Indiana Pacers - 2008 Summer Evaluation

Amen316 · Post #1 » by **Amen316** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:57 pm

Indiana Pacers Summer Evaluation - This team has the talent to win close to 45 games this season. However, due to the fact so much of that talent is stockpiled in the Point Guard and Shooting Guard positions. We have the Pacers actually only winning 36 games this season. Again this is not a talent issue it is a time issue. (Jamaal Tinsley, TJ Ford, Travis Diener, Jarret Jack) at Shooting guards Indiana has (Daniels, Dunleavy, and time splitters Jack, Granger). While Granger has been listed as a SF/SG throughout his career, he is a naturally a SG in a SF body. Granger should have his biggest year as a Pacer. This team is actually better than last years team but the other teams in the East have gotten much better also.

- Roy Hibbert was a fantastic pickup but will be leaned on immediately to be very productive in Jermaine Oneals absence.

- We believe another package deal would take this team much much higher, if they went for 1 bonafide player at the PF position. The position benefit highly with an uptempo point guard like TJ Ford.
(players about to take next step: Carl Landry, Leon Powe, L. Kleiza, L.Scola, J.Maxiell, some of these are probably untouchable but its possible one the teams these players are on could accept a trade for a point guard + another) - Again this is just to maximize the Pacers Court Impact as their starting 5 take the court.

http://scoutingthenba.com/blog/category/indiana-pacers/

Post #2 » by **count55** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:58 pm

What is the source of this evaluation? Can you please provide a link?

Amen316 · Post #3 » by **Amen316** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:01 pm

Done sorry bout that: fixed that end of the sentence that had SG. Simply defined as suppose to be only PF to be a bonafide player at.

Post #4 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:38 pm

Seems like a pretty weak assessment.

You're pretty spot on probably in terms of victories, but everything else doesn't make sense. I highly doubt Tinsley is going to be playing at all, while you also completely omit Brandon Rush from the lineup. He figures to play rotational minutes backing up the SG/SF spots. Also, the advocacy of moving Dunleavy for a "bonafide player" at the SG position is kind of laughable. If you want to move Dunleavy for a better contract, then that's an argument that could make some sense. If you want to move him because you don't think he's a bonafide player, I simply think you haven't seen him play since he came to Indy. This is even more laughable when you have Mike Dunleavy Jr. listed as the greatest impact player for the Pacers in 07/08 via your statistics on your website. Either your statistics are completely off, or you don't trust or believe them. Either way, you seem to be discounting your own website's value from the beginning.

"Jamaal Tinsley actually has come into his own and many scouts may want to argue he is currently playing as well as TJ Ford. TJ has played at a higher level throughout his career but not sure he has a great advantage over Jamaal at this stage. "

Laughable. Tinsley is not currently playing, nor will he likely. His issue has never been talent, but consistency. Ford is a major upgrade at the PG spot, and Tinsley is already essentially off the roster.

The look of the website needs some work, and also there are some weird issues. Looks like you're claiming the Pacers drafted Derrick Byars in '07. Incorrect.

StephenJackson · Post #5 » by **StephenJackson** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:43 pm

Yup, that evaluation was very laughable. I actually did chuckle out loud for a brief moment. A lot of awkward grammatical errors on the page, and it looks like a 12 year old with about a day's worth of HTML experience made the website.

The way you talk about Jamaal smashes any slight ounce of credibility you may have ever developed. Who are these 'many scouts' who think JT is at the same level as Ford?

Sorry to be so harshly critical, but one can only expect that when they post garbage like that and spread it around for all to see.

HicksvsKnicks08 · Post #6 » by **HicksvsKnicks08** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:00 pm

Nice find ,

a little light on credibility though

Amen316 · Post #7 » by **Amen316** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:45 pm

Again TJ Ford was a major upgrade at one time in his career, but I really dont believe your going to see Tinsley dismissed for TJ, Jack, and Diener. Jamaal I feel isnt going to just hand over the minutes he plays to these players.
Jamaal 2006/7 - 13.9 CI-Value
Jamaal 2007/8 - 15.1

TJ Ford 2006/7 - 16.4
TJ Ford 2007/8 - 13.3 and lost his starting position to Jose Calderon

Jarret Jack 2006/7 - 11.7
Jarret Jack 2007/8 - 10.6

Again if everyone thought the same there would be no objective opinions. I never said that Jamaal has more talent than TJ. I did say however, that either from injuries or whatever. TJ Ford is currently not playing as well as Jamaal Tinsley did last season. I just believe Pacer fans will grow to respect the fact that Jamaal has gotten better and still hardly recognized for such work.

Amen316 · Post #8 » by **Amen316** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:03 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Seems like a pretty weak assessment.

