Why did the Pacers never retire the number of Smits

Cleveland Cavs · Post #1 » by **Cleveland Cavs** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 12:35 pm

Do you feel like he deserved it?

Wizop · Post #2 » by **Wizop** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 3:47 pm

we've retired very few numbers. Rik was an important part of the Reggie Miller era but only Reg's number has been retired from that era with all the other retired numbers going back to the ABA championship teams of the 70's. Given that only one number has been retired in 40 something years, no I don't think Rik meets that standard. Off the top of my head here are names to consider ahead of Rik: Freddie Lewis, Don Buse, Billy Knight, Dale Davis, Mark Jackson, Derrick McKey, Danny Granger, Jermaine O'Neal.

Post #3 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 3:54 pm

Wizop wrote:we've retired very few numbers. Rik was an important part of the Reggie Miller era but only Reg's number has been retired from that era with all the other retired numbers going back to the ABA championship teams of the 70's. Given that only one number has been retired in 40 something years, no I don't think Rik meets that standard. Off the top of my head here are names to consider ahead of Rik: Freddie Lewis, Don Buse, Billy Knight, Dale Davis, Mark Jackson, Derrick McKey, Danny Granger, Jermaine O'Neal.

I'd put Rik ahead of all the other modern era guys. He's a lifelong pacer that produced. None of the other guys stayed long enough, or were proficient enough while Pacers to be retired. The way JO left and the relative short length of his career here push him down the list, if not out of the conversation.

Wizop · Post #4 » by **Wizop** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 4:12 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:The way JO left and the relative short length of his career here push him down the list, if not out of the conversation.

I can't argue with that as I'm not a big JO fan based on things other than his on court play which had us in the running for big things until the brawl. but I'd put DD ahead of Rik and we all know that Donnie Walsh, who would have a voice in the decision, loved McKey.

so far the retired numbers were all great players on great teams. between the 70's and the 90's we had some great players on bad teams and we haven't considered that to be good enough. Rik was a good player on a great team. I don't see that we're insulting him by not retiring his number.

Post #5 » by **boomershadow** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 6:06 pm

I would also put Smits ahead of every other name mentioned here, but I don't think that means his number HAS to be retired.

I really just hope we have very good reason to retire number 13 in the future.

Post #6 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 6:33 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:The way JO left and the relative short length of his career here push him down the list, if not out of the conversation.

I can't argue with that as I'm not a big JO fan based on things other than his on court play which had us in the running for big things until the brawl. but I'd put DD ahead of Rik and we all know that Donnie Walsh, who would have a voice in the decision, loved McKey.

so far the retired numbers were all great players on great teams. between the 70's and the 90's we had some great players on bad teams and we haven't considered that to be good enough. Rik was a good player on a great team. I don't see that we're insulting him by not retiring his number.

I think that Rik outshines McKey, and they played on the same teams. Davis is top 10 in all the defensive metrics for the Pacers, Rik is top 2 in all the offensive metrics.

But, Rik is also number 2 in career games played as a Pacer. That also adds up to something, too.

EuroPacer · Post #7 » by **EuroPacer** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 9:17 pm

I love Smits, being Dutch and all, and for me he does deserve a jersey in the rafters. It is easy to point at Reggie alone, but he wasn't alone, he had a team around him and for a long time Smits was a big part of that team. I think his jersey should be retired.

Wizop · Post #8 » by **Wizop** » Sun Jun 7, 2015 10:30 pm

if we had a ring of honor the way the Colts do, I'd put Rik on it, but I'd reserve retiring a number for Hall of Fame type players. FWIW, I don't think the Colts have retired a single jersey since coming to town but they honor the retirements from Baltimore which leaves them short in some number ranges. Of course, their roster size demands more numbers than you need for basketball.

Post #9 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 4:06 am

Wizop wrote:if we had a ring of honor the way the Colts do, I'd put Rik on it, but I'd reserve retiring a number for Hall of Fame type players. FWIW, I don't think the Colts have retired a single jersey since coming to town but they honor the retirements from Baltimore which leaves them short in some number ranges. Of course, their roster size demands more numbers than you need for basketball.

