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Any new Samuel fans?
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:02 am
by captain_cheapseats
So, early this year when he was holding out there was a lot of talk about how Samuel was only a marginal defensive back, wasn't important to the defense, etc. Anyone change their mind yet?
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:22 am
by Dirty Water
No, his second INT was a gimme. The first, any above average DB would have made that play. It was a very poor decision throwing it in that spot. Don't mention the fact AJ Feely was ripping Asante and the rest of the Pats secondary to shreds the whole game.
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:45 pm
by l2RDO
Actually by my count AJ Feeley only threw to Assante's reciever 4x in the whole game. The first was picked off and run for a TD. The second Samuel played behind the reciever because Rodney looked like he was taking underneath coverage, and instead just kept on running by the reciever. The third was a near pick on a play very similar to the first, and the last was the INT in the endzone.
I could be wrong, but it looked like they stayed away from Samuel all game, and picked on Hobbs, Gay, and Harrison most of the time. I think that Samuel has proven that not only is he a playmaker who has great instincts, but hes a shutdown corner as well. In a game where the Eagles shred our D, only about 1 pass is completed against Samuel.
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:03 pm
by Basketball Jesus
The only reason Feeley didn
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:13 pm
by Chach
I don't think anyone said he was marginal. I think everyone said he was an above average corner who gambled a lot to get those interceptions but is not a shut down type corner who is worth the money he's asking for. I'm psyched that he's putting up another really good, borderline great season because that just improves the chance that we can trade him and get something good back, like another first. mahalo
~Chach~
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:31 pm
by l2RDO
Some people may call it gambling, but I see it as having great instincts. The guy knows how to play his position, and even while gambling he still gets burned less than our 2nd best corner. Asante had the huge INT to start out the game, almost had another game clinching INT, and then DID get the game clinching INT later. If the Pats get rid of Asante, they better draft McFadden, because our secondary isnt going to stop anyone.
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:32 am
by Chach
And, as BBJ pointed out, once he loses a step, he's going to be mediocre. If he had the full skill set of a shut down corner like Champ Bailey, then I'd be up for giving him money. But to give a long term contract to someone who's strength of playing their position is based primarily on their physical tools rather than their mental or technique (things that age more gracefully) worries me and I'd rather take a first round pick over running that risk. mahalo
~Chach~
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:53 am
by captain_cheapseats
Ghost of the Garden wrote:No, his second INT was a gimme. The first, any above average DB would have made that play. It was a very poor decision throwing it in that spot.
Were the 4 he already had this season (plus the 15 Pdefs) also all lucky, and easily explained away? How about all the picks/Pdefs from last year?
Basketball Jesus wrote:Samuel
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:53 am
by l2RDO
Why is everyone worried about him losing a step? Hes 26, not 30. If hes worth the money NOW, give it to him, its not like his contract is guaranteed. If he ends up not earning it, cut him for salary cap reasons. With the condition our secondary is in, I dont think the Pats can afford to trade him for draft picks.
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:06 am
by Dirty Water
captain_cheapseats wrote:Were the 4 he already had this season (plus the 15 Pdefs) also all lucky, and easily explained away? How about all the picks/Pdefs from last year?
Idk, I'd have to analyze those futher. But from what I saw yesterday was Asante having a pretty good game, but nothing to warrant him a gigantic contract that restricts us financially. We can look at him with super kool aid goggles now, or more crititcal goggles later in the season to determien if he indeed is worth the money and will be better than Hobbs/Gay down the long run
Posted: Mon Dec 3, 2007 3:20 am
by Chach
l2RDO wrote:Why is everyone worried about him losing a step? Hes 26, not 30. If hes worth the money NOW, give it to him, its not like his contract is guaranteed. If he ends up not earning it, cut him for salary cap reasons. With the condition our secondary is in, I dont think the Pats can afford to trade him for draft picks.
It's not that simple. First off, Samuels is going to demand a high signing bonus for that exact reason. Signing bonuses are the only guaranteed money, both to go into the player's pocket and to count against the cap. So say Samuels slacks or is injured and loses a step, we can't cut him because the salary cap hit would be too high.
Also, this isn't baseball where every position can be filled by a superstar making 8 figures. The salary cap really restricts what you can do in terms of payroll. Brady can restructure the deal all he wants, he's still getting paid the same amount, if not more for helping management by restructuring. The players union would not look kindly on one of its marque players simply giving up money out of the kindness of his heart; restructuring is playing accounting games to manage the cap. You can only massage the numbers so much before it comes to bite you. And with a lot of young guys coming up for new deals or having recently signed them (Brady, Semour, Warren, Wilfork, possibly Moss, Thomas' deal this past fall) and a potential top 5 pick this April, the Pats don't have the wiggle room to give Samuels a deal he thinks he deserves. If Samuels is willing to settle for what the Pats believe he's worth, they will sign him in a heart beat. But he's looking for Clements money and the Pats don't view him as being worth that nor do they have the room under the salary cap to pay him that. It's not as simple as "we need him so sign him to whatever makes him happy". mahalo
~Chach~
Posted: Mon Dec 3, 2007 4:53 pm
by Dirty Water
Just throwing a huge contract at this guy is what the old New York Yankees would have done. This is the New England Patriots. There will be a lot more skepticism.