Granger trade check

Mattya · Post #21 » by **Mattya** » Fri Oct 9, 2009 2:47 pm

Wolves Fan Perspective

I think these two players are pretty equal in trade value. Maybe the nod goes to Granger becuase of Big Al's injury. The problem with these trades is they really don't make sense for either team. The point in gaining Big Al from Indiana's point of view is to contend, and the point of getting Granger from Minnesota's point of view is to contend, the only way either of these teams do that is by pairing Big Al and Granger.

now trades for Granger and Big Al, are near impossible because they are valued so highly by their perspective teams.

as a Minnesota Fan, I would probably trade Kevin Love, Jonny Flynn, How many Expirings are need and the Bobcats top 12 protected pick this year, the Jazz's top 20 protected pic this year for Granger and a undesireable contract. But im sure that wouldn't be enough, because thats how much you guys love Granger, which is the same way Wolves fans love Big Al.

Boneman2 · Post #22 » by **Boneman2** » Fri Oct 9, 2009 8:03 pm

^^^^ Not that I would consider trading away Danny, but Minny's first rounder would need to be unprotected. Regardless, it won't happen. I coveted Flynn before the draft when he was projected in the 10-14 range. Flynn will amaze this season, his strength is equal to most small-forwards. I'd give you anything, but not Danny.

Post #23 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:17 am

james harden wrote:what makes Granger so much better than Jefferson? not arguing, just wondering...

4 words: Defense And Scoring Efficiency.

Granger is particularly efficient because he draws fouls well and shoots the three very well. He also plays good defense at 2 different positions. Al Jefferson is a mediocre defender at the 4 and a terrible defender at the 5, doesn't draw fouls well and isn't a super-high FG% player, so he's only about average in his scoring efficiency. He's also a relatively weak passer.

There's no use in getting Jefferson, especially if Murphy is functioning as a (nearly) comparable rebounder.

Post #24 » by **Miller4ever** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:21 am

^^Thank you for the defense of his defense. So many people underrate his defense. They think he's like Carmelo Anthony, but in reality he was drafted as a defender.

Post #25 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:35 am

Actually, Melo's not a bad defender. Hasn't been in two years or so. He's not ABOVE average, but he's made strides.

Granger, though, is definitely a GOOD defender, and has been as long as I've been watching him. Which is pretty much since he was drafted. Too many 3s, but damn, he's got a nice shot and he hustles well. Pretty long, too, and pesky as hell.

Post #26 » by **Miller4ever** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:51 pm

I know Melo's not terrible. He's an underrated defensive rebounder and is using his athleticism a lot better. It's one of the reasons the Nuggets got so far last year.

Post #27 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:02 pm

Miller4ever wrote:I know Melo's not terrible. He's an underrated defensive rebounder and is using his athleticism a lot better. It's one of the reasons the Nuggets got so far last year.

Sorry, I went into auto "defend Melo" mode. I don't like the way everyone assumes you're not extremely good if you aren't some epic point forward like Lebron. He's a special talent precisely because he's got so rare a combination. If you took Bird and replaced his shot with overwhelmingly potent physical attributes, that's basically Lebron. Melo's more like the new-era version of B-King, or 'Nique.

Anyway. Granger's awesome.

J-Ville Smoke · Post #28 » by **J-Ville Smoke** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:53 pm

Granger + Dunleavy for Nelson + Carter + Redick/Pietrus?

chatard5 · Post #29 » by **chatard5** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:56 pm

+ Howard

Edit: Obviously Orlando wouldn't do that, but there is nothing Orlando can offer to get Granger.... Except Howard.

Post #30 » by **Miller4ever** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:29 pm

While we are hankering for a PG, this would just deprive us of Granger. The front office is confident in Granger and Granger is confident in himself. That trade also isn't that good for Orlando. I think that's a lose-lose trade.

J-Ville Smoke · Post #31 » by **J-Ville Smoke** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:41 am

Miller4ever wrote:While we are hankering for a PG, this would just deprive us of Granger. The front office is confident in Granger and Granger is confident in himself. That trade also isn't that good for Orlando. I think that's a lose-lose trade.

I think Granger will become a top 5-6 player, so pairing him up now with Dwight and letting them develop together would be a dream to me.

If you took Redick, I think a lineup with Howard/Lewis/Granger/Dunleavy with Bass/Gortat/Barnes/Anderson/Pietrus on the bench would be unreal.

You guys get your PG of the future and a wing who can create with a big expiring and a great shooter in Redick.

Obvioulsy it will never happen but I am just a huge Granger fan. Interesting that you think the only person worth trading for would be Howard, is that because you all think he is already on the tier of Lebron/Howard/Wade/Kobe/Paul? Or is management just in love with him and sees him as becoming that?

Post #32 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:27 pm

J-Ville Smoke wrote:
You guys get your PG of the future and a wing who can create with a big expiring and a great shooter in Redick.

