GDT: Pacers VS. Bulls: 3/31/09

[TJFordisGod]

Just because I think TJ should start over Jack means that my passion for Ford is stronger than ones passion for all things combined? That is accusing my "passion" towards Ford being the sole reason I believe Ford should be starting

[Miller4ever]

Where does he say that it's the only reason you think Ford should start?

[TJFordisGod]

None of my other valid reasons have been taken into consideration. Everything is just immidiately dismissed. Then comes the accusation that my "passion" for Ford exceeds that of ones passion for all things combined.

[cdash]

I think M4E is right...you are just victimizing yourself. I don't see how chatard made any sort of "personal accusation" either. So he said your passion could be a good thing or a bad thing. Big deal. The same could be said about every single one of us. And what are these "valid reasons" that you speak of? You are dismissing us winning four out of five games, and look at your logic. "They were all close games and some of the teams sucked, they could have gone either way". Ummm...welcome to the sport of basketball. This season especially almost every game we have played we have lost or won in the last few minutes of the game. A win is a win, period.

[TJFordisGod]

Valid Reasons :

Jack should not have been rewarded with Fords starting pg position after starting an immature fight with him.

Our starting lineup would be much more effective with Fords ability to create for everyone especialy now with the emergence of Rush and Murphy back.

Which leads to good starts and consistant leads throughout the game that will eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to get a last second win vs us. E.g. chicago and Miami

[MillerTime101]

I dont think the argument they got into is the reason TJ lost his starting spot, Jack has simply out played him the last month, its not even debatable.

I also dont see why its a big deal, TJ has played well the last couple games and has publicly said he doesnt mind coming of the bench. I think you are making a bigger issue of this then is needed.

[Miller4ever]

Valid Reasons :

Jack should not have been rewarded with Fords starting pg position after starting an immature fight with him.

Our starting lineup would be much more effective with Fords ability to create for everyone especialy now with the emergence of Rush and Murphy back.

Which leads to good starts and consistant leads throughout the game that will eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to get a last second win vs us. E.g. chicago and Miami

Let me get this straight. Your valid reasons that TJ Ford should be starting are as follows:

1. Jack should not be starting because of a tiff that everyone has forgotten about.

2. Our starting lineup would be better with TJ.

3. Reason #3 is that with TJ Ford in the lineup, we get good starts, consistent leads, and teams won't have late runs that result in our losses.

Do you have any hard evidence to support any of these claims? Until you do, they will remain claims, not reasons. The entire season we've been having close games with TJ Ford as our starting PG with the majority of minutes, and we haven't had these consistent leads that you claim TJ is supposed to give us. Without hard evidence, you can replace TJ's name with anyone's. Watch this:

Valid Reasons :

Jack should not have been rewarded with Diener's starting pg position after starting an immature fight with him.

Our starting lineup would be much more effective with Diener's ability to create for everyone especially now with the emergence of Rush and Murphy back.

Which leads to good starts and consistent leads throughout the game that will eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to get a last second win vs us. E.g. Chicago and Miami

Do you see the logical fallacy of saying that TJ should be starting because he should be starting + Jack is not cool?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Valid Reasons :

Jack should not have been rewarded with Fords starting pg position after starting an immature fight with him.

Our starting lineup would be much more effective with Fords ability to create for everyone especialy now with the emergence of Rush and Murphy back.

Which leads to good starts and consistant leads throughout the game that will eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to get a last second win vs us. E.g. chicago and Miami

Look up valid in the dictionary.

[TJFordisGod]

Valid Reasons :

Jack should not have been rewarded with Fords starting pg position after starting an immature fight with him.

Our starting lineup would be much more effective with Fords ability to create for everyone especialy now with the emergence of Rush and Murphy back.

Which leads to good starts and consistant leads throughout the game that will eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to get a last second win vs us. E.g. chicago and Miami

Let me get this straight. Your valid reasons that TJ Ford should be starting are as follows:

1. Jack should not be starting because of a tiff that everyone has forgotten about.

2. Our starting lineup would be better with TJ.

3. Reason #3 is that with TJ Ford in the lineup, we get good starts, consistent leads, and teams won't have late runs that result in our losses.

