaping for the end zone. Soon as the ball breaks the plain it’s over. He had possession long before the ground dislodged the ball after he scored


Read the rule again. It is quite different. You have to establish that you are a runner before the ball breaking the plane creates the dead ball situation and a touch down, this rule clearly covers how a player in this situation hasn't established possession of the ball according to the rules therefore he cannot be considered a runner.


Here's a link to the full article, it explains it better and more sympathetically than I can, I am out as I have beer to drink and video games to play.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-catch-rule-rears-its-ugly-head-to-deny-steelers-a-late-td-in-bid-to-beat-patriots/
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#26 » by Froob » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:34 am

That was a nail biter...had $50 on Pats -3 lol. What a win. Steelers should have had two guys hold the **** outta Gronk once he started killing them that drive.

That was absolutely the right call, he lost the ball in the process of catching it.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#27 » by 31to6 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:35 am

Smitty731 wrote:
Homerclease wrote:Awful call. Knee down doesn’t mean a damn thing as he wasn’t touched. Guy caught the ball, secured it, made a football move and broke the plain with the ball. Touchdown.


I think this one falls under the "correct call, awful rule" category. Same deal as Dez a couple of years ago.

That said, Pitt should have picked that one from Brady on the Pats last drive. If you give Brady a second chance, he will beat you every time.

And Roethlisberger should have thrown that ball away instead of forcing it. Could have kicked the FG and went to OT.

I expect them to play again in the AFC Championship. No one else in the AFC is on par with either team.


I know this is where everyone is with this, and sure I guess I am too (as long as our defense can stop getting hurt), but if I were a Jacksonville fan I'd be yelling at my TV/radio/internet for much of the afternoon/evening. If James' TD stands that Pats are 10-4 just like the Jags and the Jags' pt differential is +165 on the season (compared to +121 for NE and only +66 for PIT). Hell they went into Pittsburg and throttled them 30-9 earlier this year, picking off Big Ben five times. Yet hardly anyone bothers to acknowledge they exist. If Jay Cutler can look like a star against us, Blake Bortles could shock us too. Get healthy, defense!
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#28 » by threrf23 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:46 am

Can Duron Harmon get some love up in here? He was the guy who tackled Smith-Schuster on the 10 and then the was the guy with the game clinching INT...
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#29 » by GoCeltics123 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:14 am

Duron Harmon is so lucky, I don't get how every single time the Pats need a big interception it always seems to be him; the ball always is thrown (or bounces) right to him, every single damn time (besides Butler in the Super Bowl)! Guess it's better to be lucky than good though! He is a good safety though, our Rutgers guys are solid.

Great win.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#30 » by Bostondave » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:14 am

That was a catch. Even by reading of the rule. I always thought that the nanosecond the ball breaks the end-zone plane it's a done deal. Ok, so the NFL rule says something about there having to be a "football move". Ok, but the guy broke the plane with control of the ball breaking the plane, and THEN the ground caused the ball to move. According to what I just read that was a TD.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#31 » by GoCeltics123 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:15 am

Bostondave wrote:That was a catch. Even by reading of the rule. I always thought that the nanosecond the ball breaks the end-zone plane it's a done deal. Ok, so the NFL rule says something about there having to be a "football move". Ok, but the guy broke the plane with control of the ball breaking the plane, and THEN the ground caused the ball to move. According to what I just read that was a TD.

Win's a win :D
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#32 » by Wes-J » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:05 am

Great game marred by sketchy officiating unfortunately. Brady is the goat.

Awful call and non-call at the end. James caught the ball, made his move, crossed the plane, should of been game over.

Eli Rodgers was tackled by the defender on the deflection. Game over.

I don't know what is and isn't a catch anymore. Interpretation is whatever they want apparently.

Gronk is a punk. I respect Brady, don't hate on the dude.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#33 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:34 am

Wes-J wrote:Great game marred by sketchy officiating unfortunately. Brady is the goat.

