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2021 Draft Thread

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Wizop
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#161 » by Wizop » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:42 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Bummer.

Read on Twitter
?s=21
We weren't getting him this year. If we're back in the 20's next year, he might be an option.

Sent from my phone.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#162 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:22 am

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Bummer.

Read on Twitter
?s=21
We weren't getting him this year. If we're back in the 20's next year, he might be an option.

Sent from my phone.


Could’ve been a target in a potential trade down. :dontknow:

But it sounds like draftniks are saying he could be a lotto pick next year.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#163 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:25 pm

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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#164 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:34 pm

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?s=21

Good to be able to stack a lot of these guys against each other and see them on a level field.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#165 » by Wizop » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:37 pm

Here is a workout with a lot of first round guys.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#166 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm

Would you guys do Wiseman + Paschall + #7 + #14 for Sabonis + #13?
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#167 » by Wizop » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:46 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do Wiseman + Paschall + #7 + #14 for Sabonis + #13?


Per the Fanspo trade machine:

Warriors are unable to complete this trade. Since they are a taxpaying team, they are only able to take back 125% of the salary they are sending out, plus $100,000.

Warriors can only take back $13.7M in salary based on the amount they are sending out.

Cut $4.7M from the Warriors incoming trade value to make this trade successful for the Warriors.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#168 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:52 pm

Wizop wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do Wiseman + Paschall + #7 + #14 for Sabonis + #13?


Per the Fanspo trade machine:

Warriors are unable to complete this trade. Since they are a taxpaying team, they are only able to take back 125% of the salary they are sending out, plus $100,000.

Warriors can only take back $13.7M in salary based on the amount they are sending out.

Cut $4.7M from the Warriors incoming trade value to make this trade successful for the Warriors.


Edit: Wiseman + Paschall + Looney + Poole for Sabonis worked. Obviously, we'll tie in #7 and/or #14 and include Indy's #13 (Pick swap).
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#169 » by Wizop » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:08 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Edit: Wiseman + Paschall + Looney + Poole for Sabonis worked. Obviously, we'll tie in #7 and/or #14 and include Indy's #13 (Pick swap).


we don't have the roster spots to do that one. we only have 3 free agents and we don't want to lose one of them (McConnell) so we can only add two players. you have us getting two FRPs and that fills the roster. then you have us get 3 more players.

I doubt you can make it work without using Wiggins and we really don't need him. I think your best chance for Sabonis is to try to deal Wiggins to Philly with them sending us Simmons. We'd need to send you more to make it legal so make it Sabonis, Lamb, AHoliday, and the pick swap. that's legal.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#170 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:19 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:
Wizop wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do Wiseman + Paschall + #7 + #14 for Sabonis + #13?


Per the Fanspo trade machine:

Warriors are unable to complete this trade. Since they are a taxpaying team, they are only able to take back 125% of the salary they are sending out, plus $100,000.

Warriors can only take back $13.7M in salary based on the amount they are sending out.

Cut $4.7M from the Warriors incoming trade value to make this trade successful for the Warriors.


Edit: Wiseman + Paschall + Looney + Poole for Sabonis worked. Obviously, we'll tie in #7 and/or #14 and include Indy's #13 (Pick swap).


I would not, no. We don’t have room to make a 2 for 6 type deal like this. We also wouldn’t value Wiseman as return, since we’d only be dealing Sabonis to go away from the twin towers approach, and we’d still have Turner and Goga at the 5.

Realistically, go get the best return Wiseman/Paschall/Looney/Poole and come back with that other return. We’d also just demand not to include the 13 down to 14 trade down.


But, I think we’d listen to offers, hypothetically, of the 7 and 14 for Sabonis, though salary matching becomes difficult, and may require a 3rd team. Or Wiseman routed elsewhere for better fitting value along with the 7. That kind of thing. I think you’re idea just doesn’t work based on fit and roster spots.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#171 » by Topofthekey » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:59 am

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:
Wizop wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do Wiseman + Paschall + #7 + #14 for Sabonis + #13?


Per the Fanspo trade machine:

Warriors are unable to complete this trade. Since they are a taxpaying team, they are only able to take back 125% of the salary they are sending out, plus $100,000.

Warriors can only take back $13.7M in salary based on the amount they are sending out.

Cut $4.7M from the Warriors incoming trade value to make this trade successful for the Warriors.


Edit: Wiseman + Paschall + Looney + Poole for Sabonis worked. Obviously, we'll tie in #7 and/or #14 and include Indy's #13 (Pick swap).

