ESPN David Thorpe chat- Pacers mentioned.

[huskyfan224]

Correction: Rasho wasnt there last year scoot. Dunleavy did feast off scraps last season. Pacers were full of garbage last year. Shawne Williams, Flip Murray, Travis Diener who was playing big minutes, Kareem Rush, and JO was injured for 42 games last year, he wouldve made a difference if healthy, same with Tinsley. IDC what ppl think, but talent wise Tinsley is very good. He just makes poor decisions off the court. Dunleavys 19ppg was good on a terrible team, if he did much less than that i'd consider it mediocre. Dunleavy is a role player. Every Pacer this year is a role player except Granger. Granger needs another stud next to him down low, thats why upgrading from Dunleavy would be good bc his value is high and the Pacers could get better players.

What about Dunleavy's first year here. His spectacular 14ppg, 2 ppg better than what he was doing at GS. He should receive an award for that. What "pundits" are you talking about? Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Scoot McGroot]

Correction: Rasho wasnt there last year scoot. Dunleavy did feast off scraps last season. Pacers were full of garbage last year. Shawne Williams, Flip Murray, Travis Diener who was playing big minutes, Kareem Rush, and JO was injured for 42 games last year, he wouldve made a difference if healthy, same with Tinsley. IDC what ppl think, but talent wise Tinsley is very good. He just makes poor decisions off the court. Dunleavys 19ppg was good on a terrible team, if he did much less than that i'd consider it mediocre. Dunleavy is a role player. Every Pacer this year is a role player except Granger. Granger needs another stud next to him down low, thats why upgrading from Dunleavy would be good bc his value is high and the Pacers could get better players.

What about Dunleavy's first year here. His spectacular 14ppg, 2 ppg better than what he was doing at GS. He should receive an award for that. What "pundits" are you talking about? Wake up and smell the coffee.

Yeah, we all know that Rasho just came over in the JO deal. However, what you didn't read was that we're still essentially starting Foster, or a center that is roughly the same talent level as Foster. Am I wrong?

I like how you also picked a guy who rode the bench behind our new star player last year, and what were two minimal backups/end of the bench type role players as listing the talent we had last year.

Our talent last year was Granger, Dunleavy, Foster, and Murphy, with JO for 42 games or so. Our talent this year is Ford, Granger, Foster, Rasho, and Murphy, with no JO. Seems about roughly equal. Hibbert and Rush are still role players looking to earn minutes.


Listen, the reason I'm taking you to task on this is simply because I know how much you hate Duke players, and how that might be blinding you a bit. I'm not saying that Dunleavy is a superstar, but to all of a sudden say that we should trade Dunleavy because Daniels is playing so well (when Daniels likely won't be around next year as his contract expires and he and Tinsley are the last vestiges of the 'knucklehead crowd' here in Indy) is a bit rash. He may not be a superstar, but he's averaged 17 ppg in Indy in his career, and the most he ever averaged in a single season in GS on some pretty darned awful rosters was 13.4 ppg. I don't see how you can say that last year's Indy roster was any worse, if at all, than any of the Warriors teams he played on. He didn't feast well off scraps in GS. Why should we now attribute Indy to him feasting off scraps?

I'm all about upgrading our poor big man rotation by using Dunleavy while his value is high (although it's probably not high at all right now with his knee issues, and it's likely he's a negative value around the league with his knee like it is; he'll have to prove it's healthy first to prove he has positive value again), but for the right reasons. I don't like to see posters here hide behind vague and untrue motivations.

[chatard5]

Wow, at first some of this stuff I was reading I thought was a joke. I like the part where he says something about how Dunleavy only had one good season, even though Marquis, who I do like, has pretty much had 1/5 of a good season. I don't know, there is just so much stupidity in what was written, and he seems so close-minded that whatever you say won't matter, even if it's a fact. I wasn't a big fan of Dunleavy when he came over from GS, but he was arguably our best offensive player last year. On a side note, I didn't like Murphy at all, but he is starting to win me over lately with some big time double-doubles. Anyways, I am glad to see Marquis is doing well, but Dunleavy will be the starter when healthy and I doubt a decent rookie will take any more than 5 minutes from him a game (Rush will have to find minutes elsewhere).

[PR07]

Ideally, I think Dunleavy on a contending team would be a 6th man that would simply light up the scoreboard with his very fundamentally sound offensive game. However, to write off last season isn't fair. Dunleavy is a good player, while he might not be an 18 ppg on a good team, he's still a solid player, and I'm sure a lot of teams would love to have him if you're looking at just the player and not the contract.

Daniels has really stepped up this season, no question. He's a solid defender, and he's pretty good at getting to the rim. However, his contract is up after this season, and Brandon Rush is going to need more and more playing time. In my opinion, he's a goner. As admirably as he's performed, he's not really a fit either. I have yet to see him hit a three pointer this season.

[huskyfan224]

Chatard, dont chime in bud, keep quiet. I am not close minded at all. I just dont think Dunleavy is "that" good. Sue me.