Awful call and non-call at the end. James caught the ball, made his move, crossed the plane, should of been game over.

Eli Rodgers was tackled by the defender on the deflection. Game over.

I don't know what is and isn't a catch anymore. Interpretation is whatever they want apparently.

Gronk is a punk. I respect Brady, don't hate on the dude.


Correct calls in both cases. No one likes the survive the ground thing, but it's been called consistently for years now. Jones is going to the ground as he catches it, and didn't maintain control through the ground. Dumb rule? Sure, but as with the equally-dumb tuck rule, the call on that dumb rule was clear as day.

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As to PI on the interception, that would have been one hell of a soft call. Definitely not tackled.

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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#34 » by mr_sunshine » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:42 am

Wes-J wrote:Great game marred by sketchy officiating unfortunately. Brady is the goat.

Awful call and non-call at the end. James caught the ball, made his move, crossed the plane, should of been game over.

Eli Rodgers was tackled by the defender on the deflection. Game over.

I don't know what is and isn't a catch anymore. Interpretation is whatever they want apparently.

Gronk is a punk. I respect Brady, don't hate on the dude.


Gronk is a punk says the guy who is a fan of the team that does a 5 man celebration on every score. One day the Steelers might beat the Patriots again.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#35 » by Wes-J » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:09 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Wes-J wrote:Great game marred by sketchy officiating unfortunately. Brady is the goat.

Awful call and non-call at the end. James caught the ball, made his move, crossed the plane, should of been game over.

Eli Rodgers was tackled by the defender on the deflection. Game over.

I don't know what is and isn't a catch anymore. Interpretation is whatever they want apparently.

Gronk is a punk. I respect Brady, don't hate on the dude.


Correct calls in both cases. No one likes the survive the ground thing, but it's been called consistently for years now. Jones is going to the ground as he catches it, and didn't maintain control through the ground. Dumb rule? Sure, but as with the equally-dumb tuck rule, the call on that dumb rule was clear as day.

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As to PI on the interception, that would have been one hell of a soft call. Definitely not tackled.

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Cave I don't no what else to say buddy. I've heard as long as you maintain control of the ball, you're allowed some movement of the ball once hitting the ground. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE CLEAR CONTROL. The NFL maintains James clearly lost control of the ball once he hit the ground. I disagree on a couple accounts. I believe he possessed the ball before crossing the plane, so therefore should of been moot. If they want him to carry out the process then I still believe he doesn't lose control when he hits the ground despite the ball moving. We see many instances of receivers hitting the ground with ball moving while maintaining possession. There's just too much inconsistency on the interpretation of this rule.

Rodgers was tackled. Thanks for the replay to verify haha. Whatever it's all good. Patriots walking in the light again. AB injured changed everything perhaps.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#36 » by FlatearthZorro » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:54 am

2 GOATs on this team. Gron is def. the GOAT TE if he can stay healthy he will shatter every TE record in the next 2 years. And Tom is Tom.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#37 » by Tai » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:12 am

Wes-J wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Wes-J wrote:Great game marred by sketchy officiating unfortunately. Brady is the goat.

Awful call and non-call at the end. James caught the ball, made his move, crossed the plane, should of been game over.

Eli Rodgers was tackled by the defender on the deflection. Game over.

I don't know what is and isn't a catch anymore. Interpretation is whatever they want apparently.

Gronk is a punk. I respect Brady, don't hate on the dude.


Correct calls in both cases. No one likes the survive the ground thing, but it's been called consistently for years now. Jones is going to the ground as he catches it, and didn't maintain control through the ground. Dumb rule? Sure, but as with the equally-dumb tuck rule, the call on that dumb rule was clear as day.

Read on Twitter


As to PI on the interception, that would have been one hell of a soft call. Definitely not tackled.