You're pretty spot on probably in terms of victories, but everything else doesn't make sense. I highly doubt Tinsley is going to be playing at all, while you also completely omit Brandon Rush from the lineup. He figures to play rotational minutes backing up the SG/SF spots. Also, the advocacy of moving Dunleavy for a "bonafide player" at the SG position is kind of laughable. If you want to move Dunleavy for a better contract, then that's an argument that could make some sense. If you want to move him because you don't think he's a bonafide player, I simply think you haven't seen him play since he came to Indy. This is even more laughable when you have Mike Dunleavy Jr. listed as the greatest impact player for the Pacers in 07/08 via your statistics on your website. Either your statistics are completely off, or you don't trust or believe them. Either way, you seem to be discounting your own website's value from the beginning.

I was trying to just name PF that are on the rise that could be traded for. I never said Dunleavy isnt a starter. As a matter of fact if you look at the chart it shows Mike and Danny are the only players so far playing a high caliber of basketball on this Pacer team. I dont think however that Brandon Rush will play very much his first two years unless a trade is made. He rates out alot like Rodney Carney did from Memphis a few years ago. Very High natural ability but skillset is not at NBA level yet. Carney has gotten minutes but not been productive like many thought. Hey Ive read all over the internet, and I am out on the limb saying that Rush will not start for at least 3 years of his first contract. He might however be in the top 6 rotation by 2010/2011 if and only if he develops his offensive skillset.

"Jamaal Tinsley actually has come into his own and many scouts may want to argue he is currently playing as well as TJ Ford. TJ has played at a higher level throughout his career but not sure he has a great advantage over Jamaal at this stage. "

Laughable. Tinsley is not currently playing, nor will he likely. His issue has never been talent, but consistency. Ford is a major upgrade at the PG spot, and Tinsley is already essentially off the roster.

I know that Tinsley only played 39 games but he began to show what he could do leading a team at the point guard position.

The look of the website needs some work, and also there are some weird issues. Looks like you're claiming the Pacers drafted Derrick Byars in '07. Incorrect.

They traded that 2nd rd pick to Portland in 2007 ...Like they traded Bayless

Good or bad I do appreciate the comments and sometimes the criticism. However, as far as opinions and evaluations go I place them out there so I cannot retract what I say later. My evaluations are placed for everyone to see good or bad, right or wrong. At the end of the day, its still all for fun. =)

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #9 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 am

I'm not sure those writers have ever seen a Pacers game. Jamaal Tinsley will not play another game in a Pacers uniform. Its as simple as that.

Eindar · Post #10 » by **Eindar** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:29 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:I'm not sure those writers have ever seen a Pacers game. Jamaal Tinsley will not play another game in a Pacers uniform. Its as simple as that.

Agreed, and it has nothing to do with his PER, CI, or any other rating, unless there's a rating showing how much you are loathed by your local fanbase.

Post #11 » by **Gremz** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:19 am

Eindar wrote:
DGrangeRx33 wrote:I'm not sure those writers have ever seen a Pacers game. Jamaal Tinsley will not play another game in a Pacers uniform. Its as simple as that.

Agreed, and it has nothing to do with his PER, CI, or any other rating, unless there's a rating showing how much you are loathed by your local fanbase.

They had a contest to gauge popularity for this recently. It was Jamaal Tinsley Vs A six-month old raw fish sandwich.
It was a tied vote.

Post #12 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:29 pm

Amen316 wrote:I was trying to just name PF that are on the rise that could be traded for. I never said Dunleavy isnt a starter. As a matter of fact if you look at the chart it shows Mike and Danny are the only players so far playing a high caliber of basketball on this Pacer team. I dont think however that Brandon Rush will play very much his first two years unless a trade is made. He rates out alot like Rodney Carney did from Memphis a few years ago. Very High natural ability but skillset is not at NBA level yet. Carney has gotten minutes but not been productive like many thought. Hey Ive read all over the internet, and I am out on the limb saying that Rush will not start for at least 3 years of his first contract. He might however be in the top 6 rotation by 2010/2011 if and only if he develops his offensive skillset.

I think you're missing the point. On your website, you listed Dunleavy as having one of the highest impacts on the court, yet you then, in your summary, advocate trading for a "bonafide player" at SG because the Pacers apparently don't have one. If that's the case, why aren't you advocating trading every player since Dunleavy appears to make the highest impact?

The other problem I see is that you seem to have no handle whatsoever on the Pacers. The coach, general manager, and vice president of basketball operations have all said that Tinsley WILL NOT be on the roster when the season starts. No matter what, even if he is, Ford will be the starter, and Tinsley will likely not even play. It doesn't matter if Tinsley doesn't want to hand over the reins, they've already been taken from him. He may be talented, but it's never been a lack of talent that's hurt this team. He simply cannot be trusted anymore. Simple as that. He's gone. It's been announced all summer long. It's been out there quite a bit. Seems like you're just not even trying to do some research.

