POR/IND Trade Just Curious

[GOBlazers]

A counter offer... As others here have already said, although Rudy, and Bayless are good young players, the Pacers already have a strong guard rotation. On our forum, we just started discussing something similar. http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=839684

Tinsley (waived)
Murphy (backups aldridge)
Granger (starting SF)

for

Outlaw (starter)
Frye (starter)
LaFrentz (huge expiring)
1st

Ford/Jack/Diener
Dunleavy/Rush/Daniels
Outlaw/Williams/Graham
Frye/McRoberts/Baston
Foster/Nestorovic/Hibbert

Indiana gets rid of two untradeable players, gets capspace, as well as young starters, and a draft pick to look for a potential star. The capspace could also be used to get a star. I liked this deal, although I would hate to lose Frye. If you haven't seen much of his game, check youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voGZv5ZEVs0

[floppymoose]

None of the players or picks coming back are difference makers (although Outlaw is at least a decent player), so it's basically the Pacers trading Granger for the right to lose Troy and Tins. Which I personally would consider, but I'm sure it's hard for bigtime Pacer fans to warm up to that idea.

[blaha112]

I would rather buyout Tins than do this deal. Granger is our man. I don't trade Granger to you without receiving Roy, Aldridge, Oden... You won't include them, so I won't include Granger.

You must trade value to receive value. I see you thinking that instead of trading value, you take on negative value. This is not enough for me. It's hard enough for Indy to attarct FA, this is our best talent for next 5 years. Not giving him up!

[Fitz303]

I would rather buyout Tins than do this deal. Granger is our man. I don't trade Granger to you without receiving Roy, Aldridge, Oden... You won't include them, so I won't include Granger.

You must trade value to receive value. I see you thinking that instead of trading value, you take on negative value. This is not enough for me. It's hard enough for Indy to attarct FA, this is our best talent for next 5 years. Not giving him up!

Not to rip on Granger at all because I love his game, but I wouldnt trade much more than Travis Outlaw personally. IMO, Travis is near Granger's level at a lesser price and a year younger. Look at their Per36 stats(Granger played 36mpg this season to Outlaws 27mpg):

Granger - 19.6 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.1 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.1 bpg, 2.1 TOpg, on 44.6 FG%, 40.4 3pt%, 85.2 FT%
Outlaw - 18.0 ppg, 6.2rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.0 bpg. 1.8 TOpg, on 43.3 FG%, 39.6 3pt%, 74.1 FT%

Now, Im not saying Outlaw is as good/better than Granger, but Outlaw hasnt been given the 36MPG that Granger has on this team because of the role that we have needed him for. He still played 27mpg and had a very good season, but if you gave him the extra 9mpg and made him a focal point on the team on the Pacers, instead of being behind guys like Roy and Aldridge, I have no doubt that he would get those same numbers per. The one thing that Granger definitely has on Outlaw is his efficiency. Granger's TS% is 57% to Outlaws 50%. So as i said, I am definitely not saying that Outlaw is better, but I wouldnt give up a bunch of our up and comers, nor would I give up Roy, Oden, or Aldridge to get a guy who would put up similar numbers to Outlaw on our team.

I know many on here will probably go nuts at my opinion, but I dont mean it as a slight at Granger, I just REALLY think that highly of Outlaw. I think he will be taking over as SF of the Blazers this year instead of Webster (but the Blazers board is pretty torn between those 2).

On another note, what the word on Jack out there? I was one of the few guys in Portland that still supports him. I think he will do great things now that hes away from the Blazers. He was in a tough situation here in Portland and never got the consistency of the talent that he showed his rookie and sophomore years. I saw that hes going to be battling for the starting spot with Ford. Does he really have a good shot at beating Ford out?

[blaha112]

I would rather buyout Tins than do this deal. Granger is our man. I don't trade Granger to you without receiving Roy, Aldridge, Oden... You won't include them, so I won't include Granger.

You must trade value to receive value. I see you thinking that instead of trading value, you take on negative value. This is not enough for me. It's hard enough for Indy to attarct FA, this is our best talent for next 5 years. Not giving him up!

Not to rip on Granger at all because I love his game, but I wouldnt trade much more than Travis Outlaw personally. IMO, Travis is near Granger's level at a lesser price and a year younger. Look at their Per36 stats(Granger played 36mpg this season to Outlaws 27mpg):

Granger - 19.6 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.1 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.1 bpg, 2.1 TOpg, on 44.6 FG%, 40.4 3pt%, 85.2 FT%
Outlaw - 18.0 ppg, 6.2rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.0 bpg. 1.8 TOpg, on 43.3 FG%, 39.6 3pt%, 74.1 FT%

Now, Im not saying Outlaw is as good/better than Granger, but Outlaw hasnt been given the 36MPG that Granger has on this team because of the role that we have needed him for. He still played 27mpg and had a very good season, but if you gave him the extra 9mpg and made him a focal point on the team on the Pacers, instead of being behind guys like Roy and Aldridge, I have no doubt that he would get those same numbers per. The one thing that Granger definitely has on Outlaw is his efficiency. Granger's TS% is 57% to Outlaws 50%. So as i said, I am definitely not saying that Outlaw is better, but I wouldnt give up a bunch of our up and comers, nor would I give up Roy, Oden, or Aldridge to get a guy who would put up similar numbers to Outlaw on our team.

I know many on here will probably go nuts at my opinion, but I dont mean it as a slight at Granger, I just REALLY think that highly of Outlaw. I think he will be taking over as SF of the Blazers this year instead of Webster (but the Blazers board is pretty torn between those 2).

On another note, what the word on Jack out there? I was one of the few guys in Portland that still supports him. I think he will do great things now that hes away from the Blazers. He was in a tough situation here in Portland and never got the consistency of the talent that he showed his rookie and sophomore years. I saw that hes going to be battling for the starting spot with Ford. Does he really have a good shot at beating Ford out?

I respectful, disagree with your position.

First off, you talked about how Outlaw isn't your main focus on offense. It really helps when a player has other good players around him. I doubt Outlaw was getting doubled as often as Granger... I doubt that their best defensive player was guarding him during the game either...

I think Outlaw is a decent ROLE player. However, I do not see him being the force that is Grangerous! Granger would explode in Portland.

Also, there are many players that if you project their stats over 36per, they get inflated. I can't remember who, but there was a bunch player that for us that had an insane 36per last year or the year before. Like, MVP type numbers. Lastly, there is a reason Outlaw only plays 27 minutes per game.

On the jack note, I like him a lot. However I think the idea of him starting is crazy. TJ is the man, unless hurt. Hopefully Jack gets some minutes though.

[a_sensei]

Still I would have a hard time seeing the Pacers trading away the face of the franchise for a couple pg/sg that would barely crack the rotation, I would honestly rather buy out Tinsley then have the include Granger.

First of all I don't think any of these trades are good/realistic. To say that Rudy and Bayless would barely crack the rotation in Indiana is not right. Ford and Fernandez would start (moving Dunleavey to the SF) and Bayless would be the combo guard getting most the minutes off the bench. I imagine they would be two of the Pacers three leading scorers.