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Cave I don't no what else to say buddy. I've heard as long as you maintain control of the ball, you're allowed some movement of the ball once hitting the ground. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE CLEAR CONTROL. The NFL maintains James clearly lost control of the ball once he hit the ground. I disagree on a couple accounts. I believe he possessed the ball before crossing the plane, so therefore should of been moot. If they want him to carry out the process then I still believe he doesn't lose control when he hits the ground despite the ball moving. We see many instances of receivers hitting the ground with ball moving while maintaining possession. There's just too much inconsistency on the interpretation of this rule.

Rodgers was tackled. Thanks for the replay to verify haha. Whatever it's all good. Patriots walking in the light again. AB injured changed everything perhaps.


We can agree to disagree on the catch till kingdom come, obviously a call for the ages.

Rodgers getting tackled? Um yea sorry, Rodgers falling down doesn't mean he was tackled. :lol: Rowe actually deflected the ball on top of that.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#38 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:27 am

Wes-J wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Wes-J wrote:Great game marred by sketchy officiating unfortunately. Brady is the goat.

Awful call and non-call at the end. James caught the ball, made his move, crossed the plane, should of been game over.

Eli Rodgers was tackled by the defender on the deflection. Game over.

I don't know what is and isn't a catch anymore. Interpretation is whatever they want apparently.

Gronk is a punk. I respect Brady, don't hate on the dude.


Correct calls in both cases. No one likes the survive the ground thing, but it's been called consistently for years now. Jones is going to the ground as he catches it, and didn't maintain control through the ground. Dumb rule? Sure, but as with the equally-dumb tuck rule, the call on that dumb rule was clear as day.

Read on Twitter


As to PI on the interception, that would have been one hell of a soft call. Definitely not tackled.

Read on Twitter


Cave I don't no what else to say buddy. I've heard as long as you maintain control of the ball, you're allowed some movement of the ball once hitting the ground. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE CLEAR CONTROL. The NFL maintains James clearly lost control of the ball once he hit the ground. I disagree on a couple accounts. I believe he possessed the ball before crossing the plane, so therefore should of been moot. If they want him to carry out the process then I still believe he doesn't lose control when he hits the ground despite the ball moving. We see many instances of receivers hitting the ground with ball moving while maintaining possession. There's just too much inconsistency on the interpretation of this rule.

Rodgers was tackled. Thanks for the replay to verify haha. Whatever it's all good. Patriots walking in the light again. AB injured changed everything perhaps.


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I know it's a crappy and painful way to lose, so forgive for belaboring the point here, but what you are saying is not the rule. Crossing the plane, "establishing possession" before hitting the ground or "making a football move" not applicable on that call. They aren't looking at any of that. Because he was going to the ground on the catch, he has to maintain full control all the way through hitting the ground. That definitely didn't happen. Ball came loose when he hit the ground with the ball touching the ground, and that's the end of that. As dumb as that rule it, the call was clear and easy to make.

On the interception, meh... a little handful of jersey, with some incidental contact on the feet, but that's not flag-worthy. He is also allowed to maul the dude post-deflection. You are gonna have 20 PI calls a game if you start flagging things to that level. Several would have gone against your DBs while covering Cooks and Ground today, too. Bottom line is that Rowe made the play.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#39 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:31 am

FlatearthZorro wrote:2 GOATs on this team. Gron is def. the GOAT TE if he can stay healthy he will shatter every TE record in the next 2 years. And Tom is Tom.


Belichick and Brady are irrefutable.

Gronk still has work to do.
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Re: OT: Patriots 

Post#40 » by Wes-J » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:45 am

He caught the ball, both feet down, turned upfield and extended the ball, breaks the plane. That’s a football move, so at what point does it become a fumble? Is it just because he was diving as he caught it? Also, there is no angle that showed the ball touch the ground, just that it moved. James hand is underneath it as far as we can see.

I get what you're saying. IMO, they're wrong.

I can live with the Rodgers non-call, it's close, it's a bang bang play, but those usually don't get called in that spot.

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