Amen316 · Post #13 » by **Amen316** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:49 pm

Okay
Lets find common ground my point was if Jamaal Tinsley is allowed to compete for the job as point guard for the Indiana Pacers. He has improved enough, and TJ has degressed enough that it wont be as clear cut as one would think. If you are simply disposing Jamaal because no one likes him, then the years of futility he provided are not indictive of whom he is now as a player.
Even if you have TJ Ford and no Tinsley what Im trying to say is he is now playing at a level that is the same as Jamaal not clearly above. This is why Toronto easily handed the reigns to Jose Calderon as their new point guard.
You will notice a tremendous difference in court speed with TJ, and if Indiana gets their bigs to outlet quick to TJ this team could find itself in more transition points situations on a per game basis. Once you get past the transition aspects theres not that much that separates the two players.

Post #14 » by **Gremz** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:06 am

Amen316 wrote:Okay
Lets find common ground my point was if Jamaal Tinsley is allowed to compete for the job as point guard for the Indiana Pacers. He has improved enough, and TJ has degressed enough that it wont be as clear cut as one would think. If you are simply disposing Jamaal because no one likes him, then the years of futility he provided are not indictive of whom he is now as a player.

You're right we don't like him, no one around the organisation likes him, no one else around the league probably likes him, it's because he's a jerk, simple as that. I'd rather have Russell Crowe running the point than JT, he's such a jerk.

Jamaal hasn't improved anything since he's been here, the only things he has done include gaining weight, increasing his felony list, proving that it is possible to take 30 bad shots a night, and that you can get paid ridiculous amounts of money to sit at home, and yes, gain more weight. He's such a jerk!!!.

Post #15 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:48 pm

Tinsley, for the most part, has regressed a bit since he was a rookie here.

It's not even whether or not I/we like him. It's, simply put, because he WILL NOT be given a shot at starting for this team, if he's even on the roster when training camp opens. Tinsley would always win us about 3-5 games a year, and lose us 5-9 games a year, at least. I'm just hoping that TJ Ford doesn't LOSE us any games. He doesn't have to win them for us, I just don't want him to LOSE them.

However, I think you're discounting Ford a bit due to Calderon being a solid PG. I'd have taken Calderon 11 times out of 10 over Ford, and still would. He simply seems to be a a better PG than Ford. Nothing wrong with that. Calderon is also a superior PG to Tinsley, so it doesn't matter.

HicksvsKnicks08 · Post #16 » by **HicksvsKnicks08** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:34 pm

However, I think you're discounting Ford a bit due to Calderon being a solid PG. I'd have taken Calderon 11 times out of 10 over Ford, and still would. He simply seems to be a a better PG than Ford. Nothing wrong with that. Calderon is also a superior PG to Tinsley, so it doesn't matter

Scoot,

Got to disagree with you my friend. I would not consider Calderon better than Ford. I read a lot of debates on the Ford vs Calderon topic on various websites for Toronto, and there was more than a few that perfered Ford. Ford has led his teams to the playoffs every year, is quicker than Calderon, can run the break better, and yes actually plays better on ball defense. The only thing that Calderon does better is shot from outside. I know it's opinons, and I cant necessarly back it up with facts, but I honestly prefer Ford.

My prediction is Ford has a better year than Calderon, plus Calderon only supplanted Ford in the starting line-up after Ford got hurt.

Just my 2 cents though

Post #17 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:27 pm

But Calderon completely supplanted Ford in the lineup and played better. Ford only got the job back when Calderon handed the job back over because he feared that Ford would sulk and hurt the team.

Post #18 » by **Gremz** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:09 am

Atleast it's a certainty that Calderon is a better PG for the Raptors outfit.

MillerTime101 · Post #19 » by **MillerTime101** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:31 am

Larry Bird and everyone with the Pacers has clearly stated PG is the biggest area that needs to be upgraded, its not that everyone doesnt like Tinsley its the fact that we dont feel he can get it done anyone for this team. If you have watched the pacers the last few years you would not question that statement. As for him battling Ford for minutes its simply not going to happen, Tinsley has played his last game as a pacer, end of story.

Im not saying Ford is better then Calderon because as a Toronto native I simply know better, however technically Ford did not loose his starting job to Calderon as you stated, once Ford was 100 percent he actually started the last games of the season and the playoff games so once again I think your only problem is getting your facts straight. I think you have alot of good points on your site but the spelling errors and false facts ruins the credibility and takes away from your good points.