NOP/DET/IND

[Guzman_9]

NOP Out: Hill, Moore, 4
NOP In: Drummond

Why?
They get an Allstar Center to pair with Zion and the rest of the crew.
Holiday
Ball
Ingram
Zion
Drummond

DET Out: Drummond, Jackson
DET In: Hill, Moore, 4, 50

Why?
They cut salary to sign more players to put around Griffin and obtain the 4th pick.

IND Out: Mcdermott, 50
IND In: Jackson

Why?
If they strike out in FA then they can target Jackson for a plug PG and then obtain even more salary cap for 2020.

Why?

[Scoot McGroot]

As I said in the trade forum, I’d rather use the $11m in salary difference towards a Pat Beverley for 2 or 3 years, or towards a Collison/Wes Matthews package for 1 year, keep Doug, and draft someone like an Iggy at 50. Jackson is relatively replacement level for me, and with the amount of replacement level PG’s likely available for the MLE this summer, I’d rather just look elsewhere.

[Wizop]

plus, we're in no position to move Douggie until we know Bogie's status.

[Scoot McGroot]

plus, we're in no position to move Douggie until we know Bogie's status.

ANd, we’ve talked for years about needing shooting. We’ve got a great one right now and we’re not using him. Let’s figure that out.

[Wizop]

plus, we're in no position to move Douggie until we know Bogie's status.

ANd, we’ve talked for years about needing shooting. We’ve got a great one right now and we’re not using him. Let’s figure that out.

agreed. there was no valid reason to just have him stand on the wing waiving his arms. if Bogie gets an offer in the 20's, I'd be comfortable starting Doug and bringing our FRP along behind him.

[pacers33granger]

I hope our FO has no interest in Jackson. I'd strongly prefer to just let Holiday have the starting spot, sign a one year vet like Shelvin Mack, and use the cap space to take on money for assets if we get literally nothing in free agency.

[Wizop]

I hope our FO has no interest in Jackson. I'd strongly prefer to just let Holiday have the starting spot, sign a one year vet like Shelvin Mack, and use the cap space to take on money for assets if we get literally nothing in free agency.

why not a short contract for CoJo or DC? either has plusses over Mack. of course, Mack could be much cheaper which would be a consideration if we need to spend a lot elsewhere.

[pacers33granger]

I hope our FO has no interest in Jackson. I'd strongly prefer to just let Holiday have the starting spot, sign a one year vet like Shelvin Mack, and use the cap space to take on money for assets if we get literally nothing in free agency.

why not a short contract for CoJo or DC? either has plusses over Mack. of course, Mack could be much cheaper which would be a consideration if we need to spend a lot elsewhere.

If we're operating over the cap, sure why not. Give them a big 1 year deal and let Holiday develop. But if we're using cap space? I'd prefer not. See if we can get an asset from a team looking to dump some money. If we're striking out on free agency I'd just prefer to try to gain something elsewhere over a retread that's going to be gone in a year.

Mack is not good, but was really just an off the top of my head suggestion as a minimum type guy who has been around at least.

[Wizop]

Mack is not good

understood. he's not good, but he's also not bad. I'd call him serviceable. we should be able to get a serviceable point guard for the veteran minimum which could be all we need if we're ready to give Holiday 24 minutes.

[Scoot McGroot]

Mack is not good

understood. he's not good, but he's also not bad. I'd call him serviceable. we should be able to get a serviceable point guard for the veteran minimum which could be all we need if we're ready to give Holiday 24 minutes.

If you're looking at vet minimum, you're gonna get 3rd string PG caliber guys. Backup caliber guys are going to be north of $4m, I picture. Minimum guys are going to be pure reclamation projects, undrafted guys, and completely unproven guys. The Isiah Thomas', Ray Felton's, Chasson Randle's of the world, if you will.

[pacers33granger]

Mack is not good

understood. he's not good, but he's also not bad. I'd call him serviceable. we should be able to get a serviceable point guard for the veteran minimum which could be all we need if we're ready to give Holiday 24 minutes.

If you're looking at vet minimum, you're gonna get 3rd string PG caliber guys. Backup caliber guys are going to be north of $4m, I picture. Minimum guys are going to be pure reclamation projects, undrafted guys, and completely unproven guys. The Isiah Thomas', Ray Felton's, Chasson Randle's of the world, if you will.

To clarify my position, I totally agree and those are the types of guys I'd prefer if we're operating under the cap and strike out horribly over someone like Jackson. I'd have cap space + Mack, Felton, whoever > Jackson for our purposes this coming year. If all it gets us is a Meyers Leonard type and 2nds, I'd still have it as a better option than Jackson.

[Scoot McGroot]

understood. he's not good, but he's also not bad. I'd call him serviceable. we should be able to get a serviceable point guard for the veteran minimum which could be all we need if we're ready to give Holiday 24 minutes.

If you're looking at vet minimum, you're gonna get 3rd string PG caliber guys. Backup caliber guys are going to be north of $4m, I picture. Minimum guys are going to be pure reclamation projects, undrafted guys, and completely unproven guys. The Isiah Thomas', Ray Felton's, Chasson Randle's of the world, if you will.

To clarify my position, I totally agree and those are the types of guys I'd prefer if we're operating under the cap and strike out horribly over someone like Jackson. I'd have cap space + Mack, Felton, whoever > Jackson for our purposes this coming year. If all it gets us is a Meyers Leonard type and 2nds, I'd still have it as a better option than Jackson.

Oh. Honestly, at that point, I'd rather have Jackson than Meyers/2nd. Jackson would at least stabilize the PG spot as he could platoon with Aaron for a year, rather than trying to play a Shelvin Mack 24 minutes a night every night for a full season. I just think it'd be so ugly, we'd be looking at paying to get a PG in trade later on, moreso than we got for absorbing a Leonard.

