Granger/Jefferson revisited before the draft?

NewWolvesOrder · Post #1 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:57 pm

Granger, Ford and 2010 pick (#4-7, pacers don't move up in the lottery)
for
Jefferson, Flynn, Jazz pick, Bobcats pick.

Would you people agree to this deal? I think it's too much value for Pacers to pass up, you can argue that Granger>Jefferson, but Flynn plus 2 mid 1st rd picks>>>>top10 pick and Ford with his negative trade value.

Post #2 » by **Miller4ever** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:34 pm

It all depends where the picks actually end up, and who's available on the board.

basketballwacko2 · Post #3 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:02 pm

Turnover_21 wrote:Granger, Ford and 2010 pick (#4-7, pacers don't move up in the lottery)
for
Jefferson, Flynn, Jazz pick, Bobcats pick.

Would you people agree to this deal? I think it's too much value for Pacers to pass up, you can argue that Granger>Jefferson, but Flynn plus 2 mid 1st rd picks>>>>top10 pick and Ford with his negative trade value.

Easy no for the Pacers! Granger is not going anywhere! And our pick is not going to be traded. You want to move Jefferson, How about Murphy, Ford and Rush, you keep your picks, give the Pacers Jefferson and Cardinal.

Dunthreevy · Post #4 » by **Dunthreevy** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:43 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Turnover_21 wrote:Granger, Ford and 2010 pick (#4-7, pacers don't move up in the lottery)
for
Jefferson, Flynn, Jazz pick, Bobcats pick.

Would you people agree to this deal? I think it's too much value for Pacers to pass up, you can argue that Granger>Jefferson, but Flynn plus 2 mid 1st rd picks>>>>top10 pick and Ford with his negative trade value.

Easy no for the Pacers! Granger is not going anywhere! And our pick is not going to be traded. You want to move Jefferson, How about Murphy, Ford and Rush, you keep your picks, give the Pacers Jefferson and Cardinal.

Why would the T'Wolves even consider that trade? Give away your big man of the present and future, for an expiring contract, an overpriced PG whose best days are far behind him, and a project player that most likely will never be better than a solid wing player?

I don't see how the initial proposal is an easy no for the Pacers. Jefferson is a legit big, Flynn would solve our PG problems and is probably better than anyone we could get in this draft (with the exception being Wall), and we get two 1st round picks also. I love having Danny, but I'd do that trade without much hesitation. With the progression of Hibbert and Jefferson being an all-star caliber PF/C, that would automatically give us one of, if not THE best front court combos in the NBA, both offensively and defensively.

celtspacers · Post #5 » by **celtspacers** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:26 pm

take out flynn ad rubio you have a deal.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #6 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:35 pm

For those who don't want to trade Granger, would you trade Hibbert plus filler of you choice and your pick if you don't get top3 for Jefferson and Jazz and Cha' pick?

greenway84 · Post #7 » by **greenway84** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:34 pm

Why do people not understand the ime after time Bird has said Granger and Hibbert are untouchable. Anyone else is free reign but stop the trade talks involving Granger and Hibbert. Even if Bird would consider a trade of Granger for me personally it would have to be very one sided for us. we have no reason to trade him. Therfore if you come calling for him you better understand your going to overpay for him. Jefferson, Cardinal, 2 highest draft picks for Granger, Ford

Post #8 » by **Grang33r** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:01 pm

If Minnesota really wants Danny Granger, then start losing, and get a top 2-3 pick and select Wes Johnson. Kid is a stud. Reminds me a lot of Danny Granger.

FreeRon · Post #9 » by **FreeRon** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:25 pm

Easy no on the Jefferson/Granger swap, harder call but still no on the Jefferson/Hibbert. We've got a star in Granger that we have no troubles with. Not even any reports of potential trouble. We're not going to trade him unless there's a superstar coming back, and even then it's going to depend on the superstar. While on paper your trade is pretty close to equal value, it's nowhere near it in real life. In other words, if you rate value from -10 to +10, Granger and Jefferson probably even out, Flynn/2 lesser picks and Ford/better pick may even out, depending solely on the better pick. However, we've already shown with Tinsley that we're not willing to trade away key players to get rid of an undesirable contract. Add in the fact that we have Murphy, Hibbert, Hansborough, and Foster to play the 4/5 position. We like all of them. If we had Jefferson, think about what our starting lineup would look like. Nobody on that bench is going to make up for the production we lose by not starting either Murphy or Hibbert.

