Denver Nuggets

[chatard5]

How'd he only show up only every 5 games and still get those stats? Now I am even more impressed with him.

[eathy]

put it this way...

That Camby trade to the Clippers will go down as top 10 best Nuggets trades of all time in franchise history.

[cdash]

put it this way...

That Camby trade to the Clippers will go down as top 10 best Nuggets trades of all time in franchise history.

I don't know what's more telling: That Camby was that bad, or that the Nuggets have not made 10 good trades in franchise history.

The Nugget fans are right though--Camby is an overrated defender. He's akin to TJ Ford, sure, he may get a lot of steals, but he gambles a ton to get them, and more often than not, he leaves his teammates out to dry going for the steal. Camby does a lot of the same, except with blocks.

[chatard5]

I don't think he should be up there for DPOY, but he wasn't "useless". That is stupid. I don't know why the Clips traded for him, unless they had a deal involving Kaman that ended up not going down. I guess to replace Brand, which doesn't make sense. Now to say he isn't worth the money, especially being near the luxury tax, I completely understand. Calling him useless is crazy talk. Trading a double-double guy for a 2nd round pick being one of your best trades in team history isn't good.

[chatard5]

Oops. I meant the option to swap 2nd round picks, not for just a 2nd round pick.

Also, at the time the Nuggets didn't have Billups and the Clips were supposed to be decent. I couldn't find pre-season predictions, but in the pre-season power rankings the Nuggets were 18 and Clips 19.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

I don't think he should be up there for DPOY, but he wasn't "useless". That is stupid.

Last year, the Nuggets defense and offense was better when Camby was off the court. I call that useless. He got all of his stats in a way that only hurt the team. Sure he got blocks, but he gave up more layups and O-boards going for those blocks. He never boxed out. He upped his rebound total by stealing boards from team mates, he even knocked team mates down going for them (seriously). If a center played him physical, he wilted like a flower. On offense he would complain about his shots. He couldn't hit a layup to save his life and he is 7 feet! He would try to run the fast break by dribbling, he would try and drive, usually pick up a charge. He really had no post presence on offense or defense.

That's useless. Maybe if he was a bench player and accepted the role, put his ego and stat stuffing aside, he wouldn't have been.

[chatard5]

If he was useless he wouldn't get any rebounds. I would be useless. You CAN'T be useless and have those stats. You can be selfish and a detriment to the team and have negative value, but not useless. I didn't think he was that bad, I guess I didn't see him that much. I saw him enough to know he isn't useless, though.

[chatard5]

If Camby is useless, what does that make Tinsley? Ouch.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

If he was useless he wouldn't get any rebounds. I would be useless. You CAN'T be useless and have those stats. You can be selfish and a detriment to the team and have negative value, but not useless. I didn't think he was that bad, I guess I didn't see him that much. I saw him enough to know he isn't useless, though.

Would saying for a guy making 10 million a year, he was useless at helping his team succeed, be better? Seems we're just fighting over the word useless right now.

And at least Tinsley isn't hurting his team on the court. Same can't be said for Camby last year.

[chatard5]

Well by definition, Tinsley is useless and Camby is not. Clearly I thought Camby is better than he really is. I watched him some. I actually liked what I saw a lot of the time. Other times not so much. It sounds like at the end of his career he was playing like the "not so much" all the time. I get what you are saying and I think we agree, just are talking about different types of being "useless".

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Yeah. Useless was most likely the wrong word to use, I'll agree. He could have been better earlier in his career, but last year he was really bad, especially the last half of the season.

[chatard5]

The Clippers should be the LAST team to get players that care more about money than they do about the game. Bad moves getting Baron Davis and Camby (although I think in the right environment they both can be very good). I guess they thought it would be Davis and Brand, which would be different. I don't know, I remember when GSW beat Dallas every1 was worshipping Davis. I kept saying he isn't that good and is overrated. I am sticking with that.

[Gremz]

Baron plays well in Baron's system. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have the patience or will to adjust to anything different. I actually thought it was a good move by the Clippers to get Baron, well at the time obviously. He just got really disinterested really quickly there.

As for ZBo, who knows what they were thinking.

[cdash]

Poor Eric Gordon, stuck in that mess that is the Clippers organization.

Nutty: Don't you think a large part of that difference between last year and this year has more to do with the fact that you exchanged Iverson for Billups and Carmelo finally started playing up to his potential? You can't just look at Camby and go, "Yep, him being gone is the reason Denver made the leap from fringe playoff team to contender".

[Gremz]

Billups is the guy behind the whole thing. Anderson brought a large amount of unkown quality, but I do honestly believe Billups actually makes Carmelo a much better player than we have previously seen.

With Iverson you simply have a guy who regardless of how many points he gets, is wildly inefficient. Perhaps it was a "Monkey see, Monkey do" situation. The complete opposite has happened with Denver's possessions this season, and it's down to one guy.

[DougInOz]

Billups is the guy behind the whole thing. Anderson brought a large amount of unkown quality, but I do honestly believe Billups actually makes Carmelo a much better player than we have previously seen.

With Iverson you simply have a guy who regardless of how many points he gets, is wildly inefficient. Perhaps it was a "Monkey see, Monkey do" situation. The complete opposite has happened with Denver's possessions this season, and it's down to one guy.

^
What he said.

That piece on 'beyond the lines' or whatever it's called was a really good read.

[chatard5]

Billups is the guy behind the whole thing. Anderson brought a large amount of unkown quality, but I do honestly believe Billups actually makes Carmelo a much better player than we have previously seen.

With Iverson you simply have a guy who regardless of how many points he gets, is wildly inefficient. Perhaps it was a "Monkey see, Monkey do" situation. The complete opposite has happened with Denver's possessions this season, and it's down to one guy.

x3

[Kuq_e_Zi91]

Billups was certainly key in bringing the team together and bringing a new mentality to a team in need of a leader.

Nene only played 16 games last season. This season he had a career year. Along with Andersen, he helped replace what Camby provided.

JR Smith also had a career year. He improved on his defense and even looked to pass more.

What about Dahntay Jones and the defense he provided? Pretty big considering the Nuggets weren't exactly known for their defense last season.

Do these things happen without Billups coming on board and giving these role players a leader worthy of following? I doubt it. AI was setting the wrong example for JR. What used to be late night clubbing and partying last season, turned into late night sessions in the gym and film study this season. Billups brought that sense of professionalism and maturity that a young, easily influenced JR Smith really needed to get his career on track.