Please explain to me how Daniels is apart of the knucklehead crowd? It is ignorant ppl like you who bring down players when u know nothing about him or the situation. Do you know him personally, NO so dont judge everything off the media. Thats what most of you people do. U probly just look at the Star and read what Bob Kravitz says. At least 75% of you do.

Marquis Daniels is only beat by Dunleavy in 2 categories. Size and shooting ability. Marquis hasnt shot the ball well from 3, i agree. But he does defend much better, creates his own shot better, he is WAY more athletic ( Let me explain that to you quim-wedges, a person who is quick/fast, has hops, tough, ect.) and can get to the basket much easier. If MD focused this offseason on his 3 ball, he would definitely be better than Dunleavy, without question. He would improve a lot if he does that. Why not give him a chance, u are all witnessing what he is doing with his first chance, let him grow as a player before u right him off.

Scott, buddy, my god. Rasho is an upgrade from Foster. Foster contributes nothing but hustles plays, which i am not knocking, but Rasho actually has an offensive game. Foster does not. Id take Rasho any day over Foster. So why would u argue with me on trading Dunleavy? His value might not be that high now since his knee, i agree. We need a player to complement Granger, Dunleavy wont be it.

Scoot, r u going to the game Sunday, let me know bc i will if you are, WE NEED TO CHAT. I wanna see u explain urself about how i hide behind my "vague and untrue motivations" Come on sweetheart.

[Scoot McGroot]

Chatard, dont chime in bud, keep quiet. I am not close minded at all. I just dont think Dunleavy is "that" good. Sue me.

Please explain to me how Daniels is apart of the knucklehead crowd? It is ignorant ppl like you who bring down players when u know nothing about him or the situation. Do you know him personally, NO so dont judge everything off the media. Thats what most of you people do. U probly just look at the Star and read what Bob Kravitz says. At least 75% of you do.

Marquis Daniels is only beat by Dunleavy in 2 categories. Size and shooting ability. Marquis hasnt shot the ball well from 3, i agree. But he does defend much better, creates his own shot better, he is WAY more athletic ( Let me explain that to you quim-wedges, a person who is quick/fast, has hops, tough, ect.) and can get to the basket much easier. If MD focused this offseason on his 3 ball, he would definitely be better than Dunleavy, without question. He would improve a lot if he does that. Why not give him a chance, u are all witnessing what he is doing with his first chance, let him grow as a player before u right him off.

Scott, buddy, my god. Rasho is an upgrade from Foster. Foster contributes nothing but hustles plays, which i am not knocking, but Rasho actually has an offensive game. Foster does not. Id take Rasho any day over Foster. So why would u argue with me on trading Dunleavy? His value might not be that high now since his knee, i agree. We need a player to complement Granger, Dunleavy wont be it.

Scoot, r u going to the game Sunday, let me know bc i will if you are, WE NEED TO CHAT. I wanna see u explain urself about how i hide behind my "vague and untrue motivations" Come on sweetheart.

Daniels is part of the "knucklehead crowd" due to his legal issues he's had since coming to Indy; namely his role in the 8 Seconds Saloon brawl a couple years ago. The fans still remember it, and they hold it against him. He's not worth his salary for next year, and the team option won't be picked up (or rather; I stress it SHOULD not be picked up).

Very few, if any people here read Bob Kravitz for anything other than humor. His notes that he writes generally don't show any understanding of the CBA, or the way the NBA works. Let's keep his name out of this, as it really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


What the heck is a 'quim-wedge'? Interesting.


"If MD focused this year on a 3 pt shot..." - How come he hasn't? Dude has been in the league how long now and he's never shown the ability to consistently knock down the 3. Why would you expecth him to all of a sudden be able to now?

How is this MD's first chance? He played well with Dallas, but never this well, and he's not really played tremendously well here in Indy. His best ability is that he gets to the basket with an amazing smooth speed that he has. He can occasionally knock down the mid-range J. He plays defense. Dunleavy can hit a shot from anywhere on the court and can usually at least get to the free throw line, but most importantly, he plays amazingly well off the ball and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

I'd actually personally take a platoon of Foster and Rasho, but wouldn't take either over the other. They each have different playing styles, and both are effective in their own way. However, I don't understand why you would say Rasho is unquestionably better, let alone better at all. They're pretty much about even.


Last, I love how you then bring up the idea that I have to go to the games to be a fan who understands basketball. Nope, I won't be there. However, I'm talking to you right here, more than I would talk to you at a game. Why don't you think we're chatting right here? We are. I'm saying that you're motivation in this thread is that you don't like Dunleavy, because he played at Duke. That you want to see him gone from Indy, because he played at Duke. That you love UCONN and hate Duke players. I've seen your diatribes in the past and I know how you hate the (your words, not mine) "slow, white, soft, Duke players". It's not hard to see this rant coming from a mile away.