NFL teams just don't retire jerseys really. Tons of ring of honors, but it's not like baseball, where they'll retire tons of guys!

For us? I don't think Smits is an immediate, must retire guy. He's definitely one that in about 10 years, there will probably be a push of "Hey, why isn't his number retired!?" kind of thing that eventually pushes him over.

basketballwacko2 · Post #10 » by **basketballwacko2** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:48 am

Only one Pacer since we've been in the NBA who is in the hall of fame. His number is up there. Smits while a good player was not on that level.

Moooose · Post #11 » by **Moooose** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 10:44 am

I was wondering about this before, too. But forgot about it. Yeah, maybe he didn't reached that 'standard'. But nonetheless, I've seen his value on the court with the Pacers and will never forget his contributions.

Post #12 » by **Miller4ever** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 am

Don Buse, guys. He was pretty damn good. Led both leagues in steals and assists...could shoot...too amazing care of the ball...

I am way too high on Don Buse, no going to lie.

slicedbread2 · Post #13 » by **slicedbread2** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:08 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:we've retired very few numbers. Rik was an important part of the Reggie Miller era but only Reg's number has been retired from that era with all the other retired numbers going back to the ABA championship teams of the 70's. Given that only one number has been retired in 40 something years, no I don't think Rik meets that standard. Off the top of my head here are names to consider ahead of Rik: Freddie Lewis, Don Buse, Billy Knight, Dale Davis, Mark Jackson, Derrick McKey, Danny Granger, Jermaine O'Neal.

I'd put Rik ahead of all the other modern era guys. He's a lifelong pacer that produced. None of the other guys stayed long enough, or were proficient enough while Pacers to be retired. The way JO left and the relative short length of his career here push him down the list, if not out of the conversation.

I think they should put Smits' number up there soon as I highly doubt anybody will wear 45 again plus he spent his entire 12 year career with Indiana before injuries ravaged him.

I have to ask regarding Jermaine O'Neal what did he do wrong besides the brawl? Did he burn some bridges before he got traded to Toronto or something?

Wizop · Post #14 » by **Wizop** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:23 pm

IMHO, the locker room was very fractured during his last days and he was the leader of one of the cliques. I think he put ego ahead of team.

Post #15 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:45 am

slicedbread2 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:we've retired very few numbers. Rik was an important part of the Reggie Miller era but only Reg's number has been retired from that era with all the other retired numbers going back to the ABA championship teams of the 70's. Given that only one number has been retired in 40 something years, no I don't think Rik meets that standard. Off the top of my head here are names to consider ahead of Rik: Freddie Lewis, Don Buse, Billy Knight, Dale Davis, Mark Jackson, Derrick McKey, Danny Granger, Jermaine O'Neal.

I'd put Rik ahead of all the other modern era guys. He's a lifelong pacer that produced. None of the other guys stayed long enough, or were proficient enough while Pacers to be retired. The way JO left and the relative short length of his career here push him down the list, if not out of the conversation.

I think they should put Smits' number up there soon as I highly doubt anybody will wear 45 again plus he spent his entire 12 year career with Indiana before injuries ravaged him.

I have to ask regarding Jermaine O'Neal what did he do wrong besides the brawl? Did he burn some bridges before he got traded to Toronto or something?

JO wasn't well liked. He showed up for practice when he felt like it and just walked out whenever. He was an "MVP guy" who was kind of coddled by Isiah. He didn't hang with teammates nor did he work with coaches to better suit the team. He did what he wanted when he wanted and you should feel blessed just to know him.

Wizop · Post #16 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:03 pm

and one lead Star columnist felt so blessed and took a lot of short cuts in getting information about the team gladly publishing what JO told him as if it were gospel.

Clutch31 · Post #17 » by **Clutch31** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:26 am

Cleveland Cavs wrote:Do you feel like he deserved it?

I feel he does. He was an important piece of the puzzle during the 90's when this club grew big and competed on a high level.