I'd really rather anything BUT a Jackson, though. I'm fine with absorbing a Leonard or whomever it is for a year if we completely strike out, but man, I'd like to see us add someone that could be here long-term.

[Wizop]

Backup caliber guys are going to be north of $4m, I picture.

4mm works. that's half of CoJo, isn't it.

[pacers33granger]

Oh. Honestly, at that point, I'd rather have Jackson than Meyers/2nd. Jackson would at least stabilize the PG spot as he could platoon with Aaron for a year, rather than trying to play a Shelvin Mack 24 minutes a night every night for a full season. I just think it'd be so ugly, we'd be looking at paying to get a PG in trade later on, moreso than we got for absorbing a Leonard.

I'd really rather anything BUT a Jackson, though. I'm fine with absorbing a Leonard or whomever it is for a year if we completely strike out, but man, I'd like to see us add someone that could be here long-term.

Personally I would not put Jackson and stability in the same sentence. He's ok when healthy, but hasn't been in forever and has had some major attitude problems. He's better than someone like Schroeder, but not by a significant amount. I don't expect Holiday to be starting material any time soon, but at least we have someone who looks like he could be a good player on the roster, so we wouldn't be Phoenix level by any means.

I'm totally with you that I'd love to bring in some guys who will be a part of something. If we can't, my preference is just to look at getting some assets. Teague wasn't bad per se, but he wasn't good for us, and he's a better player than Jackson. I'm not interested in repeating that experiment really. And to Jackson specifically, I fear he would be a poor choice to help develop our young bigs. What we'd lose in offense going from him to a Mack level guy I think we'd gain close to in letting Myles and Domas get more chances.

Ultimately I know that the FO won't share this sentiment anyways and we will end up with a vet PG one way or another, whether it's a 3rd stringer to help out Holiday/Dlo (best case scenario) or it's a low end starter like DC again to punt for another year yet again.

[Wizop]

If all it gets us is a Meyers Leonard type and 2nds, I'd still have it as a better option than Jackson.

rumor has Bucks willing to give a pick to get out from under Ilyasova. I'd do that ahead of Leonard.

[pacers33granger]

If all it gets us is a Meyers Leonard type and 2nds, I'd still have it as a better option than Jackson.

rumor has Bucks willing to give a pick to get out from under Ilyasova. I'd do that ahead of Leonard.

I hate both of them as players so it would depend on whatever pick is better. If either got minutes for us, it would either be because of injury or because the coaching staff has zero faith in TJ and he's a bust. Ilyasova is cheaper at least.

[Scoot McGroot]

If all it gets us is a Meyers Leonard type and 2nds, I'd still have it as a better option than Jackson.

rumor has Bucks willing to give a pick to get out from under Ilyasova. I'd do that ahead of Leonard.

Honestly, if a D'Lo, or other single free agent worth $20m or more in space, wasn't coming here, I'd take Illy and a pick in a second for cap space. He's no starter, but he'd be a good change of pace at the PF with trying to play Dom/Myles together more.

[pacers33granger]

If all it gets us is a Meyers Leonard type and 2nds, I'd still have it as a better option than Jackson.

rumor has Bucks willing to give a pick to get out from under Ilyasova. I'd do that ahead of Leonard.

Honestly, if a D'Lo, or other single free agent worth $20m or more in space, wasn't coming here, I'd take Illy and a pick in a second for cap space. He's no starter, but he'd be a good change of pace at the PF with trying to play Dom/Myles together more.

We'd have to wait until 2022 at least for any 2nds from Milwaukee since they burned so many on the Mirotic trade.

[Scoot McGroot]

rumor has Bucks willing to give a pick to get out from under Ilyasova. I'd do that ahead of Leonard.

Honestly, if a D'Lo, or other single free agent worth $20m or more in space, wasn't coming here, I'd take Illy and a pick in a second for cap space. He's no starter, but he'd be a good change of pace at the PF with trying to play Dom/Myles together more.

We'd have to wait until 2022 at least for any 2nds from Milwaukee since they burned so many on the Mirotic trade.

Yeah, we've already got their 2021 2nd for the deal that got us Pacers legend's Wade Baldwin and Nik Stauskas at the deadline.

Realistically, they're probably looking at either giving up their 30th overall 1st rounder this year for someone to take on Snell completely, and maybe trade down into the 2nd from there for someone to take on Illy, if that's all they can muster. I think they'd prefer Snell.

[pacers33granger]

Honestly, if a D'Lo, or other single free agent worth $20m or more in space, wasn't coming here, I'd take Illy and a pick in a second for cap space. He's no starter, but he'd be a good change of pace at the PF with trying to play Dom/Myles together more.

We'd have to wait until 2022 at least for any 2nds from Milwaukee since they burned so many on the Mirotic trade.

Yeah, we've already got their 2021 2nd for the deal that got us Pacers legend's Wade Baldwin and Nik Stauskas at the deadline.

Realistically, they're probably looking at either giving up their 30th overall 1st rounder this year for someone to take on Snell completely, and maybe trade down into the 2nd from there for someone to take on Illy, if that's all they can muster. I think they'd prefer Snell.

Yeah the Snell contract has really gummed up their books. I get the idea behind it generally, but he just has not lived up to it at all. I'm skeptical 30 will be enough, but I've been wrong numerous times before. Obviously I don't see us having any interest in him.

Personally I'd want two 2nds to take on Ilyasova. I'm not sold that we would have any real use for him and could get a comparable player cheaper in free agency. I can only imagine how bad defensively a frontcourt bench of Doug/Ily/Domas would be.