Obvioulsy it will never happen but I am just a huge Granger fan. Interesting that you think the only person worth trading for would be Howard, is that because you all think he is already on the tier of Lebron/Howard/Wade/Kobe/Paul? Or is management just in love with him and sees him as becoming that?

No. You're not going to get Granger for lesser pieces. It would take a huge piece, like Dwight Howard, for Indy to trade Granger and other pieces for. We can't part out our best player and hope that 3 players somehow contribute as much as one does.

Granger is far above Carter, Nelson....anyone on the Magic not named Dwight. It's not that Granger is worth a LeBron/Howard/Wade/Paul/etc, it's just that it makes no sense to move Granger for lesser pieces.

Would you trade Howard for Hibbert, Rush, Dunleavy, etc? Any package that doesn't have Granger in it that Indy can offer? I don't think so. Even though it would improve your "depth", and you'd get your SG and C of the future (which you wouldn't even need a C of the future if you don't trade Howard), it still doesn't come close to improving your team. Same as the original offer for Indy.

Post #33 » by **Miller4ever** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:30 pm

I think the trade is bad because then you'd have 0 distribution. Dunleavy would be your best passer.

The trade is the "r" word for us.

I don't understand your question when you say

Interesting that you think the only person worth trading for would be Howard, is that because you all think he is already on the tier of Lebron/Howard/Wade/Kobe/Paul?

Yes, I do think Howard is on the tier of Lebron/Howard/Wade/Kobe/Paul. Maybe it's because his name is there, I don't know.

Dwight Howard is younger than Granger, and is a center. Building around a superstar big man is a luxury. Scorers are a dime a dozen, but superheros are rare.

J-Ville Smoke · Post #34 » by **J-Ville Smoke** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:40 pm

I meant Granger on the same tier as Howard.

And for the poster above, there isn't a player in the NBA that I would trade Howard for, my question was is Granger in the same situation in your mind? Would you only trade him for a top tier player (Lebron/Wade/Howard/Paul)?

Or can the right amount of young talent, good contracts, and proven role players pry him away?

Post #35 » by **Miller4ever** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:02 pm

I think Granger is worth as much as Melo right now. I think he's a little bit under Durant. Pacers have enough young talent, and in terms of contracts, we're set in 2011. We also have the role playing personified in Jeff Foster. If I was Pacers GM, I'd only do trades that bring upgrades to a starting position. I'm willing to trade any of our 4 PG's, Dunleavy, Murphy, Foster, and Dahntay before we trade any of Granger, Rush, Hibbert, and Hansbrough. With the way preseason's been going and how we ended last season on a good note, I think that we like that core, and we want to let them develop together. You have two range scorers that can defend from the wing, a hustle/energy player, and a big post presence. That is, if everything goes to plan.

Post #36 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:45 am

Miller4ever wrote:I think Granger is worth as much as Melo right now. I think he's a little bit under Durant.

Ooh, stop, stop!

You think Durant is above Melo? Even though Melo is a better iso scorer, defender and passer?

Granger, I could see where you could make the Danny = Melo argument, because he's a better defender than Melo even though he's not as good an iso scorer, rebounder or passer (and in all that, he's still a fine scorer with a nasty jumper and decent iso skills).

But Durant, really? He's a great shooter who can iso a little, post a little, rebounds well for a SF and that's about it. I really don't see how you could evaluate him as being above Melo (or Granger, for that matter).

Post #37 » by **Miller4ever** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:33 pm

Agghh, hang on, hang on!

I'm not talking talent/production-wise, I'm talking value-wise.

Everyone right now is SUPER high on Durant (I personally am a wait-and-see guy) but most GM's in this league would take Durant over Granger or Melo. It would be a tough call, but the youth and the improvement he shows every season is what puts him over the top.

Post #38 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:11 pm

Miller4ever wrote:Agghh, hang on, hang on!

I'm not talking talent/production-wise, I'm talking value-wise.

Everyone right now is SUPER high on Durant (I personally am a wait-and-see guy) but most GM's in this league would take Durant over Granger or Melo. It would be a tough call, but the youth and the improvement he shows every season is what puts him over the top.

Heh, fair enough. I was kind of going o.O!!!!

Post #39 » by **Miller4ever** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:31 pm

I completely understand. Also, Durant can block shots a la George Gervin.

Post #40 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:16 am

Miller4ever wrote:I completely understand. Also, Durant can block shots a la George Gervin.

I'd say more ala Chris Bosh, because he averaged 0.7 PER36 last year, but it's a decent point. He's 20, so he's awful at guarding the pick-and-roll and he relies on his length way too much (check out the latest bit on TrueHoop about him), but then, he's 20. Or 21, or whatever, he's a kid in the NBA, he can't be expected to be awesome on D yet.

Good player already, loads of potential. But a bit overrated at the moment.