I'm a huge fan of most Sabonis to Warriors trades

But in this scenario, you can leave #13 out, and Pacers still wouldn't do it

For one, Sabonis is valued at around #5, so it will likely take at least #5 for the trade to be considered. Also, there is a huge drop off in talent going from #5 to #7, so you will need to send plenty of value to bridge the gap, but Wiseman and #14 isn't enough

But more importantly, this trade is just a really bad fit for the Pacers

They are unlikely to trade Sabonis just to receive Wiseman as part of the return - they are better off just keeping Sabonis. If they do trade Sabonis, it's probably a signal that they want to move on from playing two bigs at the same time, so Wiseman has almost zero value to them

Also, they just spent $29m on a new win-now head coach. I doubt they'd want to trade an established All Star for picks and prospects (unless we're talking about Cade or Green, which is a different thing altogether)

And finally, as pointed out above, Pacers simply don't have the room to turn 2 players into 6

For these reasons, even though the value isn't terrible, it's almost unfixable when you take fit and direction into account

The only realistic way a Sabonis to Warriors trade can happen is if a 3rd team is brought in to take Wiseman (and likely #7 and #14 also) and provide the Pacers with what they want
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#172 » by granger05 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:10 pm

The Athletic's latest mock draft has the Pacers taking Giddey at 13, but contains this blurb:

INDIANA PACERS
League sources say the Pacers are incredibly active in trade talks involving this pick, both for deals moving into the top 10 or out of the draft entirely. If they stay here, they’re in an intriguing position with a number of options. They could draft a prospect who could help immediately or they could lean toward a slew of raw players who could pop down the line. Giddey fits into the latter category. He can bring playmaking early in his career, but with fluidity off the bounce and a great feel he could be molded into a primary source of shot creation.


I just like the bit about us being active and looking at moves both up and down.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#173 » by Tom White » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:15 pm

granger05 wrote:I just like the bit about us being active and looking at moves both up and down.


You know what is scary about this? It is like a prelude to the post-draft press conference where KP says

"There were a couple guys we were interested in but we knew they were going to be picked ahead of our selection spot. Past that, we didn't see anything interesting so we sold the pick."

I can actually just hear that.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#174 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:08 pm

Tom White wrote:"There were a couple guys we were interested in but we knew they were going to be picked ahead of our selection spot. Past that, we didn't see anything interesting so we sold the pick."

I can actually just hear that.


Sold? Traded maybe but it would be highly unusual for a team to take cash for a first round pick.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#175 » by Tom White » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:35 pm

Wizop wrote:Sold? Traded maybe but it would be highly unusual for a team to take cash for a first round pick.


Hey, even my bad scenarios think outside the box. :lol:
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#176 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:42 pm

Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:Sold? Traded maybe but it would be highly unusual for a team to take cash for a first round pick.


Hey, even my bad scenarios think outside the box. :lol:


that's certainly one way to guarantee that you can say later that you thought it would have been worse.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#177 » by granger05 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:33 pm

2013 was the last time a 1st rounder was sold. Has a lotto pick ever been sold for cash? Anyway, I always get excited about transactions and it's the offseason officially so that's the only game in town. We've got a couple expiring contracts we could move in a deal along with the pick so there are plenty of options.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#178 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:22 pm

Chad Ford has posted his tier ratings this week. He says many teams use a system like this taking the player within the appropriate tier that fits their needs. taking a player from a lower tier when a higher tier player is still on the board is a reach in this system. He says the list is made after talking to league contacts. I won't list his tier one or two names as they are the six players (three ones and three twos) we all know. Here are his tier three names. this tier is High Level Starters. Naturally there are six names so it is possible they'll all be gone at 13. In alphabetical order:

Bouknight
Giddey
Johnson
Mitchell
Segun
Wagner

In a postcast after he posted this he says Ziaire Williams is rising up his rankings. that'd make 13.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#179 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:31 pm

granger05 wrote:2013 was the last time a 1st rounder was sold. Has a lotto pick ever been sold for cash? Anyway, I always get excited about transactions and it's the offseason officially so that's the only game in town. We've got a couple expiring contracts we could move in a deal along with the pick so there are plenty of options.


I don’t think a lotto pick has been sold in the current era of the NBA. It might take going back to the pre-Stepien Rules era and the 70’s or 80’s.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#180 » by Topofthekey » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:03 pm

Wizop wrote:Chad Ford has posted his tier ratings this week. He says many teams use a system like this taking the player within the appropriate tier that fits their needs. taking a player from a lower tier when a higher tier player is still on the board is a reach in this system. He says the list is made after talking to league contacts. I won't list his tier one or two names as they are the six players (three ones and three twos) we all know. Here are his tier three names. this tier is High Level Starters. Naturally there are six names so it is possible they'll all be gone at 13. In alphabetical order:

Bouknight
Giddey
Johnson
Mitchell
Segun
Wagner

In a postcast after he posted this he says Ziaire Williams is rising up his rankings. that'd make 13.

I'll assume tier 1 is Cade, Green, and Mobley

The thing to note is, there's never been a draft where all three players taken in the top 3 end up being stars (defined here as multiple AS selections or better) - it's a statistical certainty that at least one of Cade, Green, or Mobley is going to be a bust

So if you're picking in the top 3, the job is to avoid drafting the bust

Also, odds are good that at least one or two players among the tier 3 players taken from 7 to 14 will secretly turn out to be a star, or at least considered a steal

So if you're picking between 7 to 14 (which we are), the job is to identify this one or two secret player and hope that they are available when it's your turn to pick

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