As for Hibbert/Jefferson...we have yet to see what Hibbert can do. There aren't many legit 5's out there, and it appears he will be one. While we get a known value in Jefferson that is greater than the current value of Hibbert, Hibbert could potentially be a better fit for us than Jefferson. And moving down in the draft to do it doesn't really appeal to me.

All of this, of course, was assuming our pick is significantly better than the Jazz or Charlotte picks. This also has to be the longest post I've posted in about 3 years on here...

Reginald Wayne · Post #10 » by **Reginald Wayne** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:06 am

I wouldn't do the Jefferson for Granger deal. Then we'd have a glutton of bigs and No good wings.

I would, however, do the Hibbert for Jefferson deal

We'd have:

Jefferson
Murph
Granger
Rush
Flynn

Not a bad starting 5 at all.
And we'd have Tyler, Watson, Price, Dunleavy, Jones off the bench.
We can then Trade Murphs contract and lack of D for a good defender. Start Tyler and we'll be good to go, no?

MNPacersfan · Post #11 » by **MNPacersfan** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Living in MN and watching Al Jefferson for the past few years...

No way. The guy willfully goes at double and triple teams, refuses to pass, and is still lacking a ton of defense. He's like Murphy with no range and poor shot selection.

Line that shows you what Al Jefferson:
01/13/2010 vs Houston
50 minutes
26 points (on 26 shots)
26 rebounds (which I love)
1 assist

At least 1/3 of the offense runs through this guy and he has 1 assist in 50 minutes?

Post #12 » by **Grang33r** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:49 am

MNPacersfan wrote:Living in MN and watching Al Jefferson for the past few years...

No way. The guy willfully goes at double and triple teams, refuses to pass, and is still lacking a ton of defense. He's like Murphy with no range and poor shot selection.

Line that shows you what Al Jefferson:
01/13/2010 vs Houston
50 minutes
26 points (on 26 shots)
26 rebounds (which I love)
1 assist

At least 1/3 of the offense runs through this guy and he has 1 assist in 50 minutes?

Good post. And welcome to RealGM!

Reginald Wayne · Post #13 » by **Reginald Wayne** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:31 am

MNPacersfan wrote:Living in MN and watching Al Jefferson for the past few years...

No way. The guy willfully goes at double and triple teams, refuses to pass, and is still lacking a ton of defense. He's like Murphy with no range and poor shot selection.

Line that shows you what Al Jefferson:
01/13/2010 vs Houston
50 minutes
26 points (on 26 shots)
26 rebounds (which I love)
1 assist

At least 1/3 of the offense runs through this guy and he has 1 assist in 50 minutes?

Yeah, I saw that game. Was quite exciting.

Anyway, he gets doubled and tripled because his team sucks, right? Maybe if he had a Granger or Murphy to kick it out to, then he'd have more assists and be more efficient.

MNPacersfan · Post #14 » by **MNPacersfan** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:16 pm

Anyway, he gets doubled and tripled because his team sucks, right? Maybe if he had a Granger or Murphy to kick it out to, then he'd have more assists and be more efficient.

Last year the plan was to surround him with shooters and didn't give them the ball. Then they started setting plays with cutters constantly penetrating the lane while Al had the ball and he still kept the ball. He just doesn't pass the ball.
He's a great scorer, but he needs to pass out in order to cut down on the double teams and be more efficient. I can't stand the 26 points on 26 shots in much the same way I can't stand the 1 assist in 50 minutes.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #15 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:59 pm

technically, last year Mike Miller refused to shoot, just like he's doing with the Wizards, and everybody else was just terrible in general, but Al Jefferson is not a skilled passer, this is true. I wouldn't trade Granger for this package personally if I'm Indy, I think the team is going in the right direction so far. But he's not untouchable, everybody is tradable when the right offer come along. He's untouchable for Al Jefferson, but if MN wins the lotto and adds John Wall to the deal, all of a sudden Bird is gonna start touching. And Bird looks like a toucher, lets be honest