No matter what, until Dunleavy comes back healthy and effective in the lineup for a consistent time period for the Pacers, we can't trade him for anything. So, you're essentially stuck with Dunleavy for most likely this whole season, whence Daniels will expire, and they'll probably let him walk as Dunleavy and Rush will take over the rotation at SG/SF next to Granger.

[chatard5]

Hey kid, this is a message board, I can chime in my opinion.

[Kuq_e_Zi91]

Marquis Daniels is only beat by Dunleavy in 2 categories. Size and shooting ability. Marquis hasnt shot the ball well from 3, i agree. But he does defend much better, creates his own shot better, he is WAY more athletic ( Let me explain that to you quim-wedges, a person who is quick/fast, has hops, tough, ect.) and can get to the basket much easier. If MD focused this offseason on his 3 ball, he would definitely be better than Dunleavy, without question. He would improve a lot if he does that. Why not give him a chance, u are all witnessing what he is doing with his first chance, let him grow as a player before u right him off.

Actually Marquis spent all offseason working on his three pointer. It was O'Brien's "homework assignment" for him. He spent hours and hours each and every day working with a shooting coach just putting up shots. That's why he has the confidence to spot and shoot them. It's just not going in for him so far.

Here's a quote from O'Brien this summer:

Marquis will work a lot on his stand-still open 3-point shots. He really had a good finish to the year from the standpoint of recognizing that when he has his feet set, he can be a good 3-point shooter. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a great 3-point shooter, but we want him to be a consistent 34 percent, 35 percent 3-point shooter. So I’m sure he’ll work a great deal on shooting. The rest of the game is instinctive to Marquis, but he needs to get up thousands of shots during the summer.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/obrien_c ... 80531.html

[cdash]

While we are on the subject of trading guys with high value, what about trying to get something for Murphy while he is posting consistent double-doubles again?

[CircleCitysportsfan]

I think Hibbert is going to be a decent center. 12 and 7 with a few blocks. He has some nice post moves...he'll be ok took Smits a while to get used to the NBA. I'm hoping Rush can be a solid long term second scoring option for Danny, this team has the makings of one that can contend in a few years. I'm excited!

[huskyfan224]

I never once said that u have to go to games to be a fan, did I? No i didnt. And ur quote of me is 100% accurate. I really dont care, u guys on here r the only ones who think otherwise, which amazes me. Im caucasian, im not racist, i just think they dont have what it takes to be the go to guy or a solid contributer next to Granger. Will u guys still want Dunleavy when he comes back and puts up numbers not close to last year?

I never said Rasho was "unquestionably" better than Foster. I think he is better as a whole package. Foster just makes hustle plays and putbacks, do you agree? You should if you watch the Pacers. He has no offensive game and is to weak to in post defense to alter that many shots. I think Foster is pretty good, just not as good as Rasho. But let me say something, we are talking about Rasho and Foster, which both are pretty sad to me compared to whats out there for the taking. And Marquis didnt play that much in Dallas, he did good when he got his minutes

Chatard, wow, umm im not a kid. Great Comeback.

And for Marquis offseason shooting, i didnt know that. So when Marquis starts making 3's r u guys still gona hate on him and get off of Dunleavys nuts? Its bound to happen if he put in the time and effort. He is just not feeling it right now, it will come.

[cdash]

There is no way you are any older than 14.

[JarrettJackSG]

when can we waive him, just like we waived that poor mcleod fanboy. =(

[chatard5]

I think it's funny how he googled how to spell "caucasian" instead of using "white".

[Gremz]

I never once said that u have to go to games to be a fan, did I? No i didnt. And ur quote of me is 100% accurate. I really dont care, u guys on here r the only ones who think otherwise, which amazes me. Im caucasian, im not racist, i just think they dont have what it takes to be the go to guy or a solid contributer next to Granger. Will u guys still want Dunleavy when he comes back and puts up numbers not close to last year?

I never said Rasho was "unquestionably" better than Foster. I think he is better as a whole package. Foster just makes hustle plays and putbacks, do you agree? You should if you watch the Pacers. He has no offensive game and is to weak to in post defense to alter that many shots. I think Foster is pretty good, just not as good as Rasho. But let me say something, we are talking about Rasho and Foster, which both are pretty sad to me compared to whats out there for the taking. And Marquis didnt play that much in Dallas, he did good when he got his minutes

Chatard, wow, umm im not a kid. Great Comeback.

And for Marquis offseason shooting, i didnt know that. So when Marquis starts making 3's r u guys still gona hate on him and get off of Dunleavys nuts? Its bound to happen if he put in the time and effort. He is just not feeling it right now, it will come.

Just one note no that, Marquis will never be a viable 3-point threat option, it's just simply not in his game. He's only a career .238% shooter from beyond the arc, so this season't struggles in that regard are hardly a one off occurance.

[Gremz]

when can we waive him, just like we waived that poor mcleod fanboy. =(

Ah, McLeod fanboy, that was a fun month.