Do you have any hard evidence to support any of these claims? Until you do, they will remain claims, not reasons. The entire season we've been having close games with TJ Ford as our starting PG with the majority of minutes, and we haven't had these consistent leads that you claim TJ is supposed to give us. Without hard evidence, you can replace TJ's name with anyone's. Watch this:

Valid Reasons :

Jack should not have been rewarded with Diener's starting pg position after starting an immature fight with him.

Our starting lineup would be much more effective with Diener's ability to create for everyone especially now with the emergence of Rush and Murphy back.

Which leads to good starts and consistent leads throughout the game that will eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to get a last second win vs us. E.g. Chicago and Miami

Do you see the logical fallacy of saying that TJ should be starting because he should be starting + Jack is not cool?

Fine, you can sum it all up into a logical assumption if you like.

First of all the "tiff" between Ford and Jack should not have been forgotten about since it is more than likely the reason Obie has changed the lineup. Second, TJ is obviously a better playmaker and player than Jack which would be beneficial to Murphy, Granger, and Rush with TJ starting. He is also an underrated defender, so it is fair to say our starting lineup would be better with him. With that being said, one would assume that would lead to good starts, consistant leads throughout the game, and will more than likely eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to have a last second chance to steal the game.

[Miller4ever]

Fine, you can sum it all up into a logical assumption if you like.

I'm sorry, what's a logical assumption?

TJ is obviously a better playmaker and player than Jack

Again, no proof/logic to support this, even if it is true.

He is also an underrated defender, so it is fair to say our starting lineup would be better with him.

Underrated defender = starter?

With that being said, one would assume that would lead to good starts, consistent leads throughout the game, and will more than likely eliminate the opportunity for the opposing team to have a last second chance to steal the game.

Is this the logical assumption you were talking about earlier?

[TJFordisGod]

U can replace "logical" with "reasonable" if that makes it easier for you. And one definition of assumption would be the act of assuming.


TJ being a better playmaker than Jack should be evident through watching the Pacers play, and I think a majority would agree that Ford is the better playmaker. I brought up the underrated defender part beause people are always blasting Ford for his defense when in reality I think it is decent.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Since starting at PG, rounding up, Jack has averaged 17,6,5,2 with 2 TO's per game. Thats on 52% shooting while providing good defense. The team is also 4-1 in this stretch.

TJ sucked in the starting lineup, thats just how it is. He has been great off the bench, had he been coming off the bench playing like that all year long, he'd probably win the 6th man award. Your arguing against results. TJ performs better off the bench, Jack performs better at PG, and our team performs better with Jack at PG and TJ off the bench.

I swear, we could go 82-0 and you'd be whining if TJ was coming off the bench. You care more about TJ than you do the team, your hardly seem to be a Pacer fan, your more of a TJ fan.

[count55]

An incredibly exciting win. A great comeback. A great team effort.

Big contributions from both our starters and our bench.

An electric crowd. Clutch shots by Danny and TJ. Signs of life from Josh McRoberts. Winning a must-win to keep the door slightly ajar for a playoff spot.

Talk on the radio and in the paper about the buzz being created around this team.

What do we get here?

Four pages of arguing with a fanboy who was apparently happier during the five-game losing streak than over the 4-1 stretch that follows simply because TJ Ford was starting then and isn't now.

What a **** debacle.

You want to know why this board is dead? This is it.

A post game thread in an exciting victory, and exactly how many new posters do you think this absurd discussion attracted? How many current or former posters stopped by to share the victory, and left without posting, thinking, "Jeez, what are they thinking?" How many good posters from other teams forums have looked at silliness like this and considered this board a complete waste of time?

Is this really what you guys want?

[TJFordisGod]

How did TJ suck in the starting lineup? Did he somehow inconsistently average 15 points and 5 assists? History has shown that TJ performs better as a starter than off the bench. The schedule if very favourable right now in case you haven't noticed. I would be willing to bet that if TJ started WITH RUSH, we wouldn't have to put up with these late game situations.

[Miller4ever]

I think I'm going to take my cue from count. This is going nowhere. Should've done this a page ago.