Might have to agree with Mark Cuban, sadly...

[Lazlo4D]

The other day Mark Cuban accused EC teams of always aiming low because the bar has been so low in the Eastern Conference. So I compiled a list of Indiana Pacer moves the last 8+ years and I hate to say it but I MUST AGREE

Were we just the only competion in the East except for the Miami Heat those few years and that led to a false sense of accomplishment? The rest of the East was just that bad.

Sadly I can see why Paul George would have little confidence in the Pacers in being anything but mediocre. The Kawhi Leonard trade really started the dominos for PG leaving.

Judge for yourself...

2009/10
Drafted Tyler Hansbrough in the 1st and AJ Price in the 2nd
Passed on Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, Taj Gibson, Toney Douglas, Danny Green
Signed Dahntay Jones, Solomon Jones, Earl Watson, Luther Head as FA's
Waive Jamaal Tinsley & Travis Diener
Season 32-50 - HC Jim O'Brien

2010/11
Draft Paul George and Lance Stepheson
Pacers trade Troy Murphy and get Darren Collison and James Posey
Jan - Fire HC Jim O'Brien (17-27) and hire Frank Vogel (20-18)
Season 37-45 - Lost in first round of playoffs - HC Jim O'Brien/Frank Vogel

2011/12
Drafted Kawhi Leonard in the 1st round
Trade Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - THIS ONE REALLY HURTS…
Signed David West as a free agent.
Trade Brandon Rush to the Warriors for Lou Amundson & a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Luka Mitrovic)
Season 42-24 - Lost in second round of playoffs - HC Frank Vogel

2012/13
Larry Bird steps down as Pacers President
Drafted Miles Plumlee in the 1st round (26th pick)
Pass on Draymond Green, Jae Crowder
Signed D.J. Augustin & Gerald Green as a free agent.
Traded Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones to the Dallas Mavericks for Ian Mahinmi.
Season 49-32 - Lost in ECF to Miami - HC Frank Vogel

2013/14
Larry Bird returns
Drafted Solomon Hill in the 1st round, Colton Iverson in the 2nd
Signed Chris Copeland as a free agent.
Traded Gerald Green, Miles Plumlee and a 2014 1st(Bogdan Bogdanovic) to the Suns for Luis Scola.
Feb - Traded Danny Granger and a 2015 2nd(Luka Mitrovic) to the 76ers for Lavoy Allen and Evan Turner.
Season 56-26 - Lost in ECF to Miami - HC Frank Vogel

2014/15
No 1st round pick. Drafted Louis Labeyrie in the 2nd round (57th pick) of the 2014 NBA Draft.
Signed Shayne Whittington, CJ Miles, & Rodney Stuckey.
Paul George is injured playing for Team USA
Season 38-44 - HC Frank Vogel
HC Frank Vogel fired - hired Nate McMillan

2015/16
Drafted Myles Turner in the 1st, Joe Young in the 2nd
Traded Roy Hibbert to the Los Angeles Lakers for a 2019 2nd round draft pick.
Traded Damjan Rudez to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Chase Budinger.
Signed Monta Ellis & Jordan Hill to a multi-year contracts.
Traded a 2019 2nd round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Rakeem Christmas. (Lakers 2nd round pick)
Season 45-37 - Lost 1st Round - HC Nate McMillan

2016/17
Larry Bird leaves...

[basketballwacko2]

You left out the 2016-17 off seasons, traded #1 pick 20th for Thad Young, Traded George Hill for Teague, signed Al Jefferson.

2017 Bird quits.

Also you said that the Kahwi Leonard deal with the beginning of the problems. No that was not it was the Draft in 2009. The Pacers needed a point guard badly, they had Tinsely and TJ Ford, both crap. They could have as you said taken Teague, Lawson or Holiday. If they had taken Teague there would have been no need to trade for George Hill in 2011 and Leonard would be a Pacers.

You rightly point out that the pick of Plumlee was nonsensical. They could have and should have taken Dre Green. Then the 2013 draft they pick Solo Hill even though they had Granger and George, and they passed on a big Frenchman named Rudy something? Gobert that's it.

Can you imagine:

Teague
Leonard
George
any PF
Gobert

Any bench at all and it's Katy bar the door!!

[SmashMouthRod]

As a disgruntled pacers fan, I still appreciate the fact that Larry gave us three great years. We were a contender for two years and our window closed. It happens. He was able to hit on more picks than he missed on. I can agree that the hansborough pick was abysmal. And that the miles plumlee pick was another disapointing moment. But outside of those two drafts we selected quality players. Free agent acquisitions were another story. Indy struggles to get free agents. So I gave them a pass on not being able to get guys who could've taken us over the edge. Yes the Leonard trade was bad in hindsight. But George hill gaves us three years of very good play outside of his shrinking in the heat match-ups. Not sure kawhi could've gotten Indy over those humps either. But he was a miss for sure . the east has been lackluster but Paul was spoiled. We have been relevant since his rookie year up until last year. Can't blame him for wanting to win. We made a couple lackluster moves that led to his unhappiness. Couple that with Larry changing the playnstyle without truly upgrading the personnel to make it work. If Indy was a big market we likely wouldve attracted good free agents to go with the solid drafting which would have given us a fair shot at a title.

[Lazlo4D]

Also you said that the Kahwi Leonard deal with the beginning of the problems. No that was not it was the Draft in 2009. The Pacers needed a point guard badly, they had Tinsely and TJ Ford, both crap. They could have as you said taken Teague, Lawson or Holiday. If they had taken Teague there would have been no need to trade for George Hill in 2011 and Leonard would be a Pacers.

You're right, one bad decision, led to other bad decisions to correct the previous ones:

In 2008, they had 2 picks in the first round (Bayless, Hibbert) and have easily taken Roy Hibbert & George Hill
In 2009, they desparately needed a PG but take Tyler Hansbrough, why? Could of easily taken Teague.
In 2010, drafted Paul George and Lance Stephenson
In 2011, draft Kawhi Leonard and NOT trade him

Kawhi Leonard, David West, Danny Granger, Hibbert, George Hill, George Teague, Paul George and Lance Stephenson

2012, if they would have drafted Draymond Green(he went 2nd rnd) instead of Miles Plumlee... Yea all these "small" players would have never worked

[boomershadow]

We've made some good moves and made some pretty bad ones. That's just how it works. I look around the NBA and see a lot of teams doing much less well. I think we're lucky to have some solid prospects to pin our hopes for the future on. Not all teams can say that. With all due respect to the Mavs organization, but it's not like they've set the league on fire themselves after some of the moves they've made since 2011. I think we've seen some adversity (Paul George injury, David West's departure, Roy's descent into mediocrity, Paul's trade) and met them head on with some hope for the future. I think we've got an interesting foundation to build on.

It sucks that Paul's gone. It sucks that we didn't put a better team around him when we could have. It sucks we didn't grab Jeff Teague when we could have, but we can't change it now. Right now we got a young team ready to show what they got. Internal development, guys stepping up, and giving players a chance to make a bigger name for themselves is what made us a conference finalist kind of team to begin with. That's what we got to hope can work for us again.

[Miller4ever]

Dude, some of these passes are just unfair. Did you count the number of other teams that ALSO passed on those players and what conference they were in?

[Miller4ever]

The "what-if" game is a fruitless endeavor because even GSW could be even better than they are today.

Mark isn't talking about the Pacers. He's talking about (going back to the years you've included) the 76ers, the Knicks, the Hornets, the Nets, the Cavs without Lebron. Looks at their draft positions and their picks. Look at their front office woes.

Let's take 2011. Here's the breakdown:

1: Kyrie Irving - EAST
2: Derrick Williams - WEST
3: Enes Kanter - WEST
4: Tristan Thompson - EAST
5: Jonas Valanciunas - EAST
6: Jan Vesely - EAST
7: Bismack Biyombo - EAST
8: Brandon Knight - EAST
9: Kemba Walker - EAST
10: Jimmer Fredette - WEST
11: Klay Thompson - WEST
12: Alec Burks - WEST
13 & 14: Morris Twins - WEST
15: Kawhi - WEST

Split right down the middle. The best picks before Kawhi? East teams. The got two all-stars and many starters. The West drafted Enes Kanter, Jimmer, and Burks.

Of course Bird wasn't perfect, but he's not part of the group Cuban is calling out.

[Wizop]

I hated the Plumlee pick but he's still in the league and lots of players taken higher are not. sure we've whiffed. everyone does. to say we weren't trying is nonsense,

personally I think the effects of travel are underappreciated. when we go West, the game is hours later body time. when teams go East, the game is hours earlier body time.

[tocooks101]

We also didn't pick Kawhi, we picked him on behalf of the Spurs but the deal was already done. Larry has stated we likely would not have taken him if we kept the pick as we had PG and Granger.

Getting PG at 10, Lance in the 2nd, getting Collison, dumping Murphy and hiring Vogel is probably the best offseason we have ever had. I don't get the point of this thread.

[Boneman2]

We also didn't pick Kawhi, we picked him on behalf of the Spurs but the deal was already done. Larry has stated we likely would not have taken him if we kept the pick as we had PG and Granger.

Getting PG at 10, Lance in the 2nd, getting Collison, dumping Murphy and hiring Vogel is probably the best offseason we have ever had. I don't get the point of this thread.

Larry also had Kawhi ranked 5th on his board it was just that Granger and George made it easier for him to justify trading Kawhi for George Hill.

I don't know if it has been mentioned but I thought the Scola trade was stupid as hell. Essentially two late 1sts and Green for Scola. Then to top it off Gerald had a respectable season while Scola made Hibbert look agile.

[Boneman2]

As far as Mark Cuban complaining about the disparity between conferences it is vital to note that the Mavericks had a 14-16 record against the Eastern Conf this past season. HIs team is not very good in either conference. Maybe he should focus on his team.

[tocooks101]

We also didn't pick Kawhi, we picked him on behalf of the Spurs but the deal was already done. Larry has stated we likely would not have taken him if we kept the pick as we had PG and Granger.

Getting PG at 10, Lance in the 2nd, getting Collison, dumping Murphy and hiring Vogel is probably the best offseason we have ever had. I don't get the point of this thread.

Larry also had Kawhi ranked 5th on his board it was just that Granger and George made it easier for him to justify trading Kawhi for George Hill.

Doesnt matter, when we went to make the pick it was whom ever SA told us to pick.

[Boneman2]

We also didn't pick Kawhi, we picked him on behalf of the Spurs but the deal was already done. Larry has stated we likely would not have taken him if we kept the pick as we had PG and Granger.

Getting PG at 10, Lance in the 2nd, getting Collison, dumping Murphy and hiring Vogel is probably the best offseason we have ever had. I don't get the point of this thread.

Larry also had Kawhi ranked 5th on his board it was just that Granger and George made it easier for him to justify trading Kawhi for George Hill.

Doesnt matter, when we went to make the pick it was whom ever SA told us to pick.

And it just so happens Pop picked who Larry would have picked.

[tocooks101]

Larry also had Kawhi ranked 5th on his board it was just that Granger and George made it easier for him to justify trading Kawhi for George Hill.

Doesnt matter, when we went to make the pick it was whom ever SA told us to pick.

And it just so happens Pop picked who Larry would have picked.

Unfortunately there is no way to know that.

[Boneman2]

Doesnt matter, when we went to make the pick it was whom ever SA told us to pick.

And it just so happens Pop picked who Larry would have picked.

Unfortunately there is no way to know that.

Here's an article with quotes from Morway:

http://grantland.com/features/analyzing-kawhi-leonard-george-hill-trade-2013-conference-finals/

The Pacers swallowed hard and agreed. There was still one problem left: Indiana loved Kawhi Leonard. The Pacers had him about no. 5 or no. 6 on their draft board, and they thought very hard about scrapping the Hill deal and just taking a guy they never expected to be alive at no. 15. “When Kawhi ended up being there, we had to think about taking him,” Morway says. “But we already had Danny Granger and Paul George. That’s what made it a little easier for us.”

[Wizop]

The trade was win win for quite a while. Kahwi kept improving. We changed systems and decided he didn't fit which was arguably a bigger mistake than the first trade.

Sent from my 831C using RealGM mobile app

[Pacers_Freak]

Sure we have made mistakes on some picks. Everyone has. Many people passed on Green and Leonard. It is revisionist history. While some of our moves have not worked, I certainly don't think the FO was aiming low because we are in the East. We aren't who